How important is the high school you attend?

Asking the great minds of the GRM board for their vast insight on higher education.

My darling daughter is currently in 10th grade at a technical hs studying CAD/Architecture, in mostly honors classes and is currently #2 in her class. She keeps on complaining how bored she is in school.

She is planning on an Architecture degree.

Should we look into private/more challenging schools for her 11/12 years or just have her stick it out where she is.

Get her into something challenging. A bored kid can turn into a troubled kid quickly. I know the hard way.

Bored teen are dangerous.Especially smart ones. I was a dumb one and I was dangerous unchallenged and bored.

I don't think the school makes that big of an impact, despite what hover parents will tell you. If you can find an agreeable situation with another school then go for it. But you can also look outside the school for mental stimulation. A lot of colleges have deals that allow students to start classes before that graduate HS. If she is looking at architecture, find professional arcatecture organizations and see what they have to offer.

MENSA? Or if she is passonate about a social cuases (or several) getting involved and being willing to do some grunt work will qucickly get them moved up.

I don't think another is the exact answer, but letting this go is probably a bad decision.

Can she start some college classes while still in HS?

monark192 wrote: Can she start some college classes while still in HS?

This. My high school allowed me to take classes through the local JC. Doing that I was able to get a couple math and english units that were actually transferrable (I've heard of a couple places were the kids/parents are told AP classes will transfer and they don't).

Find a school or program that challenges her. She will be happier and want to push herself further.

ReverendDexter wrote:

monark192 wrote: Can she start some college classes while still in HS?

This. My high school allowed me to take classes through the local JC. Doing that I was able to get a couple math and english units that were actually transferrable (I've heard of a couple places were the kids/parents are told AP classes will transfer and they don't).

Another +1.

Saves money, too. I started college with every last one of my Gen Eds done. Almost two semester's worth of credits.

I wish i made a few thousand bucks a week. Where do i sign?

Oh, and let me just chip this in: if she's going to be an architect, get her looking at the LAND she's building on.

My father's a general contractor, and he hasn't met an architect yet that understands how to build a house that actually works with the terrain of the property. What should be small jobs turn into huge ones because they have to either do huge cuts or truck in and compact hundreds of cubic yards of fill to bring things up.

If you're in the flatlands, it won't be so much of an issue, but if she's designing stuff in the hills/mountains...

ReverendDexter wrote: Oh, and let me just chip this in: if she's going to be an architect, get her looking at the LAND she's building on. My father's a general contractor, and he hasn't met an architect yet that understands how to build a house that actually works with the terrain of the property. What should be small jobs turn into huge ones because they have to either do huge cuts or truck in and compact hundreds of cubic yards of fill to bring things up. If you're in the flatlands, it won't be so much of an issue, but if she's designing stuff in the hills/mountains...

This.

I do glazing and signs, the biggest hindrance besides government permits is architects who know everything but how to make designs work in the real world.

If she's not adverse to getting dirty see if she'll be up to going to work in associated fields like glazers, mason etc.

<~~~~ is an architect.

Let's step a little farther back. When you say she's "planning on an Architecture degree", what exactly does that mean? There are Architecture degrees, and there are Architecture degrees.

If she wants to be an actual, state-licensed, practicing architect, she's pretty much going to need an minimum 5-year professional degree. Bachelor of Architecture or Bachelor of Science in Architecture - a liberal arts BA with a major in Architecture won't cut it (ask me how I know).

If she just wants to work in an architect's office as a drafter, etc. a 2-year Associates will work, but will limit her advancement options. If she likes the technical part, it is also possible now to get Bachelor degrees or better in a variety of construction-related fields. However, with the economy as it is, overqualified people are knocking down the doors, so it may be difficult to score a job in 4 years or so with just an Associates.

That aside, is she more interested in the artistic or technical aspects? Architecture has big helpings of both, which is part of what made me get into the field. But the answer to that question has bearing on what kind of architecture school she goes to, and by extension, what she does in high school.

So, I would shape the high school decisions based on her post-college goals, of course. If she is on the technical side, then I recommend she finish up here and apply to technical university programs. You can look for additional course work and AP classes to challenge her more - nothing beats going to college with a fistful of credits for crappy freshman distribution classes you won't have to take.

HOWEVER, if she is interested in the whole design portion of it, it's a different story. At most architecture design schools, they're not going to give much of a crap about the vo-technical stuff she's had in high school. It will never hurt, but it won't help all that dramatically. They're not going to assume anybody in the class has any training in architecture. They're going to start from scratch teaching her visual design basics and build up from there. If she's lucky, by halfway through she will have had 1 technical and 1 structural class. The rest will be history, theory, graphic arts, and design. That's not a bad thing - but it means that if this is her path forward, she should not put too much emphasis on the technical stuff in her current program; at least not to the detriment of a broader array of coursework.

One thing that nobody tells you ahead of time is that at least 50% of an architect's work is communication . Written, verbal, and graphic. Have her take composition courses and public speaking - she'll have to do both. I have been valuable to employers because when necessary I can write very clearly, concisely, and persuasively. That's a skill often lacking. I was very much less adept with verbal communication and presentation skills, but after 20+ years, I'm getting to be reasonable at that too.

In design school she will be required to write analysis papers, research papers, and essays. She will also be required to stand up in front of her class, her professor, and a bunch of the professor's snarky friends to explain her work out loud, then defend it when it is criticized (which it will be). She'll probably have to do this on minimal sleep, too, so any practice she can get now will be a huge advantage.

My best advice is to get her into English courses with a lot of writing composition and public speaking, and a lot of visual arts courses with sketching and painting. Anybody can be taught to draft or detail a building; what she needs help with is bringing her imagination out and generating many many artistic ideas in her work. It's hard to get past that inner editor who stops you from just throwing down options on paper as freely as possible.

I'm not minimizing the technical aspects of the training and career - I wouldn't be interested in architecture if they weren't here too. It's just that side is far easier to train into somebody. If she wants to stand out on the design side, she needs to be very expressive both in words and images. If she's headed that way, the earlier she can get a start, the better.

I went through what I consider to be a very good public school system. When I got to college, several of my professors commented on the fact that I seemed to be better prepared than a lot of my peers, many of whom had attended other schools in the area, including several private, parochial schools. I have always been proud of this.

In part because of this, I have chosen to raise my family in the same community. My oldest daughter (occasionally) attended the same high school that I did. Her results have been somewhat less impressive, casting doubt upon my perception of the whole nature/nurture thing.

Good thing she's pretty...

(No. You cannot see photos.)

I went to a very well regarded private Catholic prep school. I breezed through all of classes and graduated 7th in my class. I got accepted to and offered scholarships by every college/university I applied to.

I burned out on college in 2 years after quickly reason the path I was going down was never going to make me happy.

Make sure your kid is doing what ever she's doing because she truly likes it. Sort the practical stuff after that. My education over the course of my life has cost something like $196,000 in tuition costs alone. I do feel that I'm better off for the educational opportunities afforded me, but, from a practical standpoint, the only thing I'm going to have to show for that $196k is going into the Marines as an E2 instead of an E1.

I don't know about NJ, but SC has two "Governor's Schools" that are public schools (one of the educational things we have done right). These are high schools for exceptional students. Pretty sure they require boarding. One is arts based and the other is science based. See if you have the same options.

Check into the college course thing though. I know people that went into USC darn near as a Jr.

My High school was nothing special (except we were great at popping out babes, second highest in teen pregency in KY and KY was the second highest in the nation) but I still got a full tuition scholarship to a decent college, made it thru college with a 3.3 in Mechanical engineering and got a job right out of college in this economy. So IMHO, the high school doesn't matter as much as challenging yourself. Get involved in extracurricular activities. In high school, I played soccer, ran track, did academic team, was in Boy scouts, was involved in the local theatre and BETA club. Also I did some dating.

The smartest kid in my high school got his GED after his Sophomore year and started going to community college instead of being bored in class.

After that, he got his B.S. from a four year university in two years since all of his credits (hard science and math) transferred directly in. He had a Masters by the time most of us were finishing our four year degree, and last I checked is working for NASA.

So high school doesn't mean much if you've got the brains to do well down the road.

In my opinion high school is a place to be well-rounded and explore options. At 16 she likely doesn't really know what she wants to do, she just thinks she does. Make sure she's taking a broad array of classes and strongly encourage participation in extracurricular activities and social interactions with her peers.

I also agree that it's important to be challenged, but not just because smart kids should be pushed to do more, because it's so important it to learn good study skills. I graduated 3rd in my HS class with no studying and effort, graduated with honors from undergrad with minimal effort and barely attending classes senior year, then got to law school and had no idea how to study and learn things. I still graduated with honors from a top 20 law school, but my career options suffered because I didn't have good guidance on what to do (first in my family to graduate from college). My kids are constantly hearing the importance of good study skills, especially my older one who is more likely to be able to coast through school with zero effort and straight As.

My job is to retrain workers for new careers. My #1 source of out-of-work people is an Architecture / CAD Drafting / Construction. The field is very, very over-saturated. We have people with Bachelor's degrees in Architecture with 10-15 years of experience happy to work for minimum wage doing remodel work. I haven't seen a single job opening for a CAD Drafter in 5 years.

I'd have a very serious talk with her about maybe choosing a different vocation...

(Note - I went to a normal public HS with a lot of technical and vocational classes, took 4 years of AutoCad/Drafting and 4 years of Engineering classes there, and originally went to college to be a Mechanical Engineer. I changed major the first day when I went to my AutoCad/drafting class and saw that it was in an auditorium with over 400 students, at a small school. This was 9 years ago...)

Javelin wrote: (Note - I went to a normal public HS with a lot of technical and vocational classes, took 4 years of AutoCad/Drafting and 4 years of Engineering classes there, and originally went to college to be a Mechanical Engineer. I changed major the first day when I went to my AutoCad/drafting class and saw that it was in an auditorium with over 400 students, at a small school. This was 9 years ago...)

WOW. I had 30 people in my CAD class at university.

I think the market for base level CAD people is pretty thin. On the other hand there is some demand for CAD designers - people who can do more than just create the drawings. They aren't full fledged engineers but they need to know how to lay things out and do some of the calculations. I know my firm has a couple openings right now.

Just to add some more info, She is involved with student council, winter track, cross country, softball, swimming and 4H. She is looking at the 5 year plan for the Architecture degree and already looking for schools. The hs told her no college courses till 11th grade.

Lots of good advice so far, thanks.

Where do you live (state, anyway) and what schools is she considering?

BBsGarage wrote: Just to add some more info, She is involved with student council, winter track, cross country, softball, swimming and 4H. She is looking at the 5 year plan for the Architecture degree and already looking for schools. The hs told her no college courses till 11th grade. Lots of good advice so far, thanks.

Damn, you should be a proud parent, sounds like you're doing it right..

BBsGarage wrote: She is involved with student council, winter track, cross country, softball, swimming and 4H.

Does she, uh, have a life?

Serious question.

Wonkothesane wrote: I probably would have dropped out of HS at 16, gotten a GED and then went to do Comp Sci or Mech. Eng. or something of the sort, getting a 2 year jump on my peers..

Again, I am a certified vocational re-trainer... You would be surprised how many higher-up positions that move would have cost you. GED does not equal a real HSD, no matter what they try and tell you. I've worked with a guy who had a BS from a good state school not get hired for a job because he had a GED instead of a HSD. It happens, and a lot more often than you would think.