How to get a raise?

Zomby Woof wrote: You're underpaid for a reason.

Yeah, that reason is because that's how they run the business. They aim to be the low bidder, every time, then they make up for it with volume. To keep the pay low, they pay people low. That results in turnover and, in most cases, the truly talented leaving because of situations like this.
When I got this job they knew of me already. I wasn't interviewed. I was offered a position, they wanted me. Then I was hand-picked for the position I am in because of a particular skill set I have, I am in the highest profile position in my department. I'm valuable and I know it. I've always believed that you get what you pay for (up to a certain point). Want a nice car? You're going to pay more. Want a nice dinner out? You're going to pay more. Want a good employee that will get the job done, no matter what, and exceed expectations? You're going to pay more. I guess I'm just looking to see if they'll pay more.
To be clear, I'm not asking for lots of money. I think I'm 5% below the average pay. I'm doing an above average job, so I'd like the average pay.

I really do appreciate all the viewpoints here, from both sides of the employee/employer relationship.

PHeller wrote: But you said you it was the perfect job? Wouldn't it have been more perfect for competitive pay?

The work was perfect. The pay was borderline low. When I asked for more money, they told me I was already making too much. The day after I gave my notice, it was advertised for $6000 less per year.

Dr. Boost:

I'd probably be straight with other potential employers. Your looking because your underpaid, and you doubt your current company will meet your salary requirements. This tells the other employers that you want a certain salary, they can determine if your worth that, and if (and only if) they make an offer, you can go to your current employer with the wage request.

I don't think there is anything wrong with turning down an opportunity by saying "I was able to come to an agreement with my current employer, and would like to stay as a dedicated employee."

To the offering employer, this makes you sound like a dedicated employee. You may never get an offer from them again, but it got you where you wanted to be.

Datsun1500 wrote: If you play games with me and waste my time, you will lose. It is not worth the headache.

Interesting perspective. If an employee had been around for a couple of years and was good, seems to me that they'd be worth their weight in gold for you to take a little bit of your time to deal with. It's obvious that you don't value your employees very much, but there are plenty of gigs that do.

DrBoost, you have a commodity (your work) that you are selling. Your employer has a commodity (your salary, benefits, etc) that they are selling. It is your JOB to get the most out of said employer, and in the end, every job (for the most part) becomes just another job. Money does buy happiness to a certain extent, everytime my overtime gets paid out I'm usually pretty stress free for a while.

I'll boil my advice down to a few key points:

• It doesn't matter that the recruiter contacted you. If you let your current employer know about the other offer, no matter what you say, it shows that you are interested in some aspect of the other offer, and are considering your options. Once you communicate the other opportunity to them, I think they're going to brand you as someone who has one foot out the door. With that, your chances of making any significant progress in your current position are much lower.

• I'll echo what many have said, if you want a significant pay hike, you need to switch jobs. Employers bet on inertia keeping you there, and that gives them leverage, and the ability to keep your pay down. In the end, very few employees leave because of pay, and those that do often work many years at lower wages before getting fed up enough to leave. I'm not saying it's right, but it's reality.

• If you're going to voice your displeasure about any aspect of your current job, make sure you already have an end-game plan. I managed someone who was furious about his pay raise a few years back (it was a fair amount, and in-line with the company's raises for that year). He didn't leave the next day, but when a position opened up in another group (within the same company) a few years later, he applied for it. When he told me about the other position, I encouraged him to apply, as I thought it was a better fit for his skills and would give him a better opportunity in the long run. The day he voiced his displeasure with his raise, I knew that he wouldn't be with our group forever, and had to plan for that reality. I don't believe he had a plan when he voiced his displeasure, but he was lucky enough to be bailed out by the other position unexpectedly opening up. As much as you can, look at your situation and map out where you want to be in a few years.

The sad reality is that, it's just about impossible to get a raise for what you've done (or are currently doing). The better setup is to say something like this: "I'd like to earn a 5% raise over the next year. Can we outline a plan together for how I could contribute more to the company and accomplish that?" It shows that you have a vested interest in making the company more successful. It also puts a positive spin on you wanting a raise, as opposed to "I deserve 5% more than what I'm making" which comes across as whining (even if it's true).

If your company is big on cutting costs, a way to contribute would be to show what you've done (or can do) to cut costs. If you have an annual review, take the time to list out your accomplishments over the past year. It's very easy for you (and your employer) to forget some of your contributions earlier in the year. Taking the time to prep for an annual review is one of the best ways to gain a larger raise.

Good luck!

DrBoost wrote:

Zomby Woof wrote: You're underpaid for a reason.

Yeah, that reason is because that's how they run the business.

That's usually it.

The company I worked for classified us as textile and showed us how we were in the top range, or even better for textile workers. High performance composites are woven, but certainly not textile. They just wanted the lowest wages they could get away with and still keep most people.

^ What kind of business?

Want a raise?

take a number.

I'm glad some of you are not my boss. A lot of mention of dropping employees who want more money and/or are looking for other opportunities. If people are looking for other opportunities maybe it means you're not that great of a person to work for? Maybe a bit too big of an ego?

Most of my raises were a direct result of me giving two weeks notice. Employers want to pay you as little as possible. It's up to you to make too little not possible.

Obviously you know the climate at your place of employment better than all of us. So play your cards the way you think will work best for you.

As far as I'm concerned I'm doing them just as much of a favor showing up and making your business money as you are for employing me. That's the way it should be.

I don't want to waste anyone's time or money by going to do drug testign and background check authorizations, but I was interested in the offer they gave me. I went to the service manager, told him I had an offer (it was making more money than I am now actually, but I really like where I am now and I feel I have more opportunity here), I told him what position I wanted (a promotion from quick lube to Master Tech's apprentice) and what I wanted to be making now, and that I needed to be next in line to move up again to being a flat rate tech and what I'd be making there as well.
I made reasonable demands that I more than earned, and I got them. And, if things get bad, I still have the other offer to fall back on because I didn't go through the entire hiring process only to change my mind at the end after they invested time and money into acquiring me.

Cone_Junky wrote: Most of my raises were a direct result of me giving two weeks notice. Employers want to pay you as little as possible. It's up to you to make too little not possible.

See, I don't get that either. If I've gone through to the point of getting an offer for another company, why would I stay?

They know I'm ready to jump ship if the grass looks greener.

And it's been my experience, as many others have noted, you have to leave and go somewhere else to get "real raises".

Last two job changes were 35% and 15% respectively.

I'm going to talk to my boss. I'm going to tell him I was contacted by a previous employer and they want me back. They have made a very handsome offer. I am not looking to leave, but I have a family to consider. What can we do to keep us both happy?
If they offer some low figure, then I'll leave. If they want/need me as much as it appears, they'll give me a reasonable offer to stay. I'm not looking for them to match the offer, just bring me up to a reasonable salary.
My boss has said twice in recent department meetings, that if anyone is unhappy there, he'd rather they talk to him before they start looking for other work. It's easier/more better to keep an employee than to train a new one. They are also known for paying below standard, that's why I was inquiring.

^If he said that, I wouldn't bring up the other offer.

It will make you look proactive. Then, if nothing happens, you can take the other offer, or continue to look to see if you can find something better.

I had to change companies to get a large raise; the raise I got was about 50%. I was horribly underpaid for my skillset and the work I was doing. However, I developed the skill set with training my previous employer gave me. I paid them back by doing great work for 9 years and learning everything I could. Eventually I learned so much that I realized I was selling myself short by continuing to work there.

They were happy letting me work there for as long as I wanted, since I was a bargain. When I put in my notice, my boss said she was surprised I stayed there as long as I did. They then proceeded to promote internally and begin the same process all over again. It's what they do, I can't fault them for it- they run their IT department like a minor-league baseball club. They know that the good people are going to all leave sooner or later.

I'm a little surprised there isn't more focused attention in this thread from the employers side.

You said you "deserved" a raise, and that you are "valuable" and you "know it".

Prove it.

I don't mean that in an argumentative way. I mean, quantify it from the business' perspective. What makes you valuable? Why are your skill sets special? Why do you deserve a raise? What is the real value of your skills on the open market if they were to replace you? What do you bring to the company? In what ways do you improve the bottom line?

If your answer is you are nice, high quality, respectful, organized, detailed, etc, so what? How do those things improve the company's bottom line?

With all due respect, EVERYONE can be replaced.

So quantify it. For example: "The sales initiative I conceived last year brought in 120 new customers". "The efficiencies I introduced saved $20K in labor". "The improved workflow reduced machine time and cut utility bills by 15%".

Once you can quantify the real value you bring to the company in DOLLARS, you will understand your honest real value to the company (not what you THINK they should offer to be fair or competitive). Once you know your value in dollars, the conversation with your boss will be very easy.

No game playing. As an employer, I would hear that as a signal you were on your way out the door sooner or later.

Good Luck!

SVreX wrote: Once you can quantify the real value you bring to the company in DOLLARS, you will understand your honest real value to the company (not what you THINK they should offer to be fair or competitive).

He already has. He doesn't need to justify it though, as some other person (the company that wants to hire him) already did for him. He is worth more. At that point, the employer either agrees he is worth more, and pays him more to keep him, or he walks.

It's also BS that you have to prove (beyond the work you already do, presumably good work in an efficient manner) above and beyond that you deserve a raise. Somebody who doesn't even have direct contact with the OP thinks he is worth more. That speaks volumes if the company that deals with him on a day to day basis can not assess that themselves. If a company cares that little about their employees as to NOT give them raises when they are deserved, it's not a company I'd work for.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't care if you are a business owner/manager/boss of employees, you sound like hell to work for, and I don't think the OP should base his decisions on your extremely biased "I'm da boss" opinion.

I do keep a "brag sheet', though I HATE to do that. I can quantify what I do and what it brings to the company. There are details about both companies/job positions that I can't mention right now but my current employer had me as a contract hire a few years ago. They came after me this time, I didn't contact them. Then, after getting glowing reviews from my first 5 months of work they put me at the highest profile position because of my skill set and work ethic.
Then this company, who I worked for came after me for all the same reasons above, basically. At this point I don't feel I even need the brag sheet to get me to the industry standard pay.
We'll see what happens. Again, thanks for the insight.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

My 2-cents are as an employer.

1. What someone else is willing to pay you means absolutely nothing to me. I keep up with current wage rates in my area, but I have to weigh that against my balance sheet, so your salary or hourly rate is what your position pays within my company. If someone else is willing to pay you more, there may be other factors that are not in play with my company.

2. I hate to loose you as an employee. You're a nice person and a good fit, but more than that, retraining and redistributing workload is a pain and an expense. So if you ask about the opportunity to make more money rather than leaving, I have some incentive to keep you. The question is, how much?

3. If you are at the top of your pay scale and have been getting COL increases, there isn't much I can do. You may have maxed out your position at my company. Without more responsibilities or a move to a new position, and therefore new pay scale, I have to accept that you are going to leave and I start someone in your position at the bottom of the pay scale, which helps me.

4. If you are somewhere within your scale, and your work reflects it, I will certainly consider a move to the next tier. You would be putting out 110% at your new job right, so it is only fair that my expectations for your work go up a bit along with your pay. If you think that you will continue to punch the clock and take long lunches for another 5 years for more money, you are wrong.

5. You don't "deserve" higher pay. I have given COL increases, earned bonuses, and merit-based increases as appropriate. Other bosses may pay as little as possible for as long as possible and you may have deserved something from them. Some industries are like that, but not here. So be sure you know where you stand before you make threats.

6. You "earn" higher pay. If I am not paying attention to the extra work you took on when someone else left, or the extra hours you put in, or the new skills you have acquired, then shame on me. And shame on you for not keeping me in the loop. But let me know, and if you have earned a raise, you will get a raise.

7. If you want more pay, you may have to take on more responsibility or more work. Again, come and talk to me, I may be relieved that someone wants to step up internally and avoid me having to search for a candidate.

So I agree with the discussion approach rather than the threaten approach. I know threats can work, but they hurt your employee "credit score" if you will. A discussion may need to include reminders of your accomplishments and the current industry standard pay for your position, but its a negotiation so all of that is allowed. And if your boss is a tool, be prepared to walk away.

pinchvalve wrote: And if your boss is a tool, be prepared to walk away.

Pinchvalve, are you hiring
Seriously, that's the way it should be. In my experience (usually working for large automotive companies) that's not the case.
The bottom line is, I'm currently employed and am truly thankful. I appreciate my employer, and I think they appreciate me. If I have this discussion and they are willing to make effort to keep me, that'll more than likely be enough. If not, it may push me to the point of keeping my eyes and ears open, but not really "looking" for another job.
I'll let you guys know how it goes.

A subject I know something about. I have been paying my bills as a compensation consultant for over 10 years now. I am one the people who researches labors markets, creates salary ranges, designs incentive plans, and implements automated systems to manage it all.

I could go on for several pages about all the mythology that surrounds pay and pay rates. There is a more truth in the responses in this thread than I often see. I'll focus on your particular situation.

The golden rule of employment is that people are hired when the value of the work they do is higher than what it cost to employ them. Pay rates are a function of what your work output is worth to the company. If you want to maximize your pay, think in terms of how to raise the value of what you contribute.

If the people you work for are reasonable and appreciate you, then ask your boss this question. What would need to happen for me to get a 10% pay raise?. See what the response is. If he/she doesn't shoot down the idea immediately then some follow up questions might be, "What skills would I need to justfy a higher pay rate?' or "Is there some of your job that I could take over that would be the extra money to you?" Try to keep the conversation focused on what thecompanies needs are and how you can meet them better. If you are asking for 10% more to do the same thing, It is going to be frustrating conversation. If you are asking what can you can do to make their life 10% easier or more profitable, that can be a very interesting conversation.

Edited for clarity and spelling.

HiTempguy wrote: ...I've said it before and I'll say it again, ...

Yes, that is true. You don't seem to be able to control yourself on this one. I'm sure that we are all infinitely interested in your completely off-base assault on the character of someone you know absolutely nothing about.

I'm sad for you, and sorry that you have somehow misinterpreted everything I say, and can't seem to get over it. I have apparently offended you. I apologize.

I wish you many great opportunities.

If we meet one day, I'll buy you a beer.

Boost, good luck with the job negotiations. Hope you find some useful ideas in this thread. Keep us posted.

Well, I talked to my boss this morning. I shot straight with him, explained that I wasn’t looking to leave and still don’t want to, but I have a family to consider. I told him I’m not trying to play hard-ball or to hold him over a barrel. I told him what I was hoping to get and he explained that I was already tagged as one that they considered to be very valuable and didn’t want to lose. He said they’ll give me what I asked for.
Naturally I thanked him for his time and got my but back to work. I knew that I was valuable there and that they are happy with my work, but it’s nice to know that I was already identified as one they want to keep around long-term.

How long til you get teh raise?