How often do people want your opinion? Come right in and talk about CAD software.

Me: An engineer for the last 25 years. I've used Solidworks and Creo extensively for machine design, assembly design, FEA and CFD. Solidworks is easier for machine design, and Creo is way better at handling large assemblies. Creo also has great FEA and CFD software packages available. Creo, however, doesn't understand how to make flat patterns in sheet metal. If you have a few bends and then ask Creo to make a flat pattern, it will be a silhouette of the bent part, as if material used "in and out of the page" just gets magicked into existence.

I am an engineering manager now at an integrator. I need to do lots of layouts with pieces to fit them in a box. I'll want to run conduit if possible. I'll want to build structures with beams and sheet metal panels. I'll want to run a CFD to test the enclosure for wind loads. I'll want to simulate heat and airflow from generator exhaust and cooling systems to see how the ventilation works. I'll want to run FEA on some parts, just if I want to for some specific purpose.

So, very little actual machine design. Very heavy on laying out existing parts. I don't want a steep learning curve or steep cost either.

So tell me about the rest. What can Rivet actually do other than architecture? What about Fusion 360 and the dizzying array of Autodesk software choices? What am I missing?

Right now the one contract drafter is running Solidworks and it's slow and crashy, as I recall, for large assemblies.

Bonus points for a decent check-in, check-out system built in for a few users. Bonus-er points for being able to import different kinds of files, because wow, that seems to be an issue.

I really love NX (made by Siemens). I used Solidworks in college and then used NX at work, and it was a super easy transition. To me, all CAD packages feel somewhat the same in basic usage (sketch, cut, mate, etc) but I found NX to be both easier to use than Solidworks and much more capable, especially with complex modelling and assemblies. Crashes were rare IIRC. And it has great sheetmetal modeling and drafting. There are also modules for routing (wire or plumbing or piping). Not a ton of issues importing parts, with the caveat that if you imported a solid of a different file type (STP, etc) NX treated it as just a block. No access to go change parameters of the original model. Maybe all softwares are like that? We had a really nice database management system (i remember now, called Teamcenter) with it that didn't require manual check-in/check-out, but rather all the permissions were based on the user "owning" the file. I find that so much more convenient as a user.

I didn't do much FEA or CFD modeling, there were other engineering teams for that, but I they were always using our solidmodels for said analysis so there must be some compatible software for it. I realize that may add to the cost, and i think i heard that NX is on the expensive side already.

budget_bandit said:

I really love NX (made by Siemens). I used Solidworks in college and then used NX at work, and it was a super easy transition. To me, all CAD packages feel somewhat the same in basic usage (sketch, cut, mate, etc) but I found NX to be both easier to use than Solidworks and much more capable, especially with complex modelling and assemblies. And it has great sheetmetal modeling and drafting. Not a ton of issues importing parts, with the caveat that if you imported a solid of a different file type (STP, etc) NX treated it as just a block. No access to go change parameters of the original model. Maybe all softwares are like that? We had a really nice database management system with it that didn't require manual check-in/check-out, but rather all the permissions were based on the user "owning" the file. I find that so much more convenient as a user.

I wholeheartedly agree. Given who signs my paychecks (I work for Siemens, specifically NX marketing), that may not come as a surprise! 

Multi-CAD is actually one of the strengths of NX vs. the competition, with tons of import/export options, and the ability to modify history-free data using synchronous technology. We pride ourselves on having an open philosophy, letting the user choose the right tools for themselves, unlike certain French companies that try to restrict you to only using their stuff.  But we also offer the whole engineering, design, and manufacturing gamut, and it all integrates together very nicely.

I didn't do much FEA or CFD modeling, there were other engineering teams for that, but I they were always using our solidmodels for said analysis so there must be some compatible software for it. I realize that may add to the cost, and i think i heard that NX is on the expensive side already.

I mean, it's not cheap, but it's enterprise-level CAD that is used to design everything from small components to cars to aircraft carriers. And it can be surprisingly affordable these days with more flexible pricing options than we've had in the past.

I use NX at work, also Rhino, and occasionally touch SW.  I used Solid Edge in the past, and it's sheet metal package was by far better than any of the other programs.

Both NX and SE are clunky at wire routing/piping/etc.  Not sure exactly what you are laying out, but often its easier to handle those with a sketch and treat them as a parametric modeling feature instead of a true "wire" (although SE can do really nice wire boards). 

The way NX can manipulate assemblies is a game changer compare to SW or SE.

NX or SE can read native SW files, although Im not sure thats any better than just importing a STEP.

I agree with budget bandit above - all the big name parametric software packages are going to feel the same if you want to make a block and put some holes in it.  Their differences come with the more powerful applications and integration, and IMO, all of them fall short one way or another here.  NX has multiple FEA options, not sure what CFD looks like.  In many cases people end up exporting geometry and handling these in outside software.

Regarding a PDM or Rev control system - that is usually a separate package.  

Another big lover of NX here and the very choose your own adventure style of modeling it allows.  I absolutely loathe Creo because you have to follow old school drafting methods when creating a part otherwise you are bound to run into an error at some point. Push, pull, drag, resize, delete whatever face or feature you want and it is more or less parametric.  You can definitely develop some bad habits with these functions but it is incredibly effective and iterative changes and step file modification.

As for PLM and revision control NX integrates very nicely with TeamCenter which is also a Siemens Product.  TeamCenter is it's own beast and can be difficult to navigate in some regards, I think the engineering release routings go very smoothly through TeamCenter and there is very nice graphical depictions for the various release processes.  I think PTC's Windchill is a better overall PLM program and I think the search function is much easier to use in Windchill.

In reply to RacetruckRon :

I can't tell you how many times move face and delete face saved my bacon when having to rework old modeling that some other engineer did in the 90s. Amazing.

I also love how good NX seemed to be at updating my drafting when the model changed, and how easy it was (usually) to edit drafting to accommodate model changes. I find it much better than SW in that regard. You could even edit a center mark and apply it to more holes, which is something that irritates me in SW because i don't think that can be done. 

budget_bandit said:

In reply to RacetruckRon :

I can't tell you how many times move face and delete face saved my bacon when having to rework old modeling that some other engineer did in the 90s. Amazing.

I also love how good NX seemed to be at updating my drafting when the model changed, and how easy it was (usually) to edit drafting to accommodate model changes. I find it much better than SW in that regard. You could even edit a center mark and apply it to more holes, which is something that irritates me in SW because i don't think that can be done. 

One comment here:  NX's Drafting environment is a berkeleying disaster  SE is was so much more user friendly.

Thankfully my team very rarely has to do ay drawings.  

I'll need to do schematics more than drawings, but I will need both.

I tried to use NX in maybe 2010 and was baffled. It seemed so much harder than Pro-E (Creo now) or Solidworks that I just let the drafters handle it.

Is it that much better than it was?

What's the deal with NX drawings?

tuna55 said:

Is it that much better than it was?

Not really.  I'm curious how you are making your schematics though.  You want to manually draw, auto-cad style?  Or add notes to something you've modeled?  

How annoying drafting is could wildly vary depending on your use case.

Thankfully for schematics, 2D layouts, and stuff that is more "quick and dirty" I have Rhino , which is super fast and easy.  But it is not an enterprise grade parametric modeler.

I may be an outlier, but I love NX drafting. I use SW again and i miss NX drafting every day...my use case was designing and drafting machined parts, sheet metal parts, etc. I also made and drafted assemblies of all sizes

In reply to budget_bandit :

If your settings are correct, SolidWorks puts the center marks and most of the annotations in the drawing.  No clicking and no copying. Seriously. 
 

Solid Edge is poop. To be fair, we had the 2d version. 
 

Teamcenter along with the whole PLM thing is super over the top for most organizations. PDMs usually provide enough organization and control. 
 

SolidWorks electrical seems easy enough for schematics. It's what our electrical guys are using. 
 

I don't know what you guys are complaining about NX drafting for. I think it's on par with Solidworks for how straight forward the dimensioning and notes are and way above Creo in ease with of use. Plus you just switch back and forth between drafting and modeling with a hot key since the drawings are imbedded not a separate window like Creo and Solidworks. 

Another NX and Teamcenter user here. It's a really powerful tool, and frankly a lot better than it was back in the NX3 days when I was first learning it. My company has a ton of homegrown embedded tools and add on analysis packages, with simcenter gaining popularity amongst our analysts.  It's a really nuanced, powerful FEA package that has a pretty steep learning curve. It essentially uses Ansys or nastran solvers, and allows parametric/synchronous modeling and analysis. Kind of like what you can do with workbench, but all within the NX framework.

I'm a big fan of using Teamcenter to view and manipulate large assembly models since its easy to navigate and loads so much faster when you have an assembly of ... 10k+ parts.

In contrast, I use Fusion at home. Haven't done flat pattern work in years, but modeling is really fast. I had good success with their FEA package that used to be included with their free license. It was alot easier for me to use now that I don't do much FEA work these days.

I recommend seeing if you can demo NX and Fusion.

FWIW we run a lot of custom NX tools at work also.  A shocking number of people where I work use a Flat-BOM generator I wrote like 12 years ago and have done my best to keep up to date, until another team took it over.  When I joined my current company I was coming from several places that used SE and I was completely blown away NX didn't have this capability out of the box.  We also have some to handle standardized drafting notes.

Regarding drafting, its just a frustrating, clunky environment.  Pulling section views, auxiliary views, updating dimensions is all wayyyyy easier in SE.  God forbid you want to sketch on top of an existing orthographic view... what a berkeleying mess.

I'd still choose NX if I had to pick software, I'd just spend the time to find a better way to handle drafting.  Again, I've settled into an environment where its rarely used, so it doesn't bother me that much.  Hell in a hurry I do a "drawing" in PowerPoint.  If I planned on using it extensively, I might re-think my options.

tuna55 said:

What can Rivet actually do other than architecture?

Assuming you meant Revit rather than Rivet. Revit is probably not for you. It is biased heavily toward architecture.

I'm on the consulting engineering side, in electrical. We use it because architects use it, not because it's great. We use it to model equipment and panelboards and conduits with it. Our mechanical and plumbing people model all their equipment and ductwork and pipes and pumps and toilets. All very biased toward architectural and good enough with MEP systems that we can use it.

Revit works with Revit files only. Can import .pdfs and AutoCAD drawings as backgrounds. Steep learning curve. Infuriatingly, you can update older files to the version of Revit you're using, but once saved in the newer version, you can never open those files with an older version of Revit again. It's a one-way street and it's a pain in the sittin' parts.

It seems like most CAD packages have some limitations on forward and backwards compatibility.  
 

A few more things about SolidWorks when you are working with really large assemblies. It is critical to setup simplified configurations of the sub-assemblies and have primary components fixed. Floating or unfixed components take up a lot of resources. There is a built in configuration called Speedpack that really reduces the overhead. 

Be careful how you handle imported parts, particularly STEP files, Break links, de-feature, and clean up surface bodies before you dump those into the big assembly. Parasolids tend to perform better than STEP files. A full native conversion is even better. 

Patterns are your friend! Never ever put in every single fastener on an individual basis. Yes, toolbox will do it, but calculating a bazillion mates will kill performance. 
 

In reply to tester (Forum Supporter) :

Can I hire you? Not related to the discussion...

I think that mechanical layouts and conduit design, structual analysis, drafting, FEA CFD all can be one thing, and schematics can be a different thing. They don't have to be the same software if that helps.

Everyone here is saying NX other than Tester saying Solidworks. For clarity, he and I used to work together and were both pretty good at Solidworks, but it was 2009 or something.

Nx apparently has the weak spots of making drawings and schematics. Do they do real demos? That's the thing I need it seems. I do need to make drawings, but schematics can live elsewhere.

For what you described, SW will probably be fine if you take precautions to keep major assemblies light. Lots of tricks for doing that. Its Flow Simulation CFD tool is actually pretty decent, way better than its FEA tool, which itself isn't terrible. If you're comfortable with SW I would just stick with that. I use it everyday for a similar job you are describing. It also has a good Routing tool for conduit, wiring, plumbing, etc layouts.

tuna55 said:

Everyone here is saying NX other than Tester saying Solidworks. For clarity, he and I used to work together and were both pretty good at Solidworks, but it was 2009 or something.

I guarantee everyone saying NX uses it in the workplace.  It tends to skew your perspective when you use it every day.  It also highly depends on your intended use, and its hard for any of us to understand your exact usage here, because its obviously hard to articulate it in a sentence or two of text.

I agree that doing demos is probably the best course of action for you.

The price may sway you.  SW and NX are certainly different levels.  You are comparing a Ranger to an F350.  SW:SE::Catia:NX

tuna55 said:

Nx apparently has the weak spots of making drawings and schematics. Do they do real demos? That's the thing I need it seems. I do need to make drawings, but schematics can live elsewhere.

Indeed we do.

We use Solidquirks here, 40 mechanical engineers and 5 or 6 EEs, make some big honkin assemblies and plant layouts and other than chugging a bit from time to time it does just fine.  Couple of notes:

• We also use PDM for file management, works fine
• Solidworks sheetmetal has greatly improved in robustness over the last 10 years.
• A lot of the issues we run into with Solidworks result from bad modelling practices, using stuff like "Up To Next" vs a defined, calculatable point, using "Delete Bodies", using the Mirror function, etc.  While this does get stuff done quick, it can make a big model chug.  We are pretty serious about training up our engineers in proper modelling practices.
• We don't do a ton of FEA.  Steel is cheap and most of our stuff is dumb boxes.
• We do a lot of structural steel work, the weldment tool is real nice
• We don't do a lot of surfaces, organic items, molded or cast items, or compound curves.  
• We don't do 
• Solidworks seems super popular here in the midwest at most midsize companies that we work with, your mileage may vary.
• We still do some big plant layouts in 2D Autocad, but only have a few engineers who are really good in AutoBad.  I have forgotten how it works I use it so infrequently.

We use Solidquirks here, 40 mechanical engineers and 5 or 6 EEs, make some big honkin assemblies and plant layouts and other than chugging a bit from time to time it does just fine.  Couple of notes:

• We also use PDM for file management, works fine
• Solidworks sheetmetal has greatly improved in robustness over the last 10 years.
• A lot of the issues we run into with Solidworks result from bad modelling practices, using stuff like "Up To Next" vs a defined, calculatable point, using "Delete Bodies", using the Mirror function, etc.  While this does get stuff done quick, it can make a big model chug.  We are pretty serious about training up our engineers in proper modelling practices.
• We don't do a ton of FEA.  Steel is cheap and most of our stuff is dumb boxes.
• We do a lot of structural steel work, the weldment tool is real nice
• We don't do a lot of surfaces, organic items, molded or cast items, or compound curves.  
• We don't do 
• Solidworks seems super popular here in the midwest at most midsize companies that we work with, your mileage may vary.
• We still do some big plant layouts in 2D Autocad, but only have a few engineers who are really good in AutoBad.  I have forgotten how it works I use it so infrequently.

Just had an epic NX battle where I ran into limitation after limitation after limitation.  If one of you SW guys wants to give modeling this part a try I'd be curious how well it handles it.  Not a common usage by any means (this is just a personal part I wanted to 3D print) and most of these issues wouldn't impact me day to day.

Hexagonal patterns are hard
Certain dimensions (perimeter) don't give you the option of making them reference only
Draft feature only drafts along vector
Circular patterns do not give option to stagger
Get enough formula driven dimensions in a model and stuff gets really wonky

This is one of those things where it almost makes sense to use Grasshopper/Rhino.