I was just asked for my daughter's hand

Put me in the "don't see a need; it isn't the parents' decision; she does not belong to her father" camp. Heck, when I started dating my now fiancee and spent some time at her parents' place, her father asked me "What are your intentions with my daughter?" My response was, "She is an adult and intentions and what happen are as much up to her as they are to me."

I would argue that if you feel it is courtesy to check with the FiL but not the MiL, maybe there is an element of sexism going on.

Went through it last autumn...

Fiance's parents had a divorce when she was 10ish and dad was never really in the picture after that.

Had to ask the soon to be MIL...

She cried and said of course, even went with me to the jewelers to have the ring refinished (heirloom ring from my family).

saving up for a sept 2014 wedding

I never understood the whole ask the father thing.

To me, it implies the girl isn't independent enough to make her own decisions.

It has nothing to do with actually asking for her hand, they will do what they will do.

It's more about building harmony. Getting married isn't just about the 2 that are doing it. It is a melding of at least 2 different families and all the baggage of both and it affects everyone. It can be made something joyous and it can just as easily be made into a nightmare.

It's also about respect, but that seems to be in short supply. As you get older you understand consequences better because you've seen so many things that didn't have to turn out so badly.

In some instances getting married to the wrong person or under the wrong circumstances also means they are divorcing their families. That's not something to be taken lightly.

I divorced my family and I wouldn't do anything differently today, but my family was a special circumstance.

In reply to carguy123:

Then both parties should be talking to all four parents adking for their blessing to join the two families together.

Beer Baron wrote: In reply to carguy123: Then both parties should be talking to all four parents asking for their blessing to join the two families together.

You are right. In the ideal world there'd not be much talking to be done. Time and actions would have made it unnecessary. It would b e a given that everyone is happy with the pairing so marriage is the next logical step as they've already been integrated into the family. Getting engaged is supposed to be a joyous happening and not a nerve wracking one.

Now here's the latest. Apparently my daughter has spent a lot of time with his 'rents, but he's actively blocking us from getting together with his parents until after he pops the question. We have to wonder why, and also why he's not been forthcoming about other things. I mean if he went so far as to ask us to give our blessings you'd think he would have been trying to really ingratiate himself into the family. In other words trying to sell us on the idea.

Since I wasn't bowled over with his offer to take my daughter off my hands and wanted to know a little something about him, he's being even more evasive than normal about talking about himself and is avoiding the whole family. (daughter is in L.A. working for a week or 2).

So a Blessing is definitely out of the question. His active evasiveness makes our radar go crazy and now my wife is wondering if we shouldn't be proactive and talk to my daughter "before she makes a terrible mistake!"

I'm a little more let's give our girl a little credit. Also since she hasn't talked to anyone about the possibility of getting married we could hope she just tells him they need to wait a while longer. Unfortunately she doesn't know the whole family has reservations about him since we didn't want to complicate her relationship. We've talked amongst ourselves but never expressed reservations to her because we didn't think this was that kind of relationship yet. So we're worried that she'll be caught off guard by the grand event he has planned might make her go with the moment. Seems to be a you're damned if you do and damned if you don't type of situation developing.

I come from a dysfunctional family and my life didn't truly begin until I got married and got away from family. We've sheltered our kids from that kind of atmosphere so she's not really aware of how degrading a life tied to the wrong person can be and that's presuming he's not abusive.

When your kids get married you want to be joyous about their choices. You want it to be that you are actively rooting for them to get married and want it to be that you'd like to go up to the young man and beg him to ask your daughter. Then you want them to ride off in the sunset on a white charger. Yeah right! At the very least you want their life to be better and easier than yours.

We also have just found out he's basically on the rebound from a 5 year relationship that went bad about a month before he met our daughter.

He could be the best guy on the whole planet and might be the best husband in the whole wide world, but at this stage how would we know. Are we being overly protective and we should be rooting for him? It's telling that after 9 months not a soul in our family feels they know him at all and all are worried.

When the group is together he's the one trying too hard. Laughing too loud, seeming insincere, like a car salesman. At first we thought we intimidated him since ours is a tight, loud and boisterous group. This is literally all we know about him after a 9 month relationship. Would this make you nervous?

His name. He is about the same age as our daughter. He was an Eagle Scout. He works selling some sort of health supplements. We think he went to some college, but we're not sure His Mom & Dad are divorced. He likes his Stepdad. He drives an Altima He is not supposed to have an ex-wife or any kids. (And getting this particular piece of information took over 2 months to get) His Mom is protective also and sat my daughter down at the very beginning of their relationship and more or less asked her "intentions". Sort of the same thing we are doing.

I told my son about it and swore him to secrecy so that I could get his take on it. He was so incensed about it that I'll have trouble keeping him from telling his other sister. I found out he doesn't trust the guy. He's been holding it in rather than ruin it for my daughter.

I seem to have the least reservations of anyone else in my family. Can all of us be that far off in our reactions to him?

Oy Vey!! I remember the easy days of parenting, colic, car wrecks, dating, being broke buying clothes. I thought it was supposed to get easier when they moved away.

Brett_Murphy wrote:

I would think by the time you go to ask SWMBO if she wants to get hitched, you'd have a pretty good idea if asking her family's permission is appreciated or not.

You missed my point. It is very likely I would've broken up with somebody if they came from a family that had a person in it that expected that. I don't want in-laws like that, and I'm certain they would not have liked me as a family member, either. For the record, my wife and I have been together for almost 15 years. We got married at the courthouse. We didn't invite anybody, we just did it. I get along great with her family, she gets along great with mine. Granted, neither one of our families is quite sure of the other to this day (she is a country girl from rural North Carolina, I'm a danged Yankee from New York), but it works well for us.

Know how that works, she's from coal town WV, I'm a smart alleckey military brat. I've seen both coasts, and both north and south borders of the US, she's never seen anything but, WV, NC, and FL. Two different worlds, but hey we make it work.

Okay, enough of my feelings about marriage in general and on to the specific situation you're dealing with.

I've trimmed down what you wrote to the important points:

carguy123 wrote: Apparently my daughter has spent a lot of time with his 'rents, but he's actively blocking us from getting together with his parents until after he pops the question. he's being even more evasive than normal about talking about himself and is avoiding the whole family. His active evasiveness makes our radar go crazy and now my wife is wondering if we shouldn't be proactive and talk to my daughter "before she makes a terrible mistake!" It's telling that after 9 months not a soul in our family feels they know him at all and all are worried. This is literally all we know about him after a 9 month relationship. I found out [my son] doesn't trust the guy. He's been holding it in rather than ruin it for my daughter. I seem to have the least reservations of anyone else in my family. Can all of us be that far off in our reactions to him?

You could all be that far off. But you might not. If you're all getting a bunch of big red flags on the guy, you should think about why you might all be so nervous. You may decide that all is well and everything is fine, but it is better to be prudent.

Now... what do you do about it? That's the tough question. I'd say you need to be a bit proactive and discuss things with your daughter. Maybe not spill the beans that he plans to propose, but ask her about her feelings about where the relationship is at, where it's going, and what she's comfortable with. You could potentially lead her to deciding that she is not ready to get married yet (9 months seems awfully quick) and that will make it easier for her to say, "let's give it more time," when he asks.

Alternately, engagements are not binding contracts. Until all the legal paperwork is signed, they can always be backed out of. If they get engaged, and you continue to not feel comfortable, you can urge her to keep extending and extending the engagement until the honeymoon wears off and she sees everything soberly.

Beer Baron I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've been up since 3 a.m. wrestling with this issue. For me writing things down or talking about it with someone usually lets me realize what the problem is or what the solution is. Many times I find I don't really know what I truly think about something until I have to verbalize it or write it down. But when I go to say it or write it I realize what should be said.

For the past 2 hours I've been writing my wife a note spelling out all my doubts & fears because I didn't want to wake her and because if we got to talking we might go off on a tangent & I might not get said all I want to say. In doing this I'd come to the same conclusions you did and realized that while I thought I wasn't for or against, I am actually against UNLESS I get some positive feedback from my daughter.

I've been trying to figure out how can I talk to her without her wondering why I'm worried about this right now when she knows THE GRAND GESTURE is coming on the 15th. 2+2 usually equals 4.

I don't want to spoil her special moment, presuming it is a special moment.

The trouble with THE GRAND GESTURE is that it's usually an all or nothing type of thing.

It's played out so many times on TV, movies and in books with the person saying NO being the bad guy. In that situation it's tough for her to say "Not now, let's wait a while and let this thing grow so we can be sure" .

And if we are at THE GRAND GESTURE that's giving tacit blessing to it and tells her we think she ought to say yes. We definitely can't stop in the middle of his proposal and say we've got reservations.

I know first hand how living with the wrong person and always having to look over your shoulder can destroy any fun to your life. I don't want her trapped in a loveless (and possibly abusive) marriage and have all the energy and life sucked out of her being. And by abusive I don't necessarily mean physical abuse, but being trapped in the wrong situation with the wrong person and to have to listen to him pick on her and hold her down and hold her back is a form of abuse.

When he & I were laughing & talking I jokingly told him I had to ask the expected question of "How are you going to support my daughter and what are your prospects for the future". When I did I was met with a blank stare. At that point I decided this needed to become a serious question. So I restated it and asked exactly what it was he did. His answer was "sales".

I had to ask who he worked for and what he sold. I got what he sold, but not who he works for. When I asked about his position there and his potential for advancement it was clear to see he'd had no thoughts towards tomorrow. No thoughts whatsoever. He had no goal, no place he wanted to be. From the blank look on his face it showed he hadn't thought that far ahead at all. When I then asked "Well, is there room for advancement at your company?" He said he didn't want to go in to management because the salesmen make more money than management and if the company went under he could always get another job.

I said all that to go back to the comments about a bad marriage and being held down or held back. It threw him when I introduced the thought that my daughter's career might be a factor in anything and asked what happens if she needed to move back to Hollywood. You could tell it was a new thought to him. She makes several times what he makes and has potential to make megabucks.

One thing I've realized is that the lowest point in my wife & I's relationship is how some people live everyday. They never expect things to get better. Fighting = marriage. I don't want that for any of my kids.

I believe a soured boy friend relationship is much better than a soured marriage situation. For sure there are no kids to worry about.

I don't have to live with the guy, but we'll all sure have to live with the consequences be they good or be they bad. In the end they are going to do what they will do, but as someone else said, as a Dad this is the last time I've got to help & protect my little girl.

Thanx for letting me spout off, it does help to crystallize your thoughts & feelings. Who knew a GRM shrink!

what I'd propose would totally depend on your relationship with your daughter ... if it's really really good, I'd say screw the special moment, and explain to her EXACTLY what you know, what your concerns are, and that ... while you're not trying to run/ruin her life/special moment, you have huge concerns about how this could turn out .... emphasize that you certainly aren't trying to stand in her way ... but also emphasize that you have these concerns and hope she's already looked into them .... if all is good for her, then apologize for spoiling the moment and suggest she use her acting skills for when he "pops" the question ... the long lasting traumatic consequences of not addressing these concerns is far greater than the "special" moment ... 'course it all depends on your relationship with her ....

If you tell your daughter you don't like her fiance, she'll probably tell you to go pound sand and never speak to you again. Pretty much no one will actually listen to friends, family, or peers when it comes to getting told their significant other is a loser.

This is why I don't understand the whole ask-the-father thing. It's not like it's going to change anything. And if a guy asking your daughter to marry him without your permission or "blessing" is insulting and disrespectful to you, maybe you need to become a little more secure in who you are.

He was an Eagle Scout.

You do realize this approximately triples the chances that he is an axe murderer.

Sorry, just trying to inject a little levity into a tough situation.

I don't really know what to offer, except that I think you're basically on the right track. We wrestled with my daughter's choices in friends when she was younger (she's now 20). She always seemed to gravitate towards the self-absorbed, "friend-in-need-friend-indeed" types or basket cases with a lot of family issues. We had limited success making her see the imbalance in most of her relationships, BUT, she has begun to recognize the type now and is making better choices.

I think you need to talk to your daughter, but really really really do your utmost to avoid coming out and saying you don't like/trust him. I would simply emphasize that you know very little about him, mention that he's not helping improve that situation much, and that you just want her to be sure of whatever she decides before she decides it.

Good luck, man. I feel for you.

Random thoughts - I think it's odd that he's being reserved with answers, but I also think it's odd that he's been dating your daughter for 9 months without you knowing what he does for a living. Hell - when I meet a stranger at a party I don't think 2 minutes passes before someone says "So, what do you do?" So, with those basic tenets of even an acquaintance relationship not being in place, it's easy to see where things get wonky when it's time to get real.

I think that you asking for resume, credit scores, etc. is WEIRD. I could totally see him being put on the defensive once you went weird.

I do think that at this point, staying bottled is not productive. Without giving away the secret, I would talk to your daughter. Get her take on where the relationship is. Is she happy? Can she see herself marrying him? She doesn't have to know he's talked to you for these to be valid questions for a father to ask his daughter.

Our relationship is such that we can talk to all of our kids, but as you say, the HOW to do it is the problem.

I actually think we could tell our daughter we think her boyfriend sucks and she'd just try to convince her otherwise, but the fact we wouldn't do that unless we felt it was a huge deal is probably why we can. The big issue is how to approach this so that it doesn't potentially ruin her big surprise.

When I woke up this morning the note made my wife come clean with me. She's had a conversation with the young man after mine which makes me feel somewhat better. It still doesn't calm all the fears, but it has said he hasn't just been blowing us off. Of course now it makes me a little mad at my wife for not telling me. She said she was saving it for the right moment.

We had wanted to meet his parents and he'd called to tell my wife they couldn't do it this weekend. Why my wife didn't tell me that I don't know because just last night we were trying to plan our weekend and we couldn't because we still hadn't heard from Suitor #1.

Since we can't meet with him or his parents prior to The Grand Event I am going over to my daughter's house this next week to have a sit down with her. We've concocted a good excuse that shouldn't blow it. If I find out she doesn't feel that way about him yet we've decided to let my daughter know what's up so that she can find a way to let him down easy so that it doesn't ruin a budding relationship.

And to top it all off my wife tells me that she slept so hard last night it's been tough for her to wake up - if only!!!

I would sit down with your daughter and ask her what she sees for her future. It'll be interesting to see what she has planned, and if she mentions the potential suitor in her plans.

Honestly, it's probably less important what his short-term goals are, and more important if he and your daughter have thought through where they'll live, if/when they'll have kids, and how they'll care for the kids (i.e. he stays home, she stays home, daycare, etc.). The short-term is pretty easy if they both have jobs, the longer-term is what makes or breaks most couples today.

dj06482 wrote: I would sit down with your daughter and ask her what she sees for her future. It'll be interesting to see what she has planned, and if she mentions the potential suitor in her plans. Honestly, it's probably less important what his short-term goals are, and more important if he and your daughter have thought through where they'll live, if/when they'll have kids, and how they'll care for the kids (i.e. he stays home, she stays home, daycare, etc.). The short-term is pretty easy if they both have jobs, the longer-term is what makes or breaks most couples today.

That approach could work very well and might even be a better lead in that what we'd planned. It's good because she'll be fresh back from Hollywood for a shoot and she'll think I'm wondering about that side of her life.

You are right about the long term events. Many people never discuss them until it happens. I know we didn't, so why should I expect more from my kids.

I know where they'll live since she just bought a house last year.

My son was so concerned that he's told the guy that he knows about the plan and has arranged a sit down with him. The goal is to get to know him well enough to relax. It doesn't matter if he talks to me or talks to another family member.

A friend of ours just had this happen last summer and it didn't turn out so well. The groom was an unknown to everyone and sure enough she's 8.5 months pregnant and he's nowhere to be found. Experience is the best teacher unfortunately people would rather look to their own experiences rather than learn from other people's mistakes. They all say "That'll never happen to me."

It's a tough situation, and I think you're doing the right thing by wanting to get to know him better. I have a feeling that she might be even more surprised by the potential proposal than you were

carguy123 wrote: When I woke up this morning the note made my wife come clean with me. She's had a conversation with the young man after mine which makes me feel somewhat better. It still doesn't calm all the fears, but it has said he hasn't just been blowing us off. Of course now it makes me a little mad at my wife for not telling me. She said she was saving it for the right moment.

Maybe another tactic is to have your wife talk to him and have her get the information you want out of him. Although your fears are rational, you may have come on too strong with him and put him on the defensive. Even if you back waaaaay off, he'll still be cautious with you. If he's more comfortable with your wife, have her be the one to get the information from him.

Also, find out what he likes to do. Go out someplace where he is in his element and comfortable so that he relaxes and opens up more.

I would not be concerned that he needs to be able to provide for your daughter. Sounds like she can provide for herself. I can not provide for my fiancee (well, maybe in an emergency if she happens to lose her job or something); she's makes about double what I do right now. You want to know that he is not going to be a mooch or dead weight and will work in the relationship in one form or another to contribute to their well being. Even if that is raising kids and doing home repairs.

DILYSI Dave wrote: I think that you asking for resume, credit scores, etc. is WEIRD. I could totally see him being put on the defensive once you went weird.

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that. I don't know how I would have reacted if my FIL had asked me that initially.....probably laughed and walked out ....or asked for his in return...that's so bizarre I'm just not sure.

Cotton wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: I think that you asking for resume, credit scores, etc. is WEIRD. I could totally see him being put on the defensive once you went weird.

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that. I don't know how I would have reacted if my FIL had asked me that initially.....probably laughed and walked out ....or asked for his in return...that's so bizarre I'm just not sure.

Yup. What I would do. Frankly I've got less respect for the guy since he doesn't have the balls to just tell you he plans to ask your daughter to marry him, and that he doesn't tell you to go pound sand when you ask for a resume and credit report.

You went full "Meet the Parents" on him and wonder why he is nervous? Frankly if the guy is stll talking to you he either means well or is a serious glutton for punishment. I fully understand your daughter is the most important thing in the world to you but you are thinking way too much.

If you want the guy to open up do the most un-fatherly thing you can, have the guy out for a beer (somewhere he pickes) and apologize about the credit score, the resume. the doubt, the interogation, the plan that is going to ruin what should be the most special event in your daughter's relationship with him. After this let the conversation happen, you dont need common ground, you dont have to like each other but just talk about whatever he wants you will learn all you need to know.

Sources: I come from a line of people who alineate everone we meet just for sport. That plan is the opposite of what anyone in my family would do.

Wait, you actually asked for his credit score and resume? I thought that was a freaking joke!

The fact that this guy is still with your daughter after that kind of punishment shows that he actually loves her.

i'm glad my FIL to be is much more laid back than you were. I'd say if you didn't already know what kind of person this guy was before asking for his resume and credit report, then maybe there's a reason. as in maybe your daughter knows you're a bit of a dick and has kept the guy somewhat away from you.

just my opinion

Credit report & resume is a running joke and ones us & our kids have used for ever. But in a way it's kinda not.

Keep in mind we own a mortgage company and our kids have been exposed to the good & the bad of credit reports. They've heard all the stories about how someone marries someone with poor credit and can no longer buy a car or a house and how they have to struggle to stay afloat. They have also seen the correlation between a pattern of poor credit and the character of a person.

But the normal information about a person that lets you get to know them, tells you if you like them and can trust them has been severely lacking in this situation. All this time he's just been a boy on the fringe, not a candidate for marriage so this is an abrupt about face.

At this point a credit report and a resume would be the best way to fill in many of the character holes this guy has. Like I said, I've been the more sane, trusting & laid back person in the family when he was just someone my daughter is dating, but when he's applying for membership into the family and asking for a glowing endorsement of him and his character to my daughter to help be sure he gets the answer he wants, that changes things.

When he's not around the kids rag on him unmercifully. It's not that he appears to be a serial killer, I mean who does?, it's more that he's a non-person. If I didn't know better I'd say he was a Spook.

The big issue here is that there is we've had limited warning this was a possibility & limited time before THE GRAND EVENT which means we have to make up for 9 months worth of avoidance in a week and then decide upon either grudging acceptance or a whole hearted endorsement.

My head is hurting from having to think about this almost constantly. All we want to do is know him a little better so that we can warm up to him as much as he thinks my daughter has. AND DO IT NOW!!!!!

And no we didn't go all Meet the Parents on him.

ok, so sounds like maybe he or she has kept him on the fringe for one reason or another. if it's his choice to keep himself somewhat unknown to you, then maybe that is reason enough to question him as "the one" for your daughter. good luck deciding, i'm lucky in that i don't have anything to hide and my future in-laws like me.