Is anybody bothered by VW's constant racism and sexism?

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Something I found interesting: I'm friends with two police officers on facebook. Both in different states. Both have, in the last 24 hours, posted 2 things, and 2 things only: 

• The same article about an officer killed in the line of duty 
• Different memes - one had a picture of Target, one had a picture of Autozone, but both had the same MLK picture saying the MLK picture is a protest; the other is a crime/larceny. 

I don't disagree that it is a tragedy that the officer was killed in the line of duty. I don't disagree that the looting was a despicable crime. But if those are the only two things you've posted in the past 24 hours, it sends a bad message to me. I interpret it as "Police Brutality is not what we - the Police - should be worrying about right now". 

Again you have different issues here. 

-George Floyd should not have been choked to death.

-The people who are looting and burning should be arrested for such. Not beaten or choked to death, but detained with only as much force as necessary, taken to the county jail and then brought in front of a Judge as the system requires. Of course there is now the complication that going to the county lockup could mean being infected with Covid 19. 

It should be a matter of training the police officers. In several forms of martial arts there are ways of putting someone down without killing them. Of course spending money on training is not something cities really want to do right now. In Dallas they can't even come up with enough money to out bid the suburbs for police officers. Their pension also got stripped by some fast talking financial people. The suburbs offer a better retirement plan. 

Snowdoggie, did you fully read my post? I'm trying to understand what your point is here, because your response doesn't make sense to me. I don't disagree with anything you said, it just doesn't seem like a response to my post - the most important part is this: "I interpret it as "Police Brutality is not what we - the Police - should be worrying about right now". 

Whether or not that is what the LEO's meant or intended, that is how I am interpreting it - deflecting away from what has become a serious national issue. 

Brett, what you said makes a lot of sense. 

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

Snowdoggie, did you fully read my post? I'm trying to understand what your point is here, because your response doesn't make sense to me. I don't disagree with anything you said, it just doesn't seem like a response to my post - the most important part is this: "I interpret it as "Police Brutality is not what we - the Police - should be worrying about right now". 

 

Whether or not that is what the LEO's meant or intended, that is how I am interpreting it - deflecting away from what has become a serious national issue. 

 

Brett, what you said makes a lot of sense. 

I was only trying to say that in law enforcement, everything should matter. Brutality and protecting the public during riots. 

I do understand your point. That these officers don't seem to be too concerned about police brutality. 

Justjim75 said:

1. No, i have never heard in the news that hispanics are here to do harm.  I have heard that criminals come across our unsecure border from Mexico.

IMO the whole criminals coming across the border is nothing more then a thinly veiled racism. Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes then citizens.

My wife works at a heavily Hispanic elementary school in pre-school. It is really sad to hear how these kids are treated and that they are scared of the police even though they are only 4 years old. For example when the schools shut down here, the schools set up wireless so that students could get near the school and access it. When a couple of hispanic students where walking to the school property, a cop approached them and basically threatened them if they didn't go home. Meanwhile in the neighborhood I live in, a mostly white neighborhood kids where all over the place.

Officer Chauvin has been taken into custody, and charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter.  No charges yet against the other three officers but the prosecutor indicated they are pending.

I ventured out at lunchtime, and noticed most of the businesses in my immediate neighborhood were boarding up their windows in preparation for tonight.  Hopefully, the arrest of Chauvin will help calm things down.

Snowdoggie said:

It should be a matter of training the police officers. In several forms of martial arts there are ways of putting someone down without killing them. 

They berking had him down without killing him.  HE WAS DOWN THE WHOLE BERKING SEVEN MINUTES IT TOOK TO KILL HIM.

"Training" is not the berking problem here.

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Hundreds of videos out there of hispanics bringing huge bundles of drugs across the border.  Those aren't Canadians digging tunnels under the border.  Nobody is saying anything about hispanics being bad, but there are MANY criminals using the unsecure border to get here. 

93EXCivic said:

Justjim75 said:

1. No, i have never heard in the news that hispanics are here to do harm.  I have heard that criminals come across our unsecure border from Mexico.

IMO the whole criminals coming across the border is nothing more then a thinly veiled racism. Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes then citizens.

That stat only applies to legal immigrants, who have the government keeping track of them, who get deported the second they commit a crime. Which is entirely different to the violence and human trafficking happening on both sides of the southern border. 

Chattanooga TN police chief has a good idea

https://twitter.com/chiefdavidroddy/status/1265758198608400386?s=21

Justjim75 said:

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Hundreds of videos out there of hispanics bringing huge bundles of drugs across the border.  Those aren't Canadians digging tunnels under the border.  Nobody is saying anything about hispanics being bad, but there are MANY criminals using the unsecure border to get here. 

Yep. The War On Drugs is focused on the Southern border, but is also active on the Northern Border and on the seas, but the Southern Border gets a lot more attention. Admittedly, it's where most of the contraband gets seized, too, but there may be a chicken-egg scenario partially at play there.

Also, while Mexican people are quite often Hispanic, so are people from Spain. In fact, Spain could be said to have started the whole Hispanic thing. There are many US Citizens who are Hispanics- notably those from Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands. Identifying the criminals based on their language seems inaccurate and can be considered to inflame bias, as it encompass the vast majority of Spanish speaking people who are not involved in the drug trade. Calling them what they are (drug trafficking criminals) is a less racially charged way to describe the individuals. 

I'm not saying that to be a jerk, and I'm guessing that there is no malice intended, and the usage of the word is undergoing a transformation in real time. I'm just pointing out how the use of a word can have racially charged undertones and further a stereotype.

Which brings up another point: Is this "walking on eggshells" or is it just being aware of the nuances of how words have power?

Justjim75 said:

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Hundreds of videos out there of hispanics bringing huge bundles of drugs across the border.  Those aren't Canadians digging tunnels under the border.  Nobody is saying anything about hispanics being bad, but there are MANY criminals using the unsecure border to get here. 

Lots of smuggling on the Canadian border,but the vast majority is coming north.  Guns, drugs, central Americans, cigarettes... 

Look yall, i was responding to people saying that the news says people coming across the border are bad, i agree that all people coming north are not bad or all criminals, but the news correctly states that criminals come north across the border from Mexico.  To say that means the person that says that is being racist is silly.  There are criminals coming here illegally from Mexico, thats a fact.  Most people that come here from the Mexican border (since apparently saying Hispanics is wrong even tho my friends from Mexico and Guatemala told me to say that) are truly awesome people in my experience and deserve a better life.  I wish we as a nation could help rid Mexico of violent cartels and reduce any and all tariffs on Mexican MADE products so they could have good opportunities there and not need to come here legally or illegally.

Just be clear, I was referring to the news reports not you personally. I was I would say much of the violence in central America is directly linked to the US's foreign policy towards those countries and our "war on drugs". 

There is little else I can say without crossing majority into politics. 

The more I have been exposed to different cultures and backgrounds through various ways the more my eyes have been opened to the ways in which the US struggles with racism. Whether it is the Hispanic guys I played adult soccer with worrying about getting constantly hassled by the police, to see how the Hispanic pre-school kids have been affected (many of whom are Puerto Rican), to talking to people of indigenous descent and hearing about their struggles, to seeing the things that keep happening to African Americans being shot or racially abused. It isn't ok. 

No doubt the US is founded on berkeleying E36 M3 up for everybody else, starting with Native Americans.  But there has to be a point where we all can get over the past and move on, otherwise we all need to pack up and give it back to those we stole it from.

I'm sure everyone but the originators of the berked up E36 M3 would prefer we all get over the past 100%.

Justjim75 said:

No doubt the US is founded on berkeleying E36 M3 up for everybody else, starting with Native Americans.  But there has to be a point where we all can get over the past and move on, otherwise we all need to pack up and give it back to those we stole it from.

How can we as a nation move past it when we still don't treat everyone equally... 

In reply to 93EXCivic :

Thats the point i speak of.  We need to get there, and fast.

Justjim75 said:

 (since apparently saying Hispanics is wrong even tho my friends from Mexico and Guatemala told me to say that) 

I was told by various individuals to refer to them by their country of origin, Latino or just by their name. If they told you to call them Hispanic, do that. They get to choose their identity.  

I'm not a person who likes to talk about problems for a long period of time. Once an issue is identified I like to fix it.  Bit different situation here. But how do I get involved. How do I help fix. I'm not one to sit around. 

So I have been looking for ways to help folks with interviewing, resumes, mentoring  or FOC business mentoring. Guess I'll get off my ass and get doing it. It's what I'm good at. I'm not a contractor so I'm not good at rebuilding. 

Given how vulnerable we all feel, this level civility on a topic with this intensity of hurt, is admirable and part of what makes this place different. So kudos to everyone for not immediately flying off into a floundering E36 M3 storm of prepackaged dismissals of each other.

If you grew up in the United States of America the chances are, like me, you are not good at talking about racism, prejudice and bias. Lets acknowledge that collectively we are not good at this and we are going to make some mistakes.

Language is important, there are a lot of words and phrases with strong connotations for others we may not be aware of. I am going to offer up a few definitions and distinctions of my own.

Race – A grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into a category generally viewed as distinct by a society.

Racism – Active hated, devaluing, and/or dehumanizing of a group of people for being of a particular race.

Racist – hating, devaluing, and/or dehumanizing something or someone because its associated with a particular racial group.

Bias – disproportionately weighted expectations or attitudes, positive or negative, you have about people or things based on beliefs and sometimes life experiences.

Prejudice - a negative opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without direct knowledge, thought, or reason.

A lot of us are not actively racist, but we still have prejudges and biases. It is part of how minds work. Let me throw a few words up and observe your reaction to them.

NASCAR

Formula Drift

SUV’s

Pontiac Aztec

Prius owners

Ford vs Chevy

Jeep

Figure Stating

I could continue the list, but I am guessing we all have an opinion or feeling about something on the the list that we don't have direct experience with. (Full discloser, I have never driven an Aztec, but don't want one for some irrational reason).  We are often not conscious of our prejudices/biases and get really defensive when they are pointed out. It doesn’t make me or you a bad person by itself. I try to be aware of my biases, and counter act them when I realize they are not working for me or harming someone.

There is no room in this community for active racism. (Thank You Moderators). Strong biases and racist beliefs are definitely here because this forum because the majority of the members are male and North American. We have been taught a lot of wrong-headed, wrong-hearted, bullE36 M3 that harms us, our loved ones and everything we say we care about. I am trying everyday to learn and do better. I invite everyone here to help me and to do the same for yourself.

A story of unintended consequences:   I put this tag on my Outlaw Bug.  I'm thinking it is the year of the chassis, and if you do the research, it represents the county and state I live in.   One of my buddies almost immediately told me, "Hey Boomer, you know that represents National Legalize Weed Day, right?"   I'm thinking i can live with that since my county's biggest industry is a legal weed growing business.

Then i go to the first car show... and a fellow walks up and says,  "Dude did you know 420 is Hitler's birthday?"  

Oops. i didn't intentionally intend to offend anyone.     Just saying.

I'm glad, and very proud that we're able to carry on with this and still listen to each other.

I'm going to try and piece together a thought that I'm having.

Yupididit, you are the only person that's here to give his personal perspective about how it feels to be black in America.

That's not unusual, in my experience, in these conversations. One black man or woman, trying to share, but at the same time, in a way, alone. I think it's yet another burden.

I'm grateful for your efforts, and your patience. I am with you.

93EXCivic said:

Justjim75 said:

No doubt the US is founded on berkeleying E36 M3 up for everybody else, starting with Native Americans.  But there has to be a point where we all can get over the past and move on, otherwise we all need to pack up and give it back to those we stole it from.

How can we as a nation move past it when we still don't treat everyone equally... 

You really shouldn't judge the past without a good understanding of the context. What was life like then in general and what were acceptable societal norms. Even today in some parts of the world it is acceptable to slaughter and enslave people based on local and regional standards that most of us would not even conceive of. For it's time, the founding of the USA was pretty cutting edge on freedoms and equality. I doubt context has been properly taught in our schools for a few decades.

In reply to AAZCD (Forum Supporter) :

Not sure what that has to do with my statement... 

AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:

93EXCivic said:

Justjim75 said:

No doubt the US is founded on berkeleying E36 M3 up for everybody else, starting with Native Americans.  But there has to be a point where we all can get over the past and move on, otherwise we all need to pack up and give it back to those we stole it from.

How can we as a nation move past it when we still don't treat everyone equally... 

You really shouldn't judge the past without a good understanding of the context. What was life like then in general and what were acceptable societal norms. Even today in some parts of the world it is acceptable to slaughter and enslave people based on local and regional standards that most of us would not even conceive of. For it's time, the founding of the USA was pretty cutting edge on freedoms and equality. I doubt context has been properly taught in our schools for a few decades.

The context helps you understand why people at that time may have been accepting of an abhorrent behavior. It does not make it any less abhorrent. Doesn’t really come into play here at all.