Is Detroit gonna make it?

Not the car company, the city. Detroit was once a great city. It was pretty much where the modern industrial age was born, the middle class was concieved and born here, the modern automobile and most, if not all of it's assembly practices. Then we (THEY) elected a string of corrupt mayors and the city is imploding. The AVERAGE COST FOR A HOME is less than 20K, There is not ONE national grocery store chain that operates in it's almost 140 square miles, illiteracy is about 50%, unsolved murder rate is about 70%, High School dropout rate is about 75%.



I saw my neighborhood go to crap in less than 10 years. I'm talking about a very nice neighborhood full of families that cared about each other. Then one day there was a new family that came in. The next thing I know there are shootings, crack houses and dog fighting rings. There was a street not too far from my house (less than 3 miles I'd say) that had 2 houses, on the whole 3 block long street, both sides of the street!
Anyway, do you guys think Detroit will ever recover or will the major auto manufacturers move out and find greener pastures?
BTW, I got out as soon as I could. 24 years was enough for me. Then I got my mom out of the city. Now when she goes back she can't believe she actually lived in that neighborhood.

I recently read of a proposal to bulldoze some of the worst areas and replace them with "green spaces" like parks and re-forestation projects.

It was a blue-sky proposal that supposedly would create smaller enclaves of utopian suburbia while removing the blight of urban decay.

Maybe it would work, if any funding was actually available.

To turn around a Neighborhood it takes a lot of good hearted people of one wealthy investor. To turn around an entire City it would take a lot more of both and I don't see Detroit having enough of either.

Detroit will get much, much worse before it gets better. As will Flint. The tax revenues required to maintain that large of an area will not come back for a long time, so streets and utilities will be neglected. Widespread new construction won't happen because utilities will be cost-prohibitiive. Some small neighborhoods may regrow, but as a whole, Detroit will have to drastically downsize, which will also be expensive. The city won't be able to afford tax breaks for companies (compared to other US cities), so large corporations will go elsewhere. The North American highway system will allow Detroits few resources to be shipped elsewhere cheaply and quickly, so companies won't have to relocate here, as was required 100 years ago.

Hundreds of years ago, when cities fell apart, the ruins were somewhat easily returned to the earth. Now, concrete will be around for centuries, and the effect of roads and houses on the land makes farming difficult and unproductive (especially compared to most of our country).

How sad.

Dr., were those pictures from an article? If so, would you link to it? I'm interested in reading more.

http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm

"The Fabulous Ruins of Detroit"

It's easy to spend an hour on this site, if you have any interest in the D.

My employer is based out of Detroit and Minneapolis.....and we are in manufacturing........I hope so.

The D has been rotting from the center for many years now, much like many other "formerly great" midwest cities. I grew up in Toledo (same) and now I spend a lot of time in Cleveland (same.) I worked in metro Detroit from '97 to '04

Hey Doc, what area of town was it that you moved away from?

The website above about the Ruins is great. I have viewed it before and yes, you can spend a lot of time there.

I thought the whole state of Michigan had been sold to an oil sheik who was making it an indoor theme park.

DrBoost wrote: I saw my neighborhood go to crap in less than 10 years. I'm talking about a very nice neighborhood full of families that cared about each other. Then one day there was a new family that came in. The next thing I know there are shootings, crack houses and dog fighting rings. There was a street not too far from my house (less than 3 miles I'd say) that had 2 houses, on the whole 3 block long street, both sides of the street!

I live in Oakland county and I am very concerned about that possible "new family" that might appear now that houses are realtively cheap. We live in a beautiful community with virtually no crime, but it would be so easy for the cancer of Detroit to spread.

dyintorace wrote: How sad. Dr., were those pictures from an article? If so, would you link to it? I'm interested in reading more.

I just googled "forgotten Detroit" because there's a website by that name. There are tons of places just like that. There are houses in downtown that, you can tell were the absolute most beautiful houses in the midwest. Now they look like the pics above.

Near my employer. The norm.

jrw1621 wrote: The D has been rotting from the center for many years now, much like many other "formerly great" midwest cities. I grew up in Toledo (same) and now I spend a lot of time in Cleveland (same.) I worked in metro Detroit from '97 to '04 Hey Doc, what area of town was it that you moved away from? The website above about the Ruins is great. I have viewed it before and yes, you can spend a lot of time there.

I was in Northwest Detroit. 6 mile and grand river area, "old Redford" as it's known. It was great. We'd walk up to the Old Redford Theater, go to Master's Candies next door during intermission. Your friends mom was like yours. When dinner time rolled around, you all would eat dinner at whose ever house you happened to be at.
My old house, the one with the ramp. It's a 2300 square foot house, basement, new windows, roof, plumbing, double lot and it's in great shape with tons of character. My mom sold it BEFORE the market went totally bust, she got a touch over 30K for it

WilD wrote:

DrBoost wrote: I saw my neighborhood go to crap in less than 10 years. I'm talking about a very nice neighborhood full of families that cared about each other. Then one day there was a new family that came in. The next thing I know there are shootings, crack houses and dog fighting rings. There was a street not too far from my house (less than 3 miles I'd say) that had 2 houses, on the whole 3 block long street, both sides of the street!

I live in Oakland county and I am very concerned about that possible "new family" that might appear now that houses are realtively cheap. We live in a beautiful community with virtually no crime, but it would be so easy for the cancer of Detroit to spread.

I'm just west of Pontiac, yes the decline is easy to start, hard to stop. It's a tough call, do I "hold the line" or give up and move, allowing further decline?

That's still probably $150K in NW AR, maybe more. We missed the part where house values trippled, but that means we miss the part where they crashed too. What we did get was every square inch of land covered in a new subdivision or an apartment complex. A lot of new McMansion subdivisons with 2 houses, some streets and a really fancy entrance.

I don't have much hope for Detroit. Once a city rots that bad, it's going to stay bad for a long time. And, as they say, the fish stinks from the head first. Until Detroit gets an honest government, it will never get better. Other large cities are not far behind it. Actually, our whole government structure is going that way. We may all be doomed to The D business model if we don't seriously get out and at a minimum vote them all out.

To save Detroit: New non-corrupt government (think about Hess' Law), zero tolerance for the crime you have described, even if it is a "lifestyle choice" or other PC BS. Legalize drugs outright and remove that whole economic sector of society (no need to rob for yo crack if yo can gets it for beer moneys.) Illegal aliens back to wherever they came from (a two tier society is doomed) or put on a real pathway to citizenship while the borders are actually enforced. The recent posting of someone's friend getting assaulted on the streets wherever and that due to the gun control laws, law-abiding citizens can't have guns but all the criminals can and do is just a hint of what's wrong. Try to get some jobs in once things get safe. No one is going to want to set up shop if their family isn't safe at home. A business climate that is actually FOR business and jobs instead of actively against them will also be required. I understand that the state has some serious Governor issues too. Unions? Well, they are either going to have to get REAL "can-do" or go under with the rest of us. By the same token, business is going to have to get real "can-do" as well and less "I got a quarter billion dollars for destroying Home Depot and getting fired!! WOOT!!"

What are the chances of all this happening? Zero.

So, Detroit has become a third world zone within the U.S. The best thing for you as an individual in Detroit to do is "Run Away!!" given that the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch is banned in our country as well. Boost seems to have done this already, if a bit late.

Oh, and Kramer: Saw a study that said concrete keeps getting stronger for 100 years, then it looses all its strength really fast. In a thousand or two years, even the rebar will be rusted away.

FWIW, rebar can accelerate concrete deterioration. It provides a path for water, allowing rust, creating cavities, etc.

Compare some of the Roman concrete structures - still standing - and the rebar reinforced WWII bunkers at Normandy - already crumbling.

As cold as this sounds i want Detroit to fail and then made an example of. The people of Detroit have voted in people who started this whole ball rolling and have continued to vote in the same damn people year after year. This really goes for the state leadership as well.

An idea this bad needs to fail so no one else makes these mistakes.

This is what i fully expect detroit to look like in 10 years.

Whats that you say? Not enough snow, to much desert?.... global warming

In a few years you'll be able to film the coolest Mad Max movie of all time!!!!

WilD wrote:

DrBoost wrote: I saw my neighborhood go to crap in less than 10 years. I'm talking about a very nice neighborhood full of families that cared about each other. Then one day there was a new family that came in. The next thing I know there are shootings, crack houses and dog fighting rings. There was a street not too far from my house (less than 3 miles I'd say) that had 2 houses, on the whole 3 block long street, both sides of the street!

I live in Oakland county and I am very concerned about that possible "new family" that might appear now that houses are realtively cheap. We live in a beautiful community with virtually no crime, but it would be so easy for the cancer of Detroit to spread.

Yeah, I tried not to be to un-PC with my "new family" comment but I can't hide the truth. That was the beginning of the end for that neighborhood. After we left Det-riot we were in Livonia and we saw the cancer spreading. Not taking up permanent residence (yet) but coming in for a visit, and the occasional plundering of our goods.

JohnGalt wrote: As cold as this sounds i want Detroit to fail and then made an example of. The people of Detroit have voted in people who started this whole ball rolling and have continued to vote in the same damn people year after year. This really goes for the state leadership as well. An idea this bad needs to fail so no one else makes these mistakes.

The voters remaining in Detroit (and other distressed cities) believe that politicians will save them, ignorant that politicians have doomed them to a marginal existence.

Detroit is a national disgrace because it illustrates the failure of government as the saviour of society. New Orleans needed Katrina to make it an international disgrace, but at least the Motor City's demise is not all "Bush's fault"; although some will try to spin it that way.

I'm not trying to "flounder" this thread, but there is SO much wrong in the rust-belt states and there are way too many people who cannot see or admit their failures - and that applies to politicians and those who put them in office.

I live in Michigan's taint. The fine area between the nutsack, (Flint) and the shiny happy person (Detoit).
I for one really dont enjoy Flint at all except for the small music scene it has emerging. But really... Michigan's music scene isn't that great to begin with, so that's not saying much.
Detroit on the other hand has a bit of character still. As well as some people that are still proud of what it was/is. I know the chances are slim, but I'd like to see at least parts of Detroit brought back to life. Talks of automotive hybrid battery production could be a good start. Where as the talks of "new hollywood" are already retired. Michigan's next concern after Flint and Detroit have both been reduce to ruins is Saginaw which seems to getting sicker with the Detroit virus at an alarming rate.

5ev3n wrote: I live in Michigan's taint. The fine area between the nutsack, (Flint) and the shiny happy person (Detoit).

That would be the perineum.

Dr. Hess wrote:

5ev3n wrote: I live in Michigan's taint. The fine area between the nutsack, (Flint) and the shiny happy person (Detoit).

That would be the perineum.

Close to the area that is actually pronounced "Grand Blank."

Blank [blangk]

–noun. a place where something is lacking;

Ah yes, the great nothing. I thought it was with a "c"... I'm actually in Fenton. Not far off from both Detroit or Flint, but I love it here.