Interesting what you listen to as an adult vs a kid.
I always thought Imagine by John Lenon was a hippy peace song.
Listened to it again today and I realize it's the Atheists anthem.
Interesting what you listen to as an adult vs a kid.
I always thought Imagine by John Lenon was a hippy peace song.
Listened to it again today and I realize it's the Atheists anthem.
Stampie said:Interesting what you listen to as an adult vs a kid.
I always thought Imagine by John Lenon was a hippy peace song.
Listened to it again today and I realize it's the Atheists anthem.
A search of the internet about the song reveals that, and more, from Lennon's own lips. I hesitate to put his exact quotes because they may be too political.
Side note:
Religious institutions have had centuries to encourage collective thinking, organize and build power bases.
Atheists don't have frameworks in place to that degree, and generally lack a weekly get together in many places. While not impossible to do, it does hurt the building of communities among non-believers.
Beer Baron said:Children all over the world chant in a Minor 3rd.
Do you have a source for this? I want to incorporate it into something I'm writing.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:Beer Baron said:Children all over the world chant in a Minor 3rd.
Do you have a source for this? I want to incorporate it into something I'm writing.
I do not. It was one of those minor factoids that I heard mentioned offhand once. I'd just be googling for it.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:Side note:
Religious institutions have had centuries to encourage collective thinking, organize and build power bases.
Atheists don't have frameworks in place to that degree, and generally lack a weekly get together in many places. While not impossible to do, it does hurt the building of communities among non-believers.
Agreed. I wish there was a equivalent "community", but its pretty weird to get together to celebrate not believing in something. So I think for most non-religious folks, their community comes from hobbies or other passions, but those usually change over time and are not full family affairs.
ProDarwin said: I wish there was a equivalent "community"
Agreed here as well. You would think there would be some way to organize around "we believe in nothing specific, specifically!"
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said: I wish there was a equivalent "community"Agreed here as well. You would think there would be some way to organize around "we believe in nothing specific, specifically!"
They're called "pubs".
ProDarwin said:Agreed. I wish there was a equivalent "community", but its pretty weird to get together to celebrate not believing in something. So I think for most non-religious folks, their community comes from hobbies or other passions, but those usually change over time and are not full family affairs.
The most obvious parallel I can think of are service fraternities/sororities, or possibly philosophical discussion groups.
A post-collegiate organization might look similar, and basing it on community action and aid would give a positive example of non-belief in the community.
A possible slogan might be: "Thoughts and prayers don't work, get off of your ass and do something."
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said: I wish there was a equivalent "community"Agreed here as well. You would think there would be some way to organize around "we believe in nothing specific, specifically!"
I'm not an atheist, I just don't give a E36 M3. However way back when in one of my humanities classes the prof was a full on atheist, very vocal about it. For a couple of papers in the class I laid out how atheism was a religion albeit a very small and fledgling one. I forget the specifics, but I referenced how many celebrate Richard Dawkins' birthday, how they "preach", and a few other things.
I initially did not get a good grade on those series of papers. Had to point out several times that the assignments had nothing to do with being right or wrong, just setting up terms for a debate (it was a class on formal logic, if I remember correctly) and that logic had less than nothing to do with emotional responses.
I was a bit of a dick, come to think about it.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
This argument was covered much earlier in the thread. What you are describing are Gnostic Atheists, and I'd argue even a narrow subset of those. Really, there are two important pairs of categories here.
Theist/Atheist - Believes in a God, gods, or supernatural deities, or does not believe in them
Gnostic/Agnostic - Believes they can (and do) know for certain whether or not something supernatural exists, or believes they can not know for certain.
So "Atheist" is not a religion, but a *very* broad category. Calling atheism a religion would be akin to calling theism a religion. Theists follow any number of different religions, and many theists do not follow any. It would arguably be possible to organize one or more atheist religions, but that does not make atheism itself a religion.
Interestingly, I'd say this discussion has included people from all four of these categories.
Stampie said:Interesting what you listen to as an adult vs a kid.
I always thought Imagine by John Lenon was a hippy peace song.
Listened to it again today and I realize it's the Atheists anthem.
Only an anthem for peaceful atheists. The more warlike atheists and those who don't like the Beatles may believe differently. You are going to need another chart.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
Valid point. I shouldn't be speaking for the other types.
Beer Baron said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
Interestingly, I'd say this discussion has included people from all four of these categories.
Plus those who are amused by the human definition of a "god".
In reply to Beer Baron :
Oh I know. I was just being a dick in a class I was getting a really good grade in.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:Beer Baron said:In reply to Mr_Asa :
Interestingly, I'd say this discussion has included people from all four of these categories.
Plus those who are amused by the human definition of a "god".
That may or may not be a weird one. Like, if you believe in a greater supernatural power that is arguably still theistic, even if you think the typical personal God is absurd.
For a while I described myself as a "monist" - I believed in one single unified All. The whole universe, everything in existence is one thing. I don't know whether that would fall into a different shade of "theism" or not. (Arguably, I guess I still believe this to a degree, at least in a very Neil DeGrasse Tyson grand cosmic and subatomic level; I just don't really worry about any supposedly supernatural implications of this.)
In reply to Beer Baron :
Well... in my case, it goes back to that "mistakes were made..." comment in the other thread. But vaguely put, consider what may seem magical and supernatural is merely a matter of perspective of technology and knowledge. Humanity as a species is barely in infancy. We don't "know" anything.
I haven't been able to read through the whole topic, but I just wanted to drop my 2 cents in.
I'm Catholic and nearly lost my faith in my teenage years. It forced me to evaluate what I believed and why I believed it. It's like I lived out my own Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. I'm still here... and embracing my faith is a big part of why I didn't drown in depression and who knows what that comes with it.
scardeal said:I'm Catholic and nearly lost my faith in my teenage years... and embracing my faith is a big part of why I didn't drown in depression and who knows what that comes with it.
Interestingly I had a similar questioning, doubled down, discovered punk rock and different ways to live and think, and think I am way better for it decades later. Different strokes I guess.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:The most obvious parallel I can think of are service fraternities/sororities, or possibly philosophical discussion groups.
My father became a Freemason. My observation, particularly after his death, was that this was a group of guys that truly were a fraternity in a good way. I thought I may join them, until I found out that it requires a belief in a higher power than yourself; in other words, some sort of god.
Sure, I could lie/fake my way through it, but that's not my character.
So, no fraternal organization for this guy.
I did attend a Meetup atheist group once or twice but they were too politically leftist for me. You know, the kind that can't help but bash any conservative thought no matter what, just because it is connected with the Team they don't like. My Libertarian views didn't fit with them, so I did not return. Why it even had to be political I don't know.
There is the American Humanist Association but it seemed a little too...serious?...to me.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Beer Baron :
Well... in my case, it goes back to that "mistakes were made..." comment in the other thread. But vaguely put, consider what may seem magical and supernatural is merely a matter of perspective of technology and knowledge. Humanity as a species is barely in infancy. We don't "know" anything.
This is why I find gnosticism more offputting than theism.
ddavidv said:Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:The most obvious parallel I can think of are service fraternities/sororities, or possibly philosophical discussion groups.
My father became a Freemason. My observation, particularly after his death, was that this was a group of guys that truly were a fraternity in a good way. I thought I may join them, until I found out that it requires a belief in a higher power than yourself; in other words, some sort of god.
On a related note, if you are an atheist and you join AA, you will be very out of place. Especially in the south.
As I mentioned earlier, the difference between church and many of these other communities is that its a whole family affair, not just a gathering of adult men or adult women.
ProDarwin said:Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:Side note:
Religious institutions have had centuries to encourage collective thinking, organize and build power bases.
Atheists don't have frameworks in place to that degree, and generally lack a weekly get together in many places.Agreed. I wish there was a equivalent "community", but its pretty weird to get together to celebrate not believing in something. So I think for most non-religious folks, their community comes from hobbies or other passions, but those usually change over time and are not full family affairs.
Do you have a few minutes to talk about The Paved Church of the Holy Cone?
Duke said:ProDarwin said:Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:Side note:
Religious institutions have had centuries to encourage collective thinking, organize and build power bases.
Atheists don't have frameworks in place to that degree, and generally lack a weekly get together in many places.Agreed. I wish there was a equivalent "community", but its pretty weird to get together to celebrate not believing in something. So I think for most non-religious folks, their community comes from hobbies or other passions, but those usually change over time and are not full family affairs.
Do you have a few minutes to talk about The Paved Church of the Holy Cone?
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:ProDarwin said: I wish there was a equivalent "community"Agreed here as well. You would think there would be some way to organize around "we believe in nothing specific, specifically!"
Isn't that what the Unitarian church is for? I believe I'm still a Unitarian pastor, after sending away for the title.
You'll need to log in to post.
