Is “coal rollin’” illegal?

In reply to oldopelguy :

Yup.

While I don't see much if any of that around here, what there are is plenty of lifted trucks with tires sticking way outside the fenders which is illegal pretty much anywhere. I wish they'd get pulled over at least some, as they're a clear hazard to pedestrians and fellow motorists not in ridiculous lifted trucks. Its especially galling when one hears about a car getting hassled for a 2" drop, but 6" lift is no problem.

RX8driver said:

While I don't see much if any of that around here, what there are is plenty of lifted trucks with tires sticking way outside the fenders which is illegal pretty much anywhere. I wish they'd get pulled over at least some, as they're a clear hazard to pedestrians and fellow motorists not in ridiculous lifted trucks. Its especially galling when one hears about a car getting hassled for a 2" drop, but 6" lift is no problem.

It's hard to tell someone that their K20 is illegally lifted when you can buy a new Silverado that has higher headlights and bumpers.

If states enforced the bumper-height and headlight-height laws already on the books, probably most privately-owned newer pickups would be illegal.  (The rest, have work trucks, which are generally not so absurd because people who work don't want a bed that's 4' off the ground)

In reply to Knurled. :

Bingo.  One of the reaosns I like my older Chevy K3500 is that it sits lower to the ground than my F350 did.  Both were completely stock.  I wish the bed were even lower, but then I'd lose ground clearance, which also comes in handy.  

It is federally illegal to defeat or overrun emissions devices.... but how many federal police do you see on the highway?  Unless there was a REALLY bored "EPA police" cruiser driving behind that truck, nothing can really happen.

State and local police can't pull you over for a federal emissions violation.

Most states don't smog check diesels which is their loophole.  I would totally support a "visible emissions" law.  Not even because it violates emissions laws (although I do like the air I breathe) it is a danger on the road.  The sticky part is... how do you delineate between a coal-roller and just someone like my neighbor who has a 6.2L chevy diesel?  His truck smokes a little just in normal operation.  Or a 1984 Mercedes diesel that always puffs a little?

I mean, seriously... if you installed a smoke screen like James Bond or Spy Hunter on your vehicle, you'd get a ticket the first time you used it.

I'm honestly not sure what annoys me more anymore, the morons who roll coal or the fact that every diesel truck has to be loud as E36 M3 at all times.

My neighbor has a cummins that has some stupid ass exhaust on it with like an 8 inch tip and it's louder rolling away than when I had the muffler cut off my 318. Of course he drives like an shiny happy person so I'm not really surprised.

They're the new riced out honda where everyone must know that they're tuned at all times by hitting the throttle for no damn reason. You got 600+ lb ft of torque buddy, you don't need to blast the accelerator to leave a stop sign.

In reply to Curtis :

One “smokes a little.” One is blowing massive clouds of black smoke through a pipe the size of a dinner plate.

Does your neighbor’s truck do this? If not, I figure he’s cool.

I think a lot of Cummins' are stupid loud right from the factory, my father in law has a 99 Dodge 2500 with the 24V Cummins and it's fairly loud and rattly. It also has vague steering and is geared for towing, so it's not the nicest thing to drive around town, but to me, it's the best truck in the world, because I can use it almost whenever I need and I don't have to own it.

poopshovel again said:

In reply to Curtis :

One “smokes a little.” One is blowing massive clouds of black smoke through a pipe the size of a dinner plate.

Does your neighbor’s truck do this? If not, I figure he’s cool.

I agree, however it is a conundrum from a legal aspect.  It's not like they have a quantitative way to say "more than X density of smoke is a no-no."  So where do they draw a legal line?

I've been ticketed in states where my exhaust was too loud because they have SPL meters.  I've been pulled over for a length check on a trailer because they have tape measures.  How will they determine a quantitative way to separate the "normal" smoke from the coal-rollers?

My boss has a Duramax that is turned WAY up.

It's not loud and it doesn't smoke.

No excuse for coal rollin' unless you like tearing up $20.00 bills.

Curtis said:

poopshovel again said:

In reply to Curtis :

One “smokes a little.” One is blowing massive clouds of black smoke through a pipe the size of a dinner plate.

Does your neighbor’s truck do this? If not, I figure he’s cool.

I agree, however it is a conundrum from a legal aspect.  It's not like they have a quantitative way to say "more than X density of smoke is a no-no."  So where do they draw a legal line?

I've been ticketed in states where my exhaust was too loud because they have SPL meters.  I've been pulled over for a length check on a trailer because they have tape measures.  How will they determine a quantitative way to separate the "normal" smoke from the coal-rollers?

This. Most DI cars will smoke at WOT if they've been driving in crappy traffic for weeks. The wife's Forte does for me when I steal it from her. after a few seconds it goes away because the Italian tuneup worked. But that would be "visible emissions" by the law. what about cold climates? Do you count the white steam as visible? There's just too many ways this could go wrong for the average person and never affect the people you want to. 

In reply to Curtis and Bobzilla:

There are tests that can be done. At times when the DOT stops trucks for roadside inspections here the do an opacity test. Basically a device goes on the end of the exhaust and if you emit a cloud dark enough long enough to fail. They don’t do it often now because modern heavy trucks don’t smoke like they used to but there’s certainly a standard in place in some areas that could be used. It only checks for heavy black smoke and had to be a longer than normal duration so an occasional puff or the white vapor in winter wouldn’t be an issue.

Curtis said:

poopshovel again said:

In reply to Curtis :

One “smokes a little.” One is blowing massive clouds of black smoke through a pipe the size of a dinner plate.

Does your neighbor’s truck do this? If not, I figure he’s cool.

I agree, however it is a conundrum from a legal aspect.  It's not like they have a quantitative way to say "more than X density of smoke is a no-no."  So where do they draw a legal line?

 

Its subjective but still easy for an officer to do.  They don't need a specific law regarding every little detail.  If what you are doing is unsafe they can definitely write you a ticket for it.  Wreckless driving, malfunctioning equipment or many other subjective laws could cover that behavior.

^None of that needs to be emissions related and whether or not the state has inspection is not relevant.

Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to poopshovel again :

The question about dads truck was more of a general question about if stock diesels driven normally always roll a little bit of cold when you get on him like leaving a stoplight or passing somebody

I think what you are describing is likely "a bit of soot".  That's relatively normal on the old trucks.  Rolling coal ranges from "a lot of soot" to "complete darkness to those behind you".

In reply to ProDarwin :

The problem lies in the grey area when you have, um... "overactive" police that use it as a revenue maker because they can. Some of us live by some of these municipalities that like to be a bit over-exuberant in their policing. 

Maybe the cop figured having a small hootus was punishment enough?

My '95 Cummins hardly ever rolled coal although with a 4" exhaust with nothing between the turbo and the end except a straight through resonator, it was far from quiet.

My 100% stock 2003 TDI will emit a "poof" of soot if I floor it in 5th gear at hwy speeds.  I ony did that when I'd have a tailgater who refuses to understand I can only go as fast as the car in front of me.

Then there is the joy of following an old pre-emissions car that runs crazy rich.  My Mini was guilty of that.  Nobody wanted to be behind me during group drives.  The Triumphs are only marginally better.

If you want to hate coal-rollers, try riding a bike on the shoulder...  or even just sitting in a really low convertible - like a Spitfire.

minivan_racer said:

Maybe the cop figured having a small hootus was punishment enough?

He was going home to hop in his own coal rolling truck.

The podunk little town south of where I live is positively awash with hill-jacks who feel the need to compensate for their “shortcoming” by rolling coal everywhere they go.  Whenever I ventured into that cesspit municipality on my motorcycle it would invariably end up with me shouting through the window of some douche-nozzles truck.

I think the punishment should be to route their exhaust into the cab of their truck.

bobzilla said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

The problem lies in the grey area when you have, um... "overactive" police that use it as a revenue maker because they can. Some of us live by some of these municipalities that like to be a bit over-exuberant in their policing. 

I'm 100% ok with using tickets on coal rollers as a revenue stream.

Same with anything with totally open pipes.

Or any automotive behavior that is obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious.

ProDarwin said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

The problem lies in the grey area when you have, um... "overactive" police that use it as a revenue maker because they can. Some of us live by some of these municipalities that like to be a bit over-exuberant in their policing. 

I'm 100% ok with using tickets on coal rollers as a revenue stream.

Same with anything with totally open pipes.

Or any automotive behavior that is obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious.

That's where we differ politically. I see the slippery slope to more lost freedoms and refuse to budge. Live and let live. Want a coal roller? Fine. Want a Tesla? fine. Want [insert anything here]? fine, as long as you're not harming someone else, and feelings dont count.

bobzilla said:

ProDarwin said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

The problem lies in the grey area when you have, um... "overactive" police that use it as a revenue maker because they can. Some of us live by some of these municipalities that like to be a bit over-exuberant in their policing. 

I'm 100% ok with using tickets on coal rollers as a revenue stream.

Same with anything with totally open pipes.

Or any automotive behavior that is obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious.

That's where we differ politically. I see the slippery slope to more lost freedoms and refuse to budge. Live and let live. Want a coal roller? Fine. Want a Tesla? fine. Want [insert anything here]? fine, as long as you're not harming someone else, and feelings dont count.

 

But the coal rollers are harming someone else (and themselves) by reducing air quality for everybody. Modern diesels are dirtier out of the combustion chamber than pre-emissions diesels. The emissions equipment is good enough that they can run a much dirtier combustion process now. It's how they get 900-1000ft-lbs from the factory. When that emissions equipment is gone, these trucks are polluting more than a diesel truck from 30-40 years ago.

I'm all about freedoms too, but  only when they don't encroach on other's health. Local air pollution has a direct impact on respiratory health. We all breathe the same air and drink the same water. Those things need to be protected from people "exercising their freedoms" to do whatever they want.

bobzilla said:

ProDarwin said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

The problem lies in the grey area when you have, um... "overactive" police that use it as a revenue maker because they can. Some of us live by some of these municipalities that like to be a bit over-exuberant in their policing. 

I'm 100% ok with using tickets on coal rollers as a revenue stream.

Same with anything with totally open pipes.

Or any automotive behavior that is obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious.

That's where we differ politically. I see the slippery slope to more lost freedoms and refuse to budge. Live and let live. Want a coal roller? Fine. Want a Tesla? fine. Want [insert anything here]? fine, as long as you're not harming someone else, and feelings dont count.

 

What are you talking about?  I can't walk up to you with an air horn and blast it in your face.  It's either illegal of just wrong to spew chemicals in the air in an enclosed space (say, a smoke bomb in a Wal Mart).  So why should it be legal to bury fellow motorists (or pedestrians) in smog or wake up everyone in the neighborhood by running open pipes at 3 am? 

Your "freedom" ends when it impinges on my freedom to not be inconvenienced/discomforted by it.

bobzilla said:

ProDarwin said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

The problem lies in the grey area when you have, um... "overactive" police that use it as a revenue maker because they can. Some of us live by some of these municipalities that like to be a bit over-exuberant in their policing. 

I'm 100% ok with using tickets on coal rollers as a revenue stream.

Same with anything with totally open pipes.

Or any automotive behavior that is obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious.

That's where we differ politically. I see the slippery slope to more lost freedoms and refuse to budge. Live and let live. Want a coal roller? Fine. Want a Tesla? fine. Want [insert anything here]? fine, as long as you're not harming someone else, and feelings dont count.

 

Those 'freedoms' don't exist currently.  They are illegal, just poorly enforced.

bobzilla said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

The problem lies in the grey area when you have, um... "overactive" police that use it as a revenue maker because they can. Some of us live by some of these municipalities that like to be a bit over-exuberant in their policing. 

This is part of my concern.  I have much respect for police in general, but I've had my share of being targeted for a "high-dollar offense" like speeding while the hard-to-prove offenses like rolling coal or left-lane drivers go completely unnoticed.  I'm a proponent of laws that make clear delineation.  Too loud?  Show me the SPL meter.  Too fast?  Show me the radar gun and camera footage on the gun that shows you pointing it at me....not a VASCAR display where you hit a button when I may have crossed a white line.  Exhaust clouds dangerous?  Show me an opacity meter or FLIR readout.

My first ticket was a cop saying I was following him too closely.  He just made up E36 M3 on the fly.  I was 16 and fresh out of driver's ed, so I knew the rules; either the 2 second rule, or 1 car length per 10mph.  He had never heard of the 2 second rule and he tried to tell me that the guideline was 1 car length per 1mph.  So I said, "I'm supposed to follow you 55 car lengths behind?"  He didn't have an answer.  He was just a dick.

I don't mind being accountable for my illegal actions.  If I did something wrong, I will pay the price, but not if it's something nebulous or comes from judgement and tainted by the officer's bad day.

In reply to Curtis :

Recently, a local municipality wrote a ticket for "not stopping long enough" at a stop sign that is positioned on a 90* corner with no cross streets. When she asked him is she came to a full and complete stop the officer replied "yes but not long enough". She took it to court and got it thrown out but still wasted a day in court to fight a BS ticket. The whole thing is ridiculous, the sign does nothing but create revenue. There is no chance of a collision there, no cross street, no crosswalk, nothing. 

Extend that to the topic at hand and I could see the same officer writing ticket after ticket in winter here where you'd eventually get it thrown out but have to waste a day off work to do so. 

We could have way less laws and way more freedom if we got everyone to agree to stop being asswipes, but i doubt thats going to happen anytime soon.

Heres the thing, i think the loud smoky diesels are super douchey and annoying also, but if you push for laws you will get laws. And the law wont be targeted at just banning what you dont like. It will be something along the lines of you cant modify the exhaust or fuel system of any vehicle. That would fix it, wouldnt it? You dont like the lift kits and big tires? No problem, the manufacturer puts a sticker right on the door jam that says what tire size you are allowed, that can be a law. But that kind of berkeleys up the whole hobby. So now theres no more high flow exhaust or bigger injectors for your car. No wider tires stuffed under your fenders. And once its a law it is there forever. If your argument is we need this for air quality, well racetracks also share our same air, so why limit this to street vehicles? Why should i be forced to breathe the pollution generated by all the race cars at the dirt track or those weirdos with the funny hats in the parking lot full of cones? Ban it. For the children.

Listen, the diesel thing is a fad. Just like custom vans in the 70s. Or glass packs and air shocks in the 80s. Or huge subwoofers in the 90s. Or ricers in the 00s. Or custom harleys of 05-15. This will pass. I actually think its already on its way out. So lets just let it die on its own without trying to incur any unnecessary overreaching government reaction. 

I just wonder what the next fad is that will take its place?