In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
They are a joke, and what's even scarier is that there are peope that manage to fail the test multiple times and still get a license.
California license written test was easier than PA was, despite being longer.
It's all in the sign, really. Because the lane ends ahead, merge now. If you have the space to merge now, merge now. The sign is saying "you can do the cool thing now before you have to panic merge when the diphead won't let you (or won't see you, more likely) down there at the "zipper".
If the traffic to the left is doing 20 mph less than you'd like, then zip on up. But if the difference is 5 mph or less, tap the brake and get in the cool lane.
When someone lingers in the right lane I'm thinking, "what's he still doing out there?" When they merge i kinda go, "they're accounted for". Out in traffic I like everyone accounted for.
"Merge point" sounds arbitrarily pointed, really. If there's a half mile to merge, don't force things at a point. Signal and ease over when it's easy. It's not overtaking or losing a position outside the track gates. It's just getting to work or home.
Mad ramblings I know.
Steve_Jones said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:The advocates of this always say the same thing... "As long as nobody's a douche..."
How's that working out?
Ok, so what's the fix? Blocking the lane you're not in is a douche move considering the guy you're blocking is doing it correctly. Is that the fix? Be a douche too?
If we've learned anything in the last few years it's that there's nothing more American than being a douche because someone else might be. We're a nation of preemptive shiny happy people.
Signs that indicate how far ahead things are and not giving people excessively advanced warning would help a lot.
I've been in a situation where the signs for the merge were WAAAAAAAY far back and people were merging back there, because they thought the signs said to. Instead maybe say "road work ahead 1 km", then "lane ends in 500m", "merge in 250m" and so on. Road works signs put up too far back and when there's no work being done (especially during commutes) desensitize people to those signs and I would say likely make it more dangerous for any workers. If someone's like "berk this, there's no work here, I'll speed up", then they come across the work doing normal speeds, that's dangerous.
Steve_Jones said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:The advocates of this always say the same thing... "As long as nobody's a douche..."
How's that working out?
Ok, so what's the fix? Blocking the lane you're not in is a douche move considering the guy you're blocking is doing it correctly. Is that the fix? Be a douche too?
There's not a "fix". As Wally noted, lane closures suck.
The fix is for everybody to stop being so damned impatient and wait until they can get through the mess safely.
While they are waiting they can be thankful there are people out there willing to risk their lives in traffic so they can have better roads.
Why do we think we need to "fix" it?
In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
One of the most frustrating parts of my job is dealing with an impatient population who demands a fix for every inconvenience. When there is one my people and I are happy to find and implement it. But sometimes what we're doing is the least disruptive of many bad options and you're ride will take longer than expected. I can never give that answer instead a lot of time has to be wasted on trying "better ideas" that cost money we could better spend elsewhere to satisfy people with little knowledge of the actual problem.
I'm typically a super-chill driver. I'm one of those annoying people who drives the speed limit. But hey, I saved 15% or more on my car insurance by switching to a clean driving record.
Just yesterday I was going about 60 in a 55. 18 wheeler behind me at a safe distance. Some weirdo in a van came blasting up the left lane at about 80, ducked in behind me to make an exit (that was still 1/2 mile away) and started all the drama... flashing high beams, honking, and gesturing out the window. He finally floored to go around me and cut me off close enough I had to swerve.
Ironically, there was next to no traffic on the highway. He could have simply stayed at 80 in the left lane and he had 1/2 mile of zero traffic ahead to make the exit. I wonder what he was thinking.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Steve_Jones said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:The advocates of this always say the same thing... "As long as nobody's a douche..."
How's that working out?
Ok, so what's the fix? Blocking the lane you're not in is a douche move considering the guy you're blocking is doing it correctly. Is that the fix? Be a douche too?
There's not a "fix". As Wally noted, lane closures suck.
The fix is for everybody to stop being so damned impatient and wait until they can get through the mess safely.
While they are waiting they can be thankful there are people out there willing to risk their lives in traffic so they can have better roads.
Why do we think we need to "fix" it?
I don't think he was asking how to fix lane closures, he was asking how do we fix the fact that drivers are doing dumb things
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
One of the most frustrating parts of my job is dealing with an impatient population who demands a fix for every inconvenience. When there is one my people and I are happy to find and implement it. But sometimes what we're doing is the least disruptive of many bad options and you're ride will take longer than expected. I can never give that answer instead a lot of time has to be wasted on trying "better ideas" that cost money we could better spend elsewhere to satisfy people with little knowledge of the actual problem.
Agreed. If we could learn to know where responsibility lies... and take ownership of it when it is our own.... we'd be a lot better society.
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to SVreX (Forum Supporter) :
One of the most frustrating parts of my job is dealing with an impatient population who demands a fix for every inconvenience. When there is one my people and I are happy to find and implement it. But sometimes what we're doing is the least disruptive of many bad options and you're ride will take longer than expected. I can never give that answer instead a lot of time has to be wasted on trying "better ideas" that cost money we could better spend elsewhere to satisfy people with little knowledge of the actual problem.
I think that's everyone's job anymore, or at least most people.
I'm not the most social of people but the thing that has struck the most is how much more entitled people are in the last few years, I swear it wasn't always like that.
Sideways rant to the original rant
Dunno. People are jerks. I can't tell you how many people have told me they'd open their door into me if they saw me lane splitting on my motorcycle. Just because I should have to wait in traffic because they do too. Regardless of the fact that what they're saying they'd do could kill or seriously hurt me, WTF? That just shows the mentality people have, a serious F the other guy attitude...
docwyte said:Dunno. People are jerks. I can't tell you how many people have told me they'd open their door into me if they saw me lane splitting on my motorcycle. Just because I should have to wait in traffic because they do too. Regardless of the fact that what they're saying they'd do could kill or seriously hurt me, WTF? That just shows the mentality people have, a serious F the other guy attitude...
100% This. Crabs in a bucket.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
I wonder what he was thinking.
I see the problem here.
Everyone gets through faster at the sacrifice of a few. You'll lose a few places sometimes, and a some other guys jump a few places but everyone moves through much smoother.
But there are too many douches on both sides. A whole lot of ME, ME, ME. 'I see a tiny opening so I can ride the shoulder and dive in' along with 'I'll just drive in the middle of both my lane and the onramp because no one deserves to be in front of me'
What really bugs me is when guys jump out of line on the freeway and drive up the "empty" onramp lane to skip a whole 6 cars. Really buddy? That saved you how much time?
In reply to iansane :
Ok, but it probably didn't COST you any time either.
No reason to let it bug you.
Typically, I want to make sure I'm in the right lane as soon as is feasible. I don't want to force my way over three miles before the lane ends, but if I know I need to be in a particular lane anyway, it's not the left lane, and there's an opening, I'll go ahead and take it. As we approach the closing of the zipper, I'll leave a couple car lengths so that folks can go ahead and get over. Ideally, every car in the continuing lane lets in 1 car from the ending lane, and we all get there without too much delay. What makes the vein in my forehead pop out, though, is when I'm leaving copious space in front of me, the closing lane is basically empty for about 10-15 cars back, we're 4 or 5 cars from the closing of the zipper, basically at a standstill, and people blow past me, usually on the right, to get right up to the close and come over. I see that on the on-ramps during heavy traffic all the time around here.
I have nearly been sideswiped and have seen near-sideswipes of other people a few times by folks that decide they don't want to wait in the line of cars and drive in either the shoulder or the center turn lane - at speed! - for a quarter mile or more. That type of behaviour is far more dangerous than waiting until the last minute on a zipper merge. You've got someone who is either at the point where the not-a-lane becomes a lane or they also decide that they're going to use the not-a-lane, they pull in to it not expecting or not being able to see a car barreling along at fifty miles an hour, and things get really hairy really fast.
My choice between merging early or late depends on traffic.
Some days, everyone has their brains in gear and traffic is flowing smoothly. Generally, I will merge early and go with the flow.
Some days, a large number of my fellow drivers have their heads in the clouds or eyes on the phones. In that case, I'm going to put as many of them behind me as I can.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Steve_Jones said:For those saying it doesn't work, what's the fix?
Plain and simple: Education.
In the US, you have to show that you can parallel park, observe the speed limit, and use a turn signal during a 600-foot course before someone signs off on your license, and it costs minimal dollars. We like to say that "driving is a privilege, not a right," but if you can demonstrate that you know the difference between a brake pedal and a steering wheel, you get a license. It's as close to a right as you can get. If you cause an accident, your insurance rates might go up a few dollars. In Germany, you have to take a 45-hour intensive course with a professional driver, the course and license cost about $2000, and if you cause an accident, the police can seize your license and car on the spot. Much higher motivation to understand traffic dynamics. This is why the Autobahn is one of the safest highways in the world while the 405 in L.A. is one of the deadliest. Our requirements for driver licensing are a joke.
As a DE instructor I wholeheartedly support this. I would however say better education not just education. We have DE in this country. It needs to be better.
And as for being douchey, too many people think they're in a berkeleying Nascar race and gotta be there first. Guess what? There's no prize, no trophy girl, no contract waiting for you on the other side. So what if they came along after you, took the open lane and merged later? What the hell did you lose? Nothing. Stay in your lane, use both appropriately, and move on.
Good evening everyone I'm 759NRNG and I'm a preemptive shiny happy person thank you very much...watch you dadgum mirrors y'all.....what happens behind me matters NOT!!!
In reply to 759NRNG :
Remember what I said about curbs and barrels. I drive a $500 beater. I'll kill us both. 
So the theory is use all available lanes until the merge, then alternate lanes to merge and continue on in the open lane, correct?
It looks like we have people here that move over earlier get mad when someone uses the open lane? What makes the spot you move over the right one?
I will agree the right spot is based on the situation. If traffic is light then the merge should happen early enough to avoid disrupting the flow of traffic and everyone can keep moving along smoothly.
Seems tangential, but it connects...
In college there was a shop on campus where I liked to buy my coffee. I had a rapport with the guy who ran it. I'd circumvent the line, walk up, drop exact change (or round up for tip) on the counter, and fill up my travel mug at the carafe off to the side. You could see the frustration and brains crunching of the people waiting in line. Fact was, I was making everyone's life easier and saving everyone time by removing myself as a part of the equation that slowed down how fast everything got processed.
This is how being selfish in a zipper (or other) merge is *supposed* to work.
I love them around here because most people don't know how to properly merge. Ohioans seem to enjoy waiting in lines that I can easily go around. I'm also usually driving manual and want to maintain a constant speed, and not stop and go if I can avoid it at all.
So... pick the lane that's rolling and get out of the accordion. Pick a relatively constant speed. Watch the accordion. Wait for things to hit a smooth pace. Make slight adjustment to merge in smoothly. Ideally, where you can get into and then out of the accordion lane in as little time as possible.
Congratulations, you're moving twice as fast as everyone else, but you're minimizing your impact on the total flow that has to be processed.
Nope. Most people don't understand how to do this properly. They're either idiots or asshats. Do you know whose problem that isn't? Mine. I will take advantage of a road feature that saves me time and stress in a way that doe not negatively impact others except for being frustrated that, "That guy is going faster than me!"
In theory it would seem the zipper merge would work best if BOTH lanes ended, and traffic was funneled onto the striped line, then move the single line of cars to the continuing lane.
Zipper merges, like roundabouts and several other traffic innovations, only work if everyone agrees to the social construct that allows for better flow. In the US, you have the three Ds of drivers (Distracted, Douchebags and Diesel Pickups) that keep these innovations from working. If you want to make a zipper merge work in the US, you need physical railings instead of lane lines, or perhaps a monitor with a Gatling gun to mow down anyone not complying?
Grtechguy said:That's fine. You can sit in traffic and I'll be the shiny happy person that uses the open lane till the end.
I don't like sitting in traffic
Just, one request. Don't block the open lane thinking you are helping the situation.
Ugh.
I sat through three light cycles in road construction because of some entitled d-bag blocking the lane that was closing so nobody could drive down it.
I was trying to get to a side street before the road construction bottleneck. But was being blocked by D-bag in a CRV.
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