How long is this going to take?

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

oldsaw wrote:

fast_eddie_72 wrote: People say things about Politicians they don't like. It's not a good thing. We're all Americans and really, shouldn't stoop to name calling when we're talking about things we *say* are important issues.

You could have helped reverse the trend - by never starting this thread. And yet, you did..... The tit-for-tat playground antics are useless, unless one has an unlimited supply of tat.

Well, maybe. I was trying to make a bit of a light hearted observation. I guess I should be clear- I don't really think the Republicans should have done something about the economy already. It was intended to be an observation about people's expectations. I think they can be a bit unrealistic.

Your intentions were humor - understood. But when prefaced with your positions on other things "political", it's easy to misdiagnose intent. People have unrealistic expectations because they have been manipulated to expect them. Just sayin'.....

No matter one's political leanings, the painful truth is that our current economic malaise (and many other issues) are directly attributed to BOTH parties. Both wars, the housing-bubble and failures in health care/finance are the result of collaborative efforts between ALL the players who infest DC.

Look at Tuesday's election results as an American wake-up call that (this time) Democratic policy isn't wanted and Republicans got a temporary reprieve to redeem themselves. It's a reversal from the 2006 mid-terms when the R's lost Congressional control and 2008 when Democrats gained even larger majorities - and the White House.

Now, voters are PISSED!

The twenty-percenters on the outer fringes (and the politicians who court their support) get way too much attention and ignore the remaing sixty percent at their own peril.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

oldsaw wrote: The tit-for-tat playground antics are useless, unless one has an unlimited supply of tat.

You forgot the w in tats. That way its a playground full of tits and... nevermind.

I didn't forget, GPS.

I only schwing one way, so if I have the tat I'm rewarded with OEM w's.

914Driver wrote:

Cone Junky said: We need jobs! OK, how about I try to keep major AMERICAN manufacturers alive and employing people?

Maybe I'm confused again, it happens. I heard Obama wants to get out of Dodge after the election by flying to India. Some joked that he wanted to visit a Mosque, I dunno. I live hear the original General Electric site which is now a pretty big company, maybe you've heard of it. The talking head this morning said Mr. President was bringing with him to India 250 businessman and rattled off a few names including the head of GE. I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican, some times my medication doesn't kick in and a few times I have been "detained for my own safety" but what do you think about this? Dan

What do I think about the President travelling abroad? Improving international relations has been one of Obama's strongest assets. Korea, China, and India are very significant players in international politics and economics. Thank goodness he is taking the time to "vacation" around the world. Although, being that he is taking hundreds of business people with him, it's far from a vacation. I guess he could spend 2/3 of his Presidency hanging out at his ranch in Texas...

Before the cost thing gets regurgitated from AM radio- read this- http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/11/obamas-india-trip----not-as-expensive-as-you-may-have-heard/1

In reply to Cone_Junky:

With any good luck, Obama's trip will result in GE buying, importing and installing Indian technologies in the PRC. You guys need every possible revenue stream to cover the losses incurred by encouraging businesses to leave the state.

Maybe GE will even pay it's "fair share" in state and federal taxes, too!

oldsaw wrote: In reply to Cone_Junky: With any good luck, Obama's trip will result in GE buying, importing and installing Indian technologies in the PRC. You guys need every possible revenue stream to cover the losses incurred by encouraging businesses to leave the state. Maybe GE will even pay it's "fair share" in state and federal taxes, too!

Yep…I’m a lifetime native of California and I literally Browned my Boxer when I woke up yesterday to find the election results. We didn’t even pass the ballot measure to stop the Cap & Trade initiative until our unemployment rate was lower.

The PRC is soooooooooooooo Berkley’d

In reply to RX Reven':

Cap and Trade initiative? This is why elections get nothing done. Voters don't even know what they are voting on

SB32 is a California Greenhouse Gas Intiative, Cap and Trade is a completely different national policy. Luckily the majority of California understood what it was all about and understood where the money came from to stop it (Texas oil companies!!!!!). It went down in flames....without any greenhouse gasses emitted of course.

In reply to Cone_Junky:

Elections "get nothing done" because of deflection from core issues.

By enacting sweeping social reforms and regulations, California has placed itself (and it's citizens) in a desperate financial position. But, instead of curbing (then reducing) spending, the state (empowered by its' voters) continues to race down a path towards certain fiscal failure.

It's the blind-leading-the-blind syndrome, regardless of the merit of good intentions.

In reply to oldsaw:

Don't you think it is the voter's obligation to know what happens when you check that box? Voting according to the shiny paper your party sent you in the mailbox is the blind leading the blind.

Ignorance is not a deflection. It's ignorance

In reply to Cone_Junky:

Deflection is ignoring the core issues that are destroying the economy of your state and diverting discussion to a different topic.

Ignorance is failing to see deflection is a tool of desperation, and to contine using it.

Why is considering the environment a deflection? The reality is that we are progressing at a rate much higher then environment can keep up with. Waiting for some magical (and unobtainable) unemployment rate to happen before we care is deflection, almost literally.

It's a moot point because 62% of voters actually read what the bill was and voted it down.

In reply to Cone_Junky:

The environment is a deflection; it's very important but not the issue brought into question.

Your failure to recognize the consequences (and viable resolution) of California's disastrous fiscal performance was the matter of discussion.

Any response that addresses a different subject is a deflection.

You're assumng that the economy is the ONLY issue we have. Environmental restrictions are far from our only problem. What did I fail to recognize as CA's disastorous fiscal performance? We did pass a prop to hold back pay on politicians when the d-bags in Sacremento can't balance a budget and we also passed a prop that would make it politically possible to actually pass the budget. We have a pretty good grasp on what is wrong in CA. Our problem is taking the power away from lobbyist and unions. But that's the same on the National level.

BTW- The green house emmisions initiative was signed into law by our Republican Governer.

I hate CA smog laws, they seriously restrict the fun-factor of my cars. But we can't keep ignoring reality.

It's sucks to be on the forefront of environmental restrictions and laws, but the nation should watch closely, because these will be Federal soon enough. This state and country is not entitled to E36 M3 all over our planet. We can ignore the consequences, but then it will be a lot more costly when we are living in scenes from Mad Max and Waterworld.

My only point was to inform the other poster that he didn't vote for what he thought he did. So therefore, we should all read the voter pamphlet that gets sent to us and do rersearch on each proposition. I leave a lot of bubbles blank on my ballot because I know it is my obligation to be informed before I make a decision that effects others. If I don't understand the prop or know who the candidate is...no vote. No person, party, "news" channel, AM radio station, or postcard dictates my vote.

One thing to bear in mind when talking about California: while, no doubt, there are significant problems to address, the "liberal thinking" that has guided California for the several decades has built an economy that is the eighth largest on Earth. California alone generates 13% of the US GDP. All that even though they carry one of the highest tax burdens of any state in the country.

oldsaw wrote: Your intentions were humor - understood. But when prefaced with your positions on other things "political", it's easy to misdiagnose intent. People have unrealistic expectations because they have been manipulated to expect them. Just sayin'.....

We certainly agree, though we may differ on our views concerning who is doing the manipulation.

Cone_Junky wrote: In reply to RX Reven': Cap and Trade initiative? This is why elections get nothing done. Voters don't even know what they are voting on SB32 is a California Greenhouse Gas Intiative, Cap and Trade is a completely different national policy. Luckily the majority of California understood what it was all about and understood where the money came from to stop it (Texas oil companies!!!!!). It went down in flames....without any greenhouse gasses emitted of course.

Cone Junky,

I said Cap & Trade rather than AB 32 because the overwhelming majority of folks on this board aren’t familiar with propositions that are unique to California. I should have considered the fact that somebody would take a cheap shot and use my generalization as proof that I haven’t studied the issues.

Thanks, really classy

In reply to Cone_Junky:

Never did I suggest your economy was the ONLY factor in California's current and immediate future.

It's good that you recognize legislation was enacted to address fiscal issues. But, to suggest a collective "we" know what is wrong, and to have the election prove otherwise suggests your compatriots are "whistling past the graveyard" or don't care about consequences.

Invoking apocalyptic images of Mad Max or Waterworld is a fanciful deflection. If you want to use a better example of a likely doomsday scenario, take a close look at France - where people your age are rioting because the retirement threshold was raised from 60 to 62.

Is California (and the country/world) closer to an environmental Armageddon, or a social revolution fostered by failed economic policy?

Cone_Junky wrote: My only point was to inform the other poster that he didn't vote for what he thought he did. So therefore, we should all read the voter pamphlet that gets sent to us and do rersearch on each proposition.

Cone Junky,

Seriously…you think you can draw all those inferences about me just because I said Cap & Trade rather than AB 32.

We’ve got ourselves a real friken mind reader over here.

BTW, I’ve actually created a five hour workshop on environmental stewardship, delivered it to over 250 people, & led the implementation of over 100 discrete & quantifiable improvements.

You so don’t have a clue what you’re talking about…seriously!!!

In reply to RX Reven':

I can't read your mind, only what you wrote.

That's your fault for making a point with mis-information. What you wrote was a cheap shot at environmental policies. Maybe YOU should educate the majority of people on this forum before you make a broad generalization of a proposition? You knew that "Cap and Trade" is a national (partisan) hot button, so using it to describe a bill that has nothing to do with it was improper and, well, deflection.

Propisition 23 was meant to kill AB32 .

fast_eddie_72 wrote: One thing to bear in mind when talking about California: while, no doubt, there are significant problems to address, the "liberal thinking" that has guided California for the several decades has built an economy that is the eighth largest on Earth. California alone generates 13% of the US GDP. All that even though they carry one of the highest tax burdens of any state in the country.

sure but california also has roughly 12-13% of the US population. unfortunately more businesses are leaving the state than drawn to it for economic incentive reasons.

It's kinda funny reading this thread. It's like a micro look at what's going on with the country. "You're deflecting!" "No, it is you who is deflecting!" "You're ill-informed!" "No, it is you who is ill-informed!" We talk about each other to avoid talking about real issues.

Sorry, I saw Obama say "we're going to take our country back!" and then I saw Rand Paul say "we're going to take our country back!" Stop. You're both wrong. There's nobody to take the country back from.

We're all Americans. I agree with some Americans about political issues. I disagree with other Americans. But like it or not, Americans elected Obama President. He didn't take your country, your guy just lost. Get over it. And what happened Tuesday wasn't anyone taking the coutry away from Democrats. A bunch of our guys just lost. It's not the end of the world!

Truth is, Democrats did some stupid stuff. I've heard a lot of stuff in the last couple of days that leads me to believe Republicans will do a lot of stupid stuff over the next two years. Really? We're going to start investigating the White House? This is what the voters were saying? We want you to waste two years investigating eacy other to prove you're better than they are? Come on.

We're going to overturn all the legislation passed in the last two years? Way to move forward guys. God knows we haven't yet wasted enough time talking about healt care reform. I bet the voters are going to LOVE another summer of debate over that issue.

Mitch McConnel couldn't wait 24 hours to say they're going to drive Obama out of the White House. Don't worry about getting anything done Mitch, just focus on winning. Thanks for the help.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: One thing to bear in mind when talking about California: while, no doubt, there are significant problems to address, the "liberal thinking" that has guided California for the several decades has built an economy that is the eighth largest on Earth. California alone generates 13% of the US GDP. All that even though they carry one of the highest tax burdens of any state in the country.

History will regard California fondly, but only if an economy guided by "liberal thinking" succeeds. Current deficits, fiscal policy and ideological tendencies leave that legacy in doubt.

Oh, and a federal bail-out (affecting at least 87% of the national GDP) renders all pro-Cali supporters as candidates for institutionalization - if there is any funding available.

I'm insane?! No, no- it is yooouuu who is insane!

Ha ha! Times infinity! And there's no come-back to a times infinity! I win!

In reply to fast_eddie_72:

You win the contest to be Ignorant's clone? Revel and gloat in your new found stature.

Or, temper your posts so all us losers will know that you understand humility and compromise are the tools to address the problems the country has to address.

Well, once again I have clearly failed to communicate anything resembling my intent. Clearly, I need to "temper my posts". Insinuating that personal attacks are somehow less than productive is pretty inflammatory stuff. What was I thinking? You're right. You make a point much more effectively by calling me ignorant and saying I should be institutionalized. I'll temper my posts like you do.

Thanks for the example.

In other words- No! It is yoooouuuu who needs to temper his posts!

fast_eddie_72 wrote: ...calling me ignorant...

He didn't call you ignorant, he said you are effectively the same person as the member named "ignorant".

You will have to read some of Ignorant's post to determine if that should be considered an insult to you or not.