I drove my summer tires at 29F

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

The summer tires I have now (Conti ECS) will have more grip in the rain than all-seasons do in the dry.  It's all in the tire choices.  And not driving on three year old tires.

 

One of my favorite things about my BFG Sport-Comps was that I could not get them to hydroplane.  Speed was limited by the windshield wipers, which stopped being effective over 90.  The grip with those tires was really good, too,  but the ECSs are better.

Do to a long series of unfortunate events, I had BFG Comp2 on the front and ECS on the rear. I agree with all your points. 

I'm glad this thread has evolved from people one-upping each other with anecdotes about increasingly unsuitable summer tires in worsening winter conditions.

Anyhow, I drove on Pirelli DH slicks in -20 degree weather on a frozen lake and I'm still alive to post this.

But... did you die?

I took a drive through the countryside a couple years ago on non dot straight up hoosier s80 slicks with temps in the 30's.  It was...interesting.  
 

also keith fighting back with facts is not fair

slowbird said:

 AWD cars can't do burnouts, that's just math.

LoL...what?

red_stapler said:

I'm glad this thread has evolved from people one-upping each other with anecdotes about increasingly unsuitable summer tires in worsening winter conditions.

Anyhow, I drove on Pirelli DH slicks in -20 degree weather on a frozen lake and I'm still alive to post this.

One of the advantages I have:  It is extraordinarily flat around here. I do not have to deal with any sort of hills what-so-ever.  One of the benefits of living close to the ocean in the mid-atlantic region.  I am certain that if I had hills to negotiate,  Summer Tyres in the snow would have killed me. 

I had a bunch of rivals and rs4 tires in my garage for my champcar.  The furnace quit and the garage got down to around 10 to 15 degrees.

All of the tires had cracks in the sidewalls after that.  Had to throw them all away.

Some of the tires were mounted on wheels, some were just loose.

Weirdly, the 4 tires on the car did not crack. 

I'm not saying don't do it, but I have seen what can happen and would avoid if possible.

I did not die.

red_stapler said:

I'm glad this thread has evolved from people one-upping each other with anecdotes about increasingly unsuitable summer tires in worsening winter conditions.

Oh yeah?  Well, I drove on Eagle STs when it was 45 degrees out and nearly slid off dry asphalt like my car was a Big Wheel.  Very dramatic difference in feel compared to warm weather, there was no sensation of building grip before breaking away, they just skated across without any adhesion.

Spooky.

The funny: ST were all season tires.

The stupid: They also were ten years old BEFORE i bought them and put 20k on them.  Old tires are old, even if they spent that life in a warehouse.

Stuff like that is why I life out tires before they are worn out, and choose tires based on grip and not longevity.  Tires are ephemeral creatures.

Did I mention the ECSs are awesome??

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

+1 for using ephemeral in a tire reference.

I drove my 88 4+3 C4 home in an icestorm on Kumho 712's(?) summer tires. I remember climbing the hill on 465 over meridian st in 4th gear at 35mph with my foot wedged against the tunnel. Any twitch and that torque was sending me places I didn't want to go. That was the longest hour of driving I ever did. The torque that motor made was crazy and would overwhelm the tires in rain. at 25*F and ice? yeah...... 

red_stapler said:

I'm glad this thread has evolved from people one-upping each other with anecdotes about increasingly unsuitable summer tires in worsening winter conditions.

Anyhow, I drove on Pirelli DH slicks in -20 degree weather on a frozen lake and I'm still alive to post this.

I've been telling people that story for years because everyone thinks they are suddenly going to die if they drive summer tires when its cold. 

Do they have a lot less grip? Of course. So you drive according to your equipment and the conditions. This type of common sense seems to be leaving the world as a whole.

Because I was forced to, I've also driven my old '13 Mustang GT track pack on Pirelli P-Zero's in slush, my old '15 BRZ on Star Specs in Slush, and my old 135 on Pilot Super Sports in Slush. All RWD sports cars on summer tires. They didn't crack or break and I didn't die or crash.

Certain summer tires can legitimately crack in the cold - Toyo seems particularly concerned about it and we've seen a report of it here. But most of the time, it's a dramatic drop in traction levels around freezing that's the big problem.

First track day I did in Colorado had me drive over to Pueblo and come home that night. Over Monarch Pass, which is twisty and squirrely. In a snowstorm. On badly worn Toyo T1+ tires. IIRC I had enough traction to maintain forward momentum but no more. Wasn't the only time I was in that situation in that car.

I also found myself in snow on Donner Pass in a stripped out rally Miata (4 cylinder mode) with no heater and some worn out RA1s. Running solo and no cellphone. In all of those cases, I was wishing for better tires. My street Miata runs dedicated snows in the winter because they only have to save your bacon once to be worth the investment.

I've ridden my motorcycle in light snow.   0/10 would not recommend it.

Keith Tanner said:

Certain summer tires can legitimately crack in the cold - Toyo seems particularly concerned about it and we've seen a report of it here. 

Really wish I could find the images.  There was a cold snap at one of the major stage rallies (LSPR?) and someone's gravel tires shattered from the weight of the car being on them overnight.  Sidewalls were shards of rubber and radial cords.

Grtechguy said:

I've ridden my motorcycle in light snow.   0/10 would not recommend it.

I've ridden a bicycle on a frozen canal being used as a skating rink, while using studded tires. Everything worked fine until all of a sudden it very much did not.

Keith Tanner said:

Certain summer tires can legitimately crack in the cold - Toyo seems particularly concerned about it and we've seen a report of it here. But most of the time, it's a dramatic drop in traction levels around freezing that's the big problem.

First track day I did in Colorado had me drive over to Pueblo and come home that night. Over Monarch Pass, which is twisty and squirrely. In a snowstorm. On badly worn Toyo T1+ tires. IIRC I had enough traction to maintain forward momentum but no more. Wasn't the only time I was in that situation in that car.

I also found myself in snow on Donner Pass in a stripped out rally Miata (4 cylinder mode) with no heater and some worn out RA1s. Running solo and no cellphone. In all of those cases, I was wishing for better tires. My street Miata runs dedicated snows in the winter because they only have to save your bacon once to be worth the investment.

Oh I know. I think the problem is that many people confuse "possible" with "probable."

I wouldn't make a regular practice of it, but I had paid for a track day and I was going!

Keith Tanner said:

Grtechguy said:

I've ridden my motorcycle in light snow.   0/10 would not recommend it.

I've ridden a bicycle on a frozen canal being used as a skating rink, while using studded tires. Everything worked fine until all of a sudden it very much did not.

I ride my mountain bike in the winter all the time. I run 27.5x3" tires at about 13 psi. It's got more traction than most cars unless I'm on solid ice...

RIP to all the brave souls in this thread. You won't be forgetten.

I once drove 8 miles too work in blizzard conditions with level 3 road closures on Mickey Thompson ET streets rear and 5 inch wide front tires. I'm amazed I survived and enough people no showed for work we got paid to sit in the break room all day and eat pizza.

Recon1342 said:

Keith Tanner said:

Grtechguy said:

I've ridden my motorcycle in light snow.   0/10 would not recommend it.

I've ridden a bicycle on a frozen canal being used as a skating rink, while using studded tires. Everything worked fine until all of a sudden it very much did not.

I ride my mountain bike in the winter all the time. I run 27.5x3" tires at about 13 psi. It's got more traction than most cars unless I'm on solid ice...

 

Oh, I used to commute in the Canadian winter by bike, back before mountain bikers had discovered 700 mm wheels :) Gotta watch for them slush piles. But there's a reason I specified a 5 mile long skating rink. Solid ice is a different creature. As soon as you're 1 degree off vertical, you're 90 degrees off vertical.

I drove my fred flintstone mobile up hill both ways in the snow with summer tires and onlydied 4 times.

Keith Tanner said:

Grtechguy said:

I've ridden my motorcycle in light snow.   0/10 would not recommend it.

I've ridden a bicycle on a frozen canal being used as a skating rink, while using studded tires. Everything worked fine until all of a sudden it very much did not.

I used to ride my RAZZ in the snow and do donuts when I was 14. Highly recommend that unless you want to actually GO somewhere. Then not advisable. 

In college, the Impala SS had Pirelli summer-only tires.  I forget which ones, but they were basically the DOT race rubber.  I had to call AAA one night to tow me 6".  I parallel parked, the pavement froze, and I couldn't move.  When I took my foot off the brake, both rear wheels just spun in place.  I let them go like that for a while thinking the friction would melt the ice, but no dice.  Tow truck hooked up the cable and pulled me 6" off the little ice patches and I was good.

I think one of my favorite memories from the acura dealership was the day before christmas eve we were getting a hugenormous snow storm. So all hands on deck to move the inventory so the trucks could plow the lots. Only 3 of us could drive manual transmission cars that day, and I got the keys to a TL-S with the Bridgestone Summer tires. By this point we already had 6" of snow and a thin layer of ice under it. That car was useless with the traction control on. I had to turn that off and just burn through the ice and snow until it found pavement and lurched forward enough to bust through the drift in front of it. I put 4 miles on that car driving it 800'. 

Well, I guess my experience was trivial but It sure started an interesting page.   Cheers