Impart your wisdom on the French Horn

My daughter, who moves on to middle school last year, has decided that she would like to join the school band. And her instrument of choice? The French Horn, or, as the band director told my wife today, THE most expensive instrument possible (evidently just beating out the bassoon).

In the traditional spirit of GRM, I immediately went to CL and ebay to determine how to avoid a new instrument purchase. Evidently it has to be a "Conn" double French Horn and there are wildly divergent prices. Some used ones are $300 and some are $3000!

So does anyone know anything about these beasties? Better yet, anyone have one collecting dust that I could purchase for a cut rate price??

I played the french horn in middle school, but I never owned one. I believe we rented from the school. I'm sure even if the school doesn't there should be a music store around with a similar program.

I dated a girl that played french horn. Every time I kissed her she stuffed her first in my balls.

But yeah, rent one first. My daughters both wanted to learn an instrument. Oldest wanted to play flute, youngest, clarinet. Oldest gave up after two months. Youngest kept at through middle school, but because she was playing bass clarinet, she didn't feel like joining the marching band in high school. Both were in the color guard, though.

$$$-The reason my parents didn't let me join band. All I wanted was a Sax...

• another for Rent. Should be available.

I was a percussionist. Ever price a drum set, a set of timpani, marimba, etc? Thankfully, the school had those available, too.

RealMiniDriver wrote: I dated a girl that played french horn. Every time I kissed her she stuffed her first in my balls.

In college, I dated a girl who played the cello.
Between her knees was an instrument that brought me joy!

Creapy Frog said: Sorry, thought someone was looking for me. Nevermind

I played horn from grade school into college. I would also highly recommend renting until you're reasonably sure she's going to stick with it. My folks bought me a nice Holton horn in high school that I took very good care of and sold over 10 years later for almost exactly what they paid for it, which was around $3k. That's about average for a 'prosumer' level horn; pro-level horns are solidly into the 5 figures.

And I don't necessarily agree that a double is requisite for a beginning student. Many generations of horn players grew up - or only ever played - single horns. Doubles make it easier to hit the lowest and highest registers, but singles train the embouchure of young player to work for it, which is not a bad thing. The transition to a double later on is not a difficult one for a seasoned player.

And don't worry, she could be a violin or cello player. Elite student-level stringed instruments start around $15k.

Any school activity can get expensive. The guys on the soccer team with me easily spent $300-$400 on cleats alone.

Thanks for the recommendations folks. I'll explore rental options. She is doing a 2 week band primer over the summer and needs the instrument by then.

In reply to Alex: the band director requires a double. Not sure why...don't even know the difference yet!

Buying a used wind instrument is often like the old joke that there's nothing as expensive as a used Porsche. My best ex-g/f was a pretty good flute player in college, last time she took it out of the case (been sitting in that case for more than 15yrs, IIRC), she couldn't get it to really work. The valve pads were dead (they're cork, and dry out), and the mechanical action was all sticky & slow.

Repairing stuff like that can get pricy. Random internetz link..

http://www.windshoppe.com/repair.htm

She planned on having her instrument restored before the MS kicked in, but that's a woman who was actually dedicated to playing the thing from a young age, and wasn't just "kicking tires" about it when she was an adolecent.

If she wanted to play trombone, I have a couple of beaters taking up space in my closet.

Actually, now I know what I'm doing for the Challenge...

A double horn has tubing for the keys of both F and Bb (B flat). It's essentially two horns in one, with the Bb side being particularly suited to the high and low registers. Different fingerings are required for the Bb side - which is actuated by the thumb valve. I can see that a band director would want their students playing higher level instruments to get accustomed to them, but to require it of middle schoolers seems a bit outlandish. It's a relatively modern invention (1900s or so), and hundreds of years of virtuosic horn players did just fine with singles.

But hey, it's not my band.

If your daughter's remotely serious, I recommend private horn lessons ASAP. It really is one of the most challenging wind instruments to play, and specialized instruction is all but required for serious students.

Rental at first for sure. To check out a good source for everything from new and used instruments to accessories at very good prices, check out Woodwind-Brasswind (www.wwbw.com) I think. You can see the variations in price and quality, and brands for student, intermediate and pro horns. Good way to learn the lingo. Most schools have a relationship with a local or regional repairman who can do most repairs at a reasonable price. I have my saxes done locally by a guy who repairs instruments and guns (not as wierd a combination as you might think) who does good work at a fair price.

Rent until she commits; odds are that the passion isn't there or her interests will steer her toward another instrument. It's easier and cheaper to transfer a rental than it is to sell/re-sell. And, it's not like French Horns are on a "most wanted" waiting list.

Take this from one who worked, albeit very briefly, for a music company than serviced the music programs for multiple county school systems.

friedgreencorrado wrote: Buying a used wind instrument is often like the old joke that there's nothing as expensive as a used Porsche.

Fortunately, there are many fewer moving/wearable parts to brass instruments than woodwinds. They're really not too expensive to restore, provided the valves aren't completely seized (in which case liberal application of Kroil will probably do the job).

1) Derick - a new meaning for tuned exhaust?

2) FGC - I remember reading an interview with Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull for the kids in the crowd) asking him what brand of flutes he preferred - he said he kept about a dozen on hand that he got from pawn shops while on tour because his flutes kept getting either stolen or damaged in shows.

On used horns, I once bought a really trashed tenor sax for $40, but a good classic brand. Got a full rebuild (including disassembly of all joints, working out the dents and relaquering) for $550, played it ten years and sold it for $800 - but I got really lucky. In general, rent first, and if the student gets pretty good and wants to stay with it, then shop for a good horn. Be aware that unless whe turns into a music major, most students stop playing after high school, although these days there are a lot more community bands than formerly. I went through this in the '60s and '70s as virtually no rock or country bands used saxes at that time. I started playing again after a 25-year break. That was 20 years ago, and I get a tremendous bang out of playing.

RealMiniDriver wrote: I dated a girl that played french horn. Every time I kissed her she stuffed her fist in my balls.

I laughed the out berkeleying loud at this. Thank you.

My son started the french horn in fifth grade. Our local places wouldn't rent french horns due to rarity of players. We bought a $500 used single french horn that he used for 4 years.

Then he announced he needed a double french horn. We bought a basic $1,700 one at the music shop in South Bend, Indiana.

He is now going to be a junior in college and plays every Sunday in a church orchestra. Worth every penny but I like to kid I could have had a basic starter 240Z instead.

I think ebay has some basic ones for reasonable. I have wanted to sell the single french horn but found the value next to nothing on resale.

French horn players make great kissers. It's all about the embouchure. Just what a father wants to hear, I suppose.

I borrowed my first instruments from the school. Later, I got my own. My "student model" alto sax got me through studying music university as a saxophone major and didn't really hold me back until fourth year - but by that point, I was more interested in soprano anyhow so I cared not.

If you can't rent, try calling area high school band directors. Many schools have instruments lying around, unused. You may be able to rent or purchase from them.

Good news is with most instruments (and I'm not 100% sure on brass, but I don't see why it would be different) is that if you buy used and keep it in similar condition, it should be worth about the same if/when you are ready to sell.

Search craigslist. There are a few million parents just like you who bought a horn for their kids and they ended up moving on to the Yo-yo or Unicycle.

one piece of advice with brass instruments... don't get a fancy one, especially with a french horn. French Horn is played very high in the overtone series... meaning that its not an easy one to play. The likelyhood that he/she will ditch it is high unless they are really excited about it. Might want to keep a trumpet handy; something with broader overtone intervals.

Is he/she a musician; by that I mean do they have a gift for it? I'm not second guessing the talents of your child, but a non-musical child with a french horn can be kinda like a new racer with an F1 car.

Conn and Yamaha both made some pretty durable beginner horns. Treat it just like their first car. Buy them a utility beater. If they are a natural driver, they'll drive it to the best of its ability. Then when they graduate to a Miata, they'll be great. If they can learn to get good moves out of a beater, they'll be great when they get good equipment.

Most French Horns will surrender to just about any German Horn without much of a fight.

The music teacher was kidding, I hope. That or they've never priced a Bassoon.

Anyway, there are a number of good used french horns on ebay for under a hundred bucks. Which may well be cheaper than renting, even for just one semester. Especially when you factor in the repair cost on that rental, should your child be less than perfectly gentle.