Huxley vs. Orwell

I like this:

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1736/200905amusingourselvest.png

I may need to read this Huxley...sounds like he knows what he is talking about more than that crazy Orwell...1984 is mental.

definitely an interesting concept.

I'd wager a combo of the two will ultimately do us in.

I have read both and I'd say they both are worth reading. However, Orwell has made the most impression on me and I occasionaly see the shadows of the orwellian distopia in current events. The combo may very well be the death blow to free society.

Huxley's 'Brave New World' was way further out there (like the 'decanting' of babies) than Orwell's '1984'. I can say I've seen some of both creeping into society but of the two I more of the '1984' type stuff ('Big Brother', government trying to stick its nose into every aspect of our lives, etc) although nowhere near as pervasive as he wrote of.

The big difference I see between the worlds described in both books and the current state of affairs: there's plenty of people willing to kick and scream when government tries to insinuate itself in everyone's lives and I take great comfort in that.

Entertaining cartoon, but I would say the person wasn't actually familar with Orwell. For 1984 was not about controlling people against their will with pain, it was more about people accepting control from big brother in the name of safety.

I'm well remember some threads on this board shortly after 9/11 having to do with this. For many people were very happy to throw away their freedoms for safety. And, in good 1984 style, those who pointed out that perhaps freedom was more important were ripped into by the livestock.

Huxley's 'Brave New World' was way further out there (like the 'decanting' of babies) than Orwell's '1984'. I can say I've seen some of both creeping into society but of the two I more of the '1984' type stuff

+1 there. I did a little "whoa" when the redlight cameras came out, then a much bigger "whoa" when they started putting LOTS of cameras in some of the bar districts in ATL...with mini-precincts monitoring your every move. THANKS, RAY LEWIS!

Entertaining cartoon, but I would say the person wasn't actually familar with Orwell. For 1984 was not about controlling people against their will with pain, it was more about people accepting control from big brother in the name of safety.

And another +1 there. It's been forever since I've read 1984, but it seems like fear of uncertainty was more the cause of acceptance than fear of "pain."

Boortz was talking about this concept recently; that people have lost sight of what "liberty" means. They want "liberty" when it comes to who they can vote for, or what video game they can buy, or who they choose to be the next American Idol, but when it comes to their own finances, retirement, employment, healthcare, etc., they want a perceived sense of "security," not liberty. That's a frightening truth, IMO.

I disagree. People don't want mere security, they want safety. At all costs. And that's much worse.

In the name of safety the people of America have been enthusiastically throwing away hard won freedoms as fast and as far as they can. No measure goes to far, if they believe it will keep them safe. Wiretaps, torture, shoe inspections, false imprisonments, it's all ok, if it keeps them safe.

If it were just me thinking I was seeing this, you'd be right to suspect I'm a bit of an Orwellian crackpot. But I talk to people, lots of people. And almost without exception they have told me they prefer safety over freedom. That they will give up anything to be kept safe.

The new America is a nation of slavery. Volunteer slavery.

When we were in school we used to laugh at the notion of an American government like Nazi Germany. Remember how we would spoof the line "paper pleeze!"? Today, we can't laugh at it, because it's not a joke. It has now become our reality.

Not because we the people let it happen, but because we the people made it happen.

what's that line? "those who will sacrifice liberty for security deserver neither" or something like that?

Unfortunately, I am one of those people who got ripped apart by the "Sheeple" when I tried to warn about giving away our freedoms.

makes me want to run away to some place safe... like Mexico

I felt that Brave New World was more likely when I first read it (about 10 years ago). I didn't get hung up on the technology aspect because change in that area is so quick and constant. What stuck with me was the "Give me convenience or give me death!" aspect of our society and Huxley's.

1984, on the other hand, has come to pass in so many ways that it's hard to ignore the relevance.

Tifosi2k2 wrote: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin. (May be slightly paraphrased)

You're correct. Adding "essential" and "temporary" changes the meaning a bit.

I think Bradbury will probably turn out to be the most correct.

Animal Farm is berkeleying brilliant.

BAMF wrote: 1984, on the other hand, has come to pass in so many ways that it's hard to ignore the relevance.

You missed it. The story was RENAMED 1984, to make it appear futuristic. When he wrote it, he wrote it about what he was seeing happening, AT THE TIME.

It was never about what could happen, it was about what was happening. Way back in the 1940's.

Lesley wrote: Animal Farm is berkeleying brilliant.

Yes it is. The 'slippery slope' to becoming what they fought against is an eye opener. The ending scene hits hard. A truly cautionary tale.

Osterkraut wrote:

Tifosi2k2 wrote: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin. (May be slightly paraphrased)

You're correct. Adding "essential" and "temporary" changes the meaning a bit. I think Bradbury will probably turn out to be the most correct.

"Fahrenheit 451"?

Stan

+1 on needing to read huxley..... I read 1984 a long time ago

I feel a line worth injecting to this is from Heinlin(sp?)

"You can have freedom, or you can have peace. Don't count on having both at the same time."

stan wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

Tifosi2k2 wrote: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin. (May be slightly paraphrased)

You're correct. Adding "essential" and "temporary" changes the meaning a bit. I think Bradbury will probably turn out to be the most correct.

"Fahrenheit 451"? Stan

I dunno. I don't see government (at least ours) burning books. I have seen NGOs (non-governmental organizations) organize book, record tape and CD etc burnings.

Overseas, now that's a different story. For instance '1984' was banned in the Soviet Bloc countries for decades. I thought that had gone away but the way Putin et al are seeming to backslide I have to wonder.

None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free

-Goethe

Jensenman wrote…

“I dunno. I don't see government (at least ours) burning books”

I see the myriad displays of revisionistic history we’re witnessing as being a modern day expression of book burning.

What do you call it when a bunch of selfless, super smart, Christian guys “formed a more perfect union” with their faith deeply embedded in everything they created from currency to architecture only to have it subjected to a constant state of erosion.

It’s easy to overlook, but if you develop an eye for it, you’ll realize that we’re inundated with analogs to book burning right now in the US.

RX Reven' wrote: Jensenman wrote… “I dunno. I don't see government (at least ours) burning books” I see the myriad displays of revisionistic history we’re witnessing as being a modern day expression of book burning. What do you call it when a bunch of selfless, super smart, Christian guys “formed a more perfect union” with their faith deeply embedded in everything they created from currency to architecture only to have it subjected to a constant state of erosion. It’s easy to overlook, but if you develop an eye for it, you’ll realize that we’re inundated with analogs to book burning right now in the US.

+1. Hey, did you know that Abraham Lincoln fought a war to free the slaves? Lawlz.

Jensenman wrote:

stan wrote:

Osterkraut wrote:

Tifosi2k2 wrote: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin. (May be slightly paraphrased)

You're correct. Adding "essential" and "temporary" changes the meaning a bit. I think Bradbury will probably turn out to be the most correct.

"Fahrenheit 451"? Stan

I dunno. I don't see government (at least ours) burning books. I have seen NGOs (non-governmental organizations) organize book, record tape and CD etc burnings. Overseas, now that's a different story. For instance '1984' was banned in the Soviet Bloc countries for decades. I thought that had gone away but the way Putin et al are seeming to backslide I have to wonder.

Reread it and notice why they're burning the books.

As with most of my generation, I read it when I was young(er). I recently reread it now that I'm old(er). The book took on a whole new meaning.