How is your economy?

bearmtnmartin wrote: "snip"

Welcome to the oilpatch!

Notice how I didn't say anything about working in the patch? I talked about working at construction plant sites. No offense to your friend, but if he didn't know about spring breakup, well...

I actually find it kind of offensive that somebody would suggest I'm blowing smoke up someone's ass who (no offense SvRex) is pretty friggin' old and suggesting he move away from his family. Do you think I want him to? No! But barely struggling to make ends meet isn't a way to live either.

I never said it's easy. Some of the work is friggin' hard, I've done it. It gets down to -50*C up there on a regular basis in the winter.

I don't do it because it sucks, but if I was poor, nearly destitute/bankrupt or not making it anywhere in life because I couldn't get a leg up or looking at retiring on kraft dinner... well, here is your leg up. It'll require you to sacrifice two years of your life 2 weeks at a time. There will be plenty of days where it sucks. But I can tell you it is EASIER work than ANY residential construction job I've ever had (along with much safer), and you get paid an honest $30/h (6 hours straight time, 5 hours time and a half in an 11 hour day, so 13.5 hours at 30/h = $405/day). End of story. You can go look at the union pay rates as they post them on the camp walls, including how much of your money goes towards paying your part of benefits and what not.

Thats the cool thing about unions, they work in your favour. No-one in the patch (besides tradesmen, but not roughnecks) are unionized. Oil patch/rig work is the dirtiest, crappiest work where most lowlifes go. I'd never tell anyone to go work there.

I'm pretty friggin' old?? WTF??

I intend to be productive when I'm twice this age, and am thoroughly confident I can work circles around most guys half my age, so get the berkeley off my lawn, you lazy good for nothing young wippersnapper!

No seriously, I appreciate the input. I asked, you responded. It is very helpful.

Don't mind working hard, or living on the road, but I will probably not pursue this option too far. It's a bit too radical with minimal security, and my priority is my family. Sometimes that means short term sacrifice, but this sounds too likely to be short term gains for long term trials. I'm gonna stick with what I am doing for now, until a better opportunity opens for my whole family.

Thanks HiTemp!

Here in the Marcellus Shale area, things seem to be going well. I am only judging by what I see around me, but the number of new businesses, trucks on the road and people from Texas and Louisiana around here means something is going on. I see lots of pipe, fracking fluids and wellhead equipment moving around too. I also see lots of new corporate offices related to gas, advertisements for the gas companies, and ads for job openings. That's all putting money into someone's pocket somewhere, I just hope the average Joe is getting a cut and some job prospects.

Oilpatch sounds like a good gig for the young single guy, make the big money through the boom or until you burn out and wanna settle down or do something else. Oh yea, and berkeleying bank it all.

Around SW Pa. Marcellus Shale sites are paying $20+/- per hr for CDL waste haulers and around $25/ hr for typical skilled trades labor. Oil/ gas specific skilled labor is higher but most come in from out of state.

pinchvalve wrote: I also see lots of new corporate offices related to gas, advertisements for the gas companies, and ads for job openings. That's all putting money into someone's pocket somewhere

No, it's just taking money out. The only reason these jobs can even exist is that our economy is already so thoroughly berkeleyed with regard to the overuse of energy and failure to develop alternatives to fossil fuels. Twenty years ago nobody would have considered going to such extremes to extract gas/oil because it never could have been profitable, and there was at least some consideration of the environmental risks involved. To see jobs like oil sands extraction and fracking operations as a sign of positive economic development is foolish. It's the beginning of the end of the economy as we know it, and so many idiots are STILL demonizing efforts to either reduce fossil fuel use or develop viable alternatives. I like burning gas for fun as much as anyone here, but I still can't believe the degree to which we collectively have our heads buried in the (oil?) sand on this issue.

Wow Mguar, is there anything that you aren't an expert on?

In reply to mguar:

I really don't want to have an off topic argument here, but shut the berkeley up and quit wasting the letters available from your keyboard. Quit "window shop" replying to a topic you have no clue on.

Yes, nursing homes do care for people other then the elderly, but in proportional terms, the elderly are 90+% of that population.

You want to talk low wages, thank your government, which we do NOT have control over, for that. When you have a 5k a month private pay nursing home bill for which the government will only give 2k for, you cut corners or expect to be out of business, since 90% of the population is on Medicare/Medicaid. That is a reason a CNA barely makes over $10/hr, and normally it is $8/hr, for easily $15/hr worth of work. As to your example, a Master's in what? Art/music appreciation? Pre-American Civil War architecture? Did they not want to remain in their studied field? Oh, and if she is giving out meds, I hope she doesn't get sued for being out of the scope of practice of the state nursing laws, because it sure sounds like it.......

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to mguar: I really don't want to have an off topic argument here, but shut the berkeley up and quit wasting the letters available from your keyboard.

Is that really called for?

Chill out.

Josh wrote: but I still can't believe the degree to which we collectively have our heads buried in the (oil?) sand on this issue.

You are ridiculous. Maybe before spewing forth whatever garbage you so see fit about something you don't know anything about, why don't you take a trip and see for yourself? Oh wait, you can post google maps images of those dastardly tailings ponds...

You guys aren't mining oil sands down in the US. Our industry is nothing like yours. This area of Canada was a destitute wasteland covered in E36 M3ty wood not fit to be used anywhere, most of the land being covered in muskeg. Sites have already been reclaimed, and all projects must toe very strict environmental guidelines.

But hey, you are an expert on it, considering you obviously work in the industry...the fact that you put oilsands and fracking side by side (it would seem) goes to show this (wish there was a rofl smilie).

In reply to dculberson:

I'm sorry, but his posts are getting old, especially when I am consistently quoted and I am "wrong".

Our economy has been quite good for the whole last decade thanks to oil. My wife is a geologist that says "go drill there, you'll find oil, trust me" and she's pretty damn good at getting it right. We found ourselves in the very lucky position of leaving college right at the time when the industry was starting a long term boom which we're still riding. Some of life is about innate gifts and very hard work, some of it is just about being lucky enough to be alive at the right time to get to use them.
If you can stand living in Houston, it's a good place to work right now, and if you have the right skills, double bonus for you.

I was finished with this thread, so I guess you guys can have it to insult each over pay scales in nursing homes. No, really.....go ahead! I insist....go ahead! take it!

HiTempguy wrote: You are ridiculous. Maybe before spewing forth whatever garbage you so see fit about something you don't know anything about,

I think you may be reading something in to my post that isn't really there. It probably came across as a bit angrier than I intended. I lumped together oil sands and fracking not because I think they're the same thing technically, but because they were both brought up in the thread already and they are similar in that they are both relatively extreme methods of extracting energy from the earth that are seeing rapid growth, and we probably wouldn't do either if the energy weren't in such high demand and short supply. I'm not saying they should shut down the operations, or that companies are evil for pursuing these methods, I just don't see it as a sign of a bright future that the energy we all use/need is finally expensive and scarce enough to make these operations a good investment. I know that a lot of individuals and places are going to benefit from such work, but I think it would be a better sign of the health of the economy as a whole if they didn't need to exist. I'm sure you know better than I do what the actual effects of mining oil sands are or will be, but you have to admit it's not the easiest, cheapest, or cleanest way to get oil out of the ground.

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to dculberson: I'm sorry, but his posts are getting old, especially when I am consistently quoted and I am "wrong".

I agree with that sentiment, sorry for picking on you to calm down, but it's obvious we're not going to get him to back away from the keyboard. :-)

Ranger50 wrote: You want to talk low wages, thank your government, which we do NOT have control over, for that. When you have a 5k a month private pay nursing home bill for which the government will only give 2k for, you cut corners or expect to be out of business....

Your example has the govt. footing the bill for 40% of this hypothetical nursing home resident's bill. And you're asking for more? I didn't know you were a socialist too, welcome aboard!

bearmtnmartin wrote: In reply to Ranger50: I understand what you are saying, but I supose my initial post was a bit of a rant against the oil patch taking all the strong backs. When the economy generally was shaky, I could choose from 50 applicants. Now I can choose from-as of this morning 5-. This is not a case of demanding unreasonable qualifications, because ultimately I am looking for a labourer with potential. And I am a very small outfit and I wil happily train the right guy. But they have to apply in order to be considered. And I cannot pay the same as Shell and BP for a labouring job and expect to stay in business. I am not even sure more money would help, as I am offering well above the average.

Hire someone younger who wants the chance to learn.......if you do this right, you'll end up with an employee that sticks around forever.

In reply to pres589:

Actually, no. I want the government paying the bills to GTFOOTW. Either you will have it or you won't or some other entity, not the government, will "save" you for a risk of pennies to actual dollar. This is why it is 5k plus a month to house your relatives in "the home". The governement is only going to pay so much no matter how much you really put forth in effort. So, for every private/insurance pay out there, they subsidize the rest of the underpaying residents in the home. I am also not saying insurance pays much more then government, but they "SEEM" to be more receptive to changes in patient condition and subsequent charges associated to that care.

Trolling comment deleted.