Huge Victory for California

neon4891 wrote: In reply to 924guy: why do people conspire to lure me to florida...

There is no conspriracy.

You live in NY and are considering viable options.

I got out of New York when I was three

<--- St. James

I got out of NJ about 7 yrs ago, there are actually a lot of thing that I like about southern NJ, but because of the high taxes and cost of living I doubt that I will ever move back. I feel like an economic refugee; my home land has been over run by an invader that I can't defeat. I bet that a lot of people feel the same about cali.

I have to say, I like New Jersey.

I've been all over the USA and I've lived in four different countries. NJ works for me. Lots to do and most of it is close by. Expensive? Yes, but salaries tend to match this for most of the folks that I know. Average real estate taxes in the town I work in (for something on an acre with 4 bedrooms) would be in the $10 to $15K range. In the western rural area where I live it's around half that (yes, NJ has "rural" areas ....you should see the black bears I get).

The South Jersey Pine Barrens are really cool if you're into off-road motorcycle enduro. The ECEA enduro events are excellent. And for car racing, there's lots of tracks within an easy tow from my northwest NJ digs (6, off the top of my head).

Could I save money moving to another place? Yes. But then I'd have to Live in that place.

I know it's different strokes for different folks and I can appreciate that. But I like the activity of NJ. To me, it's like buying a rusted out car for cheap or spending a bit more and getting a really solid one. You get what you pay for. My tuppence anyway.

I always hear that there's more to do "in the city," but after having lived in several I don't hold the same opinion. I don't go to theaters or plays. I don't go dancing or clubbing. I don't find it fun to go trying out dozens and dozens of new restaurants or bars. And I don't go shopping. While there are things you might find in cities that you don't find in smaller towns or rural areas (say, a museum), it's not something you have to live down the road from. It's not like you're going to go to a museum every day. If you're 20 miles away - or 50 -, then it's no big deal to drive into town for that once a year.

I'd rather live somewhere more rural or on the outskirts of town. I don't have to deal with the traffic and there's more room. I personally find much more to do outside of the city then inside. Not as built-up and more green stuff. The city doesn't really hold much appeal for me, beyond an occasional visit. Meh.

aeronca65t wrote: I have to say, I like New Jersey. I've been all over the USA and I've lived in four different countries. NJ works for me. Lots to do and most of it is close by. Expensive? Yes, but salaries tend to match this for most of the folks that I know. Average real estate taxes in the town I work in (for something on an acre with 4 bedrooms) would be in the $10 to $15K range. In the western rural area where I live it's around half that (yes, NJ has "rural" areas ....you should see the black bears I get). The South Jersey Pine Barrens are really cool if you're into off-road motorcycle enduro. The ECEA enduro events are excellent. And for car racing, there's lots of tracks within an easy tow from my northwest NJ digs (6, off the top of my head). Could I save money moving to another place? Yes. But then I'd have to Live in that place. I know it's different strokes for different folks and I can appreciate that. But I like the activity of NJ. To me, it's like buying a rusted out car for cheap or spending a bit more and getting a really solid one. You get what you pay for. My tuppence anyway.

$10/$15k real estate taxes! For what? I live in the metro Atlanta area, we have all the same stuff you listed & better weather. Try $2 taxes. But none of that matters, if things keep going the way thay are we will all be over taxed, underpayed & broke.

Wow!

Just $2 for taxes!

I'm there!

Well not that good, $2K.

JeepinMatt wrote: I always hear that there's more to do "in the city," but after having lived in several I don't hold the same opinion. I don't go to theaters or plays. I don't go dancing or clubbing. I don't find it fun to go trying out dozens and dozens of new restaurants or bars. And I don't go shopping. While there are things you might find in cities that you don't find in smaller towns or rural areas (say, a museum), it's not something you have to live down the road from. It's not like you're going to go to a museum every day. If you're 20 miles away - or 50 -, then it's no big deal to drive into town for that once a year. I'd rather live somewhere more rural or on the outskirts of town. I don't have to deal with the traffic and there's more room. I personally find much more to do outside of the city then inside. Not as built-up and more green stuff. The city doesn't really hold much appeal for me, beyond an occasional visit. Meh.

so, there is more to do, you just don't want to do any of it...

is it possible that you don't do/want to do those things because you just haven't really been around them and experienced them enough?

Strizzo wrote:

JeepinMatt wrote: I always hear that there's more to do "in the city," but after having lived in several I don't hold the same opinion. I don't go to theaters or plays. I don't go dancing or clubbing. I don't find it fun to go trying out dozens and dozens of new restaurants or bars. And I don't go shopping. While there are things you might find in cities that you don't find in smaller towns or rural areas (say, a museum), it's not something you have to live down the road from. It's not like you're going to go to a museum every day. If you're 20 miles away - or 50 -, then it's no big deal to drive into town for that once a year. I'd rather live somewhere more rural or on the outskirts of town. I don't have to deal with the traffic and there's more room. I personally find much more to do outside of the city then inside. Not as built-up and more green stuff. The city doesn't really hold much appeal for me, beyond an occasional visit. Meh.

so, there is more to do, you just don't want to do any of it... is it possible that you don't do/want to do those things because you just haven't really been around them and experienced them enough?

I'm in the same boat as him. Lived in the city, went to plays, concerts, blah blah blah all the "City" things to do. Did I enjoy it? Yes. Do I prefer having land, privacy, big garage, riding dirt bikes, shooting guns, camping, outdoor activities , etc more? Yes, way more. This is why we moved a little farther out and bought some land. I can do all of the things I mentioned above on our own property, which I could never do when we lived in the city. We still go to plays and things like that when we want, and it isn't as convenient, but works much better for us.

i never said there was anything wrong with not living in a city, actually i grew up and went to school in a small town, so i've experienced both sides. both have their pluses and minuses.

i was just pointing out the fact that jeepinmatt said that he doesn't think there are things to do in the city, and then lists off a bunch of things to do in the city. what i think it really is is that he doesn't like those "city things" so therefore "not the city life" is better than "city life"

the reality is more likely it depends on the person

I'm with JeepinMatt... I've been to theaters and concerts , I've been dancing and clubbing ,(used to be a bartender / waiter), I've experienced about as much of the "eating out on a regular basis" as I could ever want .... I do most of my shopping on the web or over the phone.... for me it really is much better out here in the country... (my town just voted down (overwhelmingly) the idea of incorporation ) so I guess I've got a little longer to enjoy the "non" city life

I must make my plug for tennesse because I am georgia to tennesse transplant. Me and my wife live in the county that chattanooga resides in. There is much economic growth on the horizon everybody in this area except negative naysayers are optmistic. the cost of living is very low compared to atlanta my wife and I have a combined income of 50k a year as we are young and inexperienced we were able to buy a house completly on our own right in the midst of the housing debacle. I am sure that we could not have bought a house in any other area but our house payment is merely 50 dollars a month higher than our rent was. Oh and by the way I can fir guns on my property, piss off my front porch, and use air tools all night long. Of course several of my neighbors have livestock.

Just remember all you people from PRC stay out of Oregon. Remember there is no sun here and it rains everyday of the year, just how we like it. We also sacrifice you light dwellers to our heathen rain gods by throwing you into one of our many volcanoes.

NYS didn't make the top ten list of states in bad financial condition.

California also suffers from voter initiatives gone wild. IIRC more than half of state budget is earmarked by voter initiative for some program or another. So even if you have a consensus that some program or another should go away, or a program has funding surplus, the legislators can't touch it. I have as, a matter course, started voting no on every initiative no matter how much I agree with the goals.

Wow, I do the same thing...

neon4891 wrote: In reply to 924guy: why do people conspire to lure me to florida...

LOL, not I... Florida is actually loosing population for the first time ever, but that alone can make it a great bargain if you can find work.

My advise, to anyone contemplating moving, is to figure out exactly what type of place you want to live (city size, attractions, economics, etc) and then find the place with the lowest cost of living that suits your criteria.

I was lucky enough to find it, im 15 minutes away from the Atlantic, and five minutes away from a half a dozen great wildlife areas and kayaking. im less than 3 hours from Daytona, Tampa, and less than 2 hours from Orlando, Sebring, Ft Meyers, and Miami if i want to go to an event in those areas. there are no home owners associations in my neighborhood, and allot of "car people " and I have a real yard. It did take awhile to find, and it was worth the effort, though sometimes I think I should have bought the house on the deep water canal!

Capt Slow wrote: Wow, I do the same thing...

Me three…we’ve always got tons of bond measures on the ballot and folks unwittingly vote them in thinking that they’ll be unaffecting so long as they simply don’t buy the bonds.

Ummm…hello…dumb E36 M3, how could you possibly not understand that your tax dollars will be used to pay back those bonds with interest tacked on?

When I get to the bond section of the ballot, I mark "NO" to everything without consideration and for fun, I do it to the rhythm of the Meow Mix song.

iceracer wrote: NYS didn't make the top ten list of states in bad financial condition.

Cite your source.

This link (from ABC News) indicates otherwise:

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=8016634&page=1

The urban states subsidize the rural states, which makes sense when you think about it, as allot of infrastructure is more $$ efficient to scale and is more compact anyway when people are right next to each other, and obviously more expensive when everybody is all spread out. A reasonable re distribution of wealth in most peoples eyes, but it is worth noting.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html

If California could have that .22 on the dollar back right now they would be in a world less hurt. California will remain a powerhouse, it is the 8th or tenth 10th largest economy in the world (depending on who is counting), has a very educated and experienced core of technologists, a gigantic reserve of resident venture capital, the most fertile valley of agricultural land on the planet (over 13% of us agricultural $$ output) , but it needs to restructure it's basic political mechanism for passing laws and budgets.

here is a frothy libertarian take on the subject: http://larrylivermore.blogspot.com/2009/07/sink-with-california.html

agricultural $$ source http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/266.html

That said, I am so glad we bailed Cali. I freaking love Oregon in spite of the ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE WEATHER.

rebelgtp wrote: Just remember all you people from PRC stay out of Oregon. Remember there is no sun here and it rains everyday of the year, just how we like it. We also sacrifice you light dwellers to our heathen rain gods by throwing you into one of our many volcanoes.

Oh, don't worry. The general consensus down here is that Oregon is just a one long speed trap on the way to Washington.

Seriously, the last time I went up through there, the first 10-20 miles of I5 past the OR/CA border seemed intentionally designed to just nail people. The speed limit changed every 1/4-1/2 mile (It's a 65!, no 45!, no 55! It's a 35?!? Now it's a 65 again!), it would arbitrarily change whether you could or couldn't change lanes, it would force you to one lane or the other, and there was a State Trooper sitting on the side of the road about ever 2 miles to catch you when you didn't do what Simon says.

Whenever I read these posts about the high cost of property and taxes in certain states, it just freaks me out! Of course, I live in middle Georgia, alleged to be one of the poorest places in the country. You can still buy a decent house in the city limits for under 50k, and semi-rural property is even cheaper. Land is plentiful and available for less than an arm and a leg. Our sales tax is only 6%, and taxes for modest homes are still reasonable. Sure, we have some McMansion subdivisions, where the houses might run 500k, but these same houses in, say, Atlanta, would go for more than twice that.

It's not like we are Hootersville. Downtown Macon is ~ 4 minutes from my suburb' 4 minutes in the other direction will put you in deep rural surroundings. We have a Symphony, 4 star restaurants, Opera, Museums, and clubs. The social life is there if you want it, but most of the people here are simple folk who would just as soon have a fried fish cookout next to a pond as go "out on the town" in grand style

In my way of thinking, what good is it to make twice as much money at a job, if the area requires twice as much to live in?. Spending power is basically the same, only the amenities change (and they cost more, too).

In the back yard of my modest house (~an acre), I can shoot guns, burn trash, store cars, ride dirt bikes, all without raising the ire of my neighbors (all of whom I know). There is a rec center less than a mile away (gym, pool, courts, games, etc). another mile farther there's a municipal galf course with reasonable green fees. another couple of miles across the river, and I'm in downtown, with plenty to do. If I have to get some big city thrills, Atlanta's an hour away. If I need a beach, Savannah is 3 hours east. We have an airport, two interstates, and a gazillion highways spreading in every direction. Also Colleges and Universities

All of which is nice, I suppose, but the thing I really enjoy about this area is the slow pace. Unlike Atlanta, which is a racetrack-like hustle, Macon is mostly just laid back working folk. It ain't too bad.

ReverendDexter wrote:

rebelgtp wrote: Just remember all you people from PRC stay out of Oregon. Remember there is no sun here and it rains everyday of the year, just how we like it. We also sacrifice you light dwellers to our heathen rain gods by throwing you into one of our many volcanoes.

Oh, don't worry. The general consensus down here is that Oregon is just a one long speed trap on the way to Washington. Seriously, the last time I went up through there, the first 10-20 miles of I5 past the OR/CA border seemed intentionally designed to just nail people. The speed limit changed every 1/4-1/2 mile (It's a 65!, no 45!, no 55! It's a 35?!? Now it's a 65 again!), it would arbitrarily change whether you could or couldn't change lanes, it would force you to one lane or the other, and there was a State Trooper sitting on the side of the road about ever 2 miles to catch you when you didn't do what Simon says.

I totally agree that all 2 of the interstates in Oregon are set-up with arbitrary speedlimit changes with heavy profit motivated enforcement. 5 over will get you a ticket. The secondary roads on the other hand are absolutely fantastic- thousands and thousands of miles of very well designed and maintained sweeping 2 lane under enforced empty bliss. Too bad IT RAINS ALL THE TIME.

Shaun wrote: Too bad IT RAINS ALL THE TIME.

Hey, it's exactly the same on the East Coast this year.