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mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/10/19 9:22 p.m.

There is a reason I have only ever bought 1 new car. I could have bought more, but between depreciation and my complete disdain for haggling, just tell me the price, don't try to stiff me on "extras" and let buy the damn car.

 

Autolenders, where I bought my Abarth, while their prices seem higher, It is a what you see is what you pay kind of place. My Fiat was right on the money for the KBB and it was in fantastic shape, so I was happy to hand over the dead presidents and be out the door in less than 45 minutes.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/11/19 8:42 a.m.

In reply to mad_machine :

A good honest salesman should educate you, not sell you.  For example there are some options you should get even if you don’t want them or think you need them.  

Blind spot detectors.  I know you always look etc. but if the car has them your insurance is much cheaper.  More than enough to pay for them.  

Same thing with back up camera. 

And double it for the so called intelligent cruise control. ( the one that gives you automatic braking ) 

They are very reliable, They have to be, but even if they weren’t as long as your serial numbers reflect their installation you keep getting the  lower insurance rate.  

Robbie
Robbie GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
4/11/19 9:04 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to mad_machine :

A good honest salesman should educate you, not sell you.  For example there are some options you should get even if you don’t want them or think you need them.  

Blind spot detectors.  I know you always look etc. but if the car has them your insurance is much cheaper.  More than enough to pay for them.  

Same thing with back up camera. 

And double it for the so called intelligent cruise control. ( the one that gives you automatic braking ) 

They are very reliable, They have to be, but even if they weren’t as long as your serial numbers reflect their installation you keep getting the  lower insurance rate.  

I'm sorry but there is no way I can expect a car salesman to know the exact impact of his car's features on my insurance rates.

Maybe "insurance is generally cheaper with these safety features" but getting the exact number in order to know if the total cost is actually cheaper or not is not something anyone knows off the top of their head. 

If a salesman looked me straight in the face and told me that buying his safety features would save me money overall (ie the money saved on insurance is greater than the money spent on the feature), I would know he was lying straight to my face. Now, if the buyer wanted to get their insurance agent on the phone while they are looking at cars, that may not be a bad idea, and if the salesman suggested it, then i'm all about that extra work. 

Point is, before you "educate" someone you have to 1. know their current level of understanding, and 2. actually know what you are talking about. How many Jag specialists out there actually recommend swapping in a chevy v8 'for reliability'?

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/11/19 9:19 a.m.

In reply to Robbie :

And that's before we get to "most car salespeople know less about the cars they sell than the manufacturer lists in their brochure".

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/11/19 10:10 a.m.
BoxheadTim said:

In reply to Robbie :

And that's before we get to "most car salespeople know less about the cars they sell than the manufacturer lists in their brochure".

There is the main problem.  The average dealership goes through at least one complete turnover*of its sales force per year, some many times that.  

* That does not mean everyone is fired it means if they have a sales force of 25 there will be at least 25 new guys hired in a year. Some will last more than a year while others are replaced several times a year.  

To hire that many people means just about anybody who wants a job can be hired.  No real training required.  

Stepping back a moment, why would a dealership need that many salesmen?  It’s a high burn out rate job for one, and a surprising number of sales to a new salesman is to family and friends.  Once that list is used up, sales for that person fall off to the point where what little income he makes is not worth all the time invested.  Dealerships care nothing about the sales force except the volume and profit it generates. 

Back to knowledge. There are periods where it’s all hands on deck, customers waiting.  No time to seek information. Sell,Sell, Sell!! 

Other times where few if any customers are around so Sales meetings will be held. Closing techniques discussed, market knowledge shared,  “We are the Number 2 Chevy dealership for the month”

”There is a spiff on the Blue Honda Odesey of $300, and the Green Ford crew cab is marked down again. 

Oh and don’t forget to mention the extended warranty because that doubles your commission.  

Yet I never once heard anyone talk about technical details of the cars.   

Remember sales are a commission job.  No sales, no commission. Some dealerships do pay a minimum wage ( $7.50/ hr ) for scheduled floor time as a draw against commission.  But replace any salesman who takes 2 draws.  Others just fire the lowest producers for the month.  ( makes taking time off, sick days, or a vacation extremely risky ). 

Back to your point. There is a flood of knowledge available to salesmen.  However selling is much more important than knowledge.  

Customers want to feel good buying.  Having the salesman more knowledgeable  does not give that same feeling to most people.  Few people have any skill in negotiating and most come into a dealership fearful.  

 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/11/19 10:16 a.m.
Robbie said:
frenchyd said:

In reply to mad_machine :

A good honest salesman should educate you, not sell you.  For example there are some options you should get even if you don’t want them or think you need them.  

Blind spot detectors.  I know you always look etc. but if the car has them your insurance is much cheaper.  More than enough to pay for them.  

Same thing with back up camera. 

And double it for the so called intelligent cruise control. ( the one that gives you automatic braking ) 

They are very reliable, They have to be, but even if they weren’t as long as your serial numbers reflect their installation you keep getting the  lower insurance rate.  

I'm sorry but there is no way I can expect a car salesman to know the exact impact of his car's features on my insurance rates.

Maybe "insurance is generally cheaper with these safety features" but getting the exact number in order to know if the total cost is actually cheaper or not is not something anyone knows off the top of their head. 

If a salesman looked me straight in the face and told me that buying his safety features would save me money overall (ie the money saved on insurance is greater than the money spent on the feature), I would know he was lying straight to my face. Now, if the buyer wanted to get their insurance agent on the phone while they are looking at cars, that may not be a bad idea, and if the salesman suggested it, then i'm all about that extra work. 

Point is, before you "educate" someone you have to 1. know their current level of understanding, and 2. actually know what you are talking about. How many Jag specialists out there actually recommend swapping in a chevy v8 'for reliability'?

The only way you’ll ever know is if you get the serial number of a car with those features and compare it to its twin without them.  

On the other hand you might not even then. Insurance is a sales job too, a good agent should know if you are price shopping him or serious. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/11/19 10:21 a.m.
frenchyd said:

Blind spot detectors.  I know you always look etc. but if the car has them your insurance is much cheaper.  More than enough to pay for them.  

Same thing with back up camera. 

And double it for the so called intelligent cruise control. ( the one that gives you automatic braking ) 

They are very reliable, They have to be, but even if they weren’t as long as your serial numbers reflect their installation you keep getting the  lower insurance rate.  

Back up cameras have been Federal Law for about a year, so I seriously doubt that has any impact on insurance rates. Nor do I think blind spot detectors. 

But that would be easy, call your insurance agent and ask for quotes between a trim level that includes blind spot detectors and one that doesn't. And then determine, if there is a rate difference, it's because of "safety features" or the thousands of dollars in difference in MSRPs between the trim levels.

 

Sorry frenchy, so many of your posts contain flat out speculation and hyperbole.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/11/19 10:22 a.m.
frenchyd said:
Robbie said:
frenchyd said:

In reply to mad_machine :

A good honest salesman should educate you, not sell you.  For example there are some options you should get even if you don’t want them or think you need them.  

Blind spot detectors.  I know you always look etc. but if the car has them your insurance is much cheaper.  More than enough to pay for them.  

Same thing with back up camera. 

And double it for the so called intelligent cruise control. ( the one that gives you automatic braking ) 

They are very reliable, They have to be, but even if they weren’t as long as your serial numbers reflect their installation you keep getting the  lower insurance rate.  

I'm sorry but there is no way I can expect a car salesman to know the exact impact of his car's features on my insurance rates.

Maybe "insurance is generally cheaper with these safety features" but getting the exact number in order to know if the total cost is actually cheaper or not is not something anyone knows off the top of their head. 

If a salesman looked me straight in the face and told me that buying his safety features would save me money overall (ie the money saved on insurance is greater than the money spent on the feature), I would know he was lying straight to my face. Now, if the buyer wanted to get their insurance agent on the phone while they are looking at cars, that may not be a bad idea, and if the salesman suggested it, then i'm all about that extra work. 

Point is, before you "educate" someone you have to 1. know their current level of understanding, and 2. actually know what you are talking about. How many Jag specialists out there actually recommend swapping in a chevy v8 'for reliability'?

The only way you’ll ever know is if you get the serial number of a car with those features and compare it to its twin without them.  

On the other hand you might not even then. Insurance is a sales job too, a good agent should know if you are price shopping him or serious. 

Agents don't set rates, the underwriters do. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
4/11/19 10:52 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

OK , ? 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
4/11/19 10:58 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to z31maniac :

OK , ? 

You said an insurance agent should know "if you're shopping him or serious," as though either scenario would impact the quote you are given.

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