Is it me, or are vehicle sales really that broken? A question wrapped in a rant

RealMiniNoMore said:

Wouldn't take a Triumph in trade? An actual motorcycle? Hell, I traded in my Vespa, for a Harley. A damn scooter! 

Not only that, but the salesperson offered zero assistance with the Triumph other than "well, sell it to the people across the road". Not even "hey, I'm going to call my buddy the used bike buyer over there and he'll come over to check out your bike while you take the Ultra Glide around the block".

While his explanation - Harley Finance doesn't write loans on non-Harley bikes, the Triumph is too new for a cash buyer so they'd have to wholesale it - makes sense to me from a business perspective, the arrogance of the implied "^you're shopping out of your price range, and I don't even have to pretend to put in an effort to sell a bike" was very offputting.

And to be fair to Harley dealers, this is the first ever experience of this kind I've had with a Harley dealer. But then again, I know for a fact that the Carson City Harley dealer has no problem whatsoever taking non-Harleys as trades, or at least didn't a few years ago.

Last "newer" car I bought I went through a broker. Told him my price range and what I wanted. He stalked the Manheim auction listings for a few weeks until one came up. He snagged it, charged me a fair finders fee, and I saved thousands of dollars. I didn't save time though, as part of the deal was me helping him pick it up from the auction. I spent a good half a day shuttling around town doing that, but it was a fun adventure.

Sounds like the Honda dealer was willing to take care of you. 

As for the other stuff, I've never had the resounding negative experience that many here share when talking about dealerships.

In reply to z31maniac :

Me either!  I don’t get that here. And it’s not like I live in some magic fairy land of good dealers. It’s usually clear right away if the dealership is going to be jerks, and I just walk. And on actual closing, even with financing I’ve never had it take more that 90 minutes, if that. 

I’ve bought 4 vehicles from dealerships. The most time I’ve spent at one is 2hrs and that was because they were trying to find what I wanted. 

I believe people go in with , “They’re going to screw us, so let’s berkeley with them.” attitude and why the whole process is “slimy”. It’s unrealistic expectations on both sides. I’ve gone in knowing what I was looking for and it’s price range and didn’t even negotiate on my last two purchases. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to BoxheadTim :

You should look at it wearing a salesmen’s shoes.  Selling cars is the most soul crushing thing a human can do.  

Nope waiting tables is.  You are flat out an unlicensed therapist.  For less than $4 an hour base to cover your taxes you have to make someone feel special or little to no pay for you sonny boy.  Less than 5% could give a E36 M3 and only want the old school professional highly competent waiter nowadays.

We've gone from the ' Triumph of the Therapeutic ' to what I call the tyranny of the therapeutic.  I've even noticed it as a rideshare driver.  Must get the skills to get out.

Sorry for the thread jack but my car buying experience was fairly painless because they knew they had something of a turd in manual and wanted to get rid of it. 

This is my problem too. Something happened. When I was 19 and bagging groceries, I was always taken seriously and offered test drives. Now that I'm in my early forties and earning quite a bit more, I get the filter.

I'm at a Chevy dealer. I pull up in a $40,000 Volt from two years ago, point at my car and tell the Salesbro that the lease is up in two weeks. He tells me he can't get keys for a V6 Camaro, unless, you know, I put in a deposit.

Meanwhile, he's hanging out with a woman from the front desk, who keeps telling me I'm definitely a Camaro guy.

How do you filter as a timewaster someone who has your brand of product, which actually costs more, has a fixed date to replace that product? I've proved ability to afford and I've proved need to purchase. I really think I was a slam dunk.

If there were a monopoly, I'd imagine running out the clock would make me desperate, but there are cars for sale everywhere. There are Chevy dealers everywhere. There are salespeople everywhere. I've always thought the sales ethos was close today. Your customer may come back after sleeping on it, or they may not, so close today.

I bought a car off the internet that weekend. 

BoxheadTim said:

codrus said:

Some of the clothing thing is regional -- you just moved to the east coast from California, right?  My impression is that dressing nice is considered much more important on the east coast than the west.

Well, I didn't show up in my "homeless IT guy" rags. I was actually wearing a nice casual shirt - not one of my expensive British work shirts, admittedly and clean new jeans. I'm aware that you're dressing a little bit less casually over here than on the West Coast but I tended to overdress on the West Coast a bit anyway.

Second thread jack.  You're into expensive British shirts.  I've got maybe three Charles Tyrwhitt ( about $60 retail ) shirts taking up room in my closet from an old restaurant that closed.  In like new shape and the price is free.  I was getting ready to toss them anyways. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to Patrick :

Don’t go in to buy!  Use the internet!  On the internet you have all the power they have none. Once you’re on their grounds they have all the power and know the tricks. 

Around here there are 2 dealers who work on volume and consistently price trucks like mine at 13-15k off sticker where the rest price them at sticker and leave it to the customer to go back and forth with the sales person trying to get the price down.  I’m more than happy to go to them, point what i want, have them be fair with my trade, and drive away happy knowing I didn’t have to wait for the salesperson to “go check with the sales manager” 15 times at 10 minutes a pop.  My time is too valuable to go kick tires 3 times and walk away.  I paid for my truck new what the same trucks 2 years old with 50k miles were selling for every day on ebay.  Plus they gave me what I considered top dollar for a 12 year old 160k mile Avalanche with a clicking transfer case, 15 year old tires on steel wheels, and that my kids had abused inside for 3 years 

  I have done the internet “i’ll pay X out the door and be there on Y day” thing and it worked once.  

Also, I don’t fall for sale tricks,  I’ve been selling since i was 16.  I’ve done the schools where you learn all the tricks.  I inform myself as a consumer and buy when i am comfortable knowing i am making the right decision for myself.  I go in to buy a specific item, and go buy it from who i believe has the best price on it.  

Mike said:

This is my problem too. Something happened. When I was 19 and bagging groceries, I was always taken seriously and offered test drives. Now that I'm in my early forties and earning quite a bit more, I get the filter.

Maybe they think that there's now an additional decision maker in the household.  Correction the decision making responsibilities have shifted somewhat completely out of your orbit?  I have no idea I'm just joking.  But.... not a turrible theory.  

Patrick said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to Patrick :

Don’t go in to buy!  Use the internet!  On the internet you have all the power they have none. Once you’re on their grounds they have all the power and know the tricks. 

Around here there are 2 dealers who work on volume and consistently price trucks like mine at 13-15k off sticker where the rest price them at sticker and leave it to the customer to go back and forth with the sales person trying to get the price down.  I’m more than happy to go to them, point what i want, have them be fair with my trade, and drive away happy knowing I didn’t have to wait for the salesperson to “go check with the sales manager” 15 times at 10 minutes a pop.  My time is too valuable to go kick tires 3 times and walk away.  I paid for my truck new what the same trucks 2 years old with 50k miles were selling for every day on ebay.  Plus they gave me what I considered top dollar for a 12 year old 160k mile Avalanche with a clicking transfer case, 15 year old tires on steel wheels, and that my kids had abused inside for 3 years 

 

  I have done the internet “i’ll pay X out the door and be there on Y day” thing and it worked once.  

Who's your dealer, I want a newish f150 semi loaded lol. 

nutherjrfan said:

BoxheadTim said:

codrus said:

Some of the clothing thing is regional -- you just moved to the east coast from California, right?  My impression is that dressing nice is considered much more important on the east coast than the west.

Well, I didn't show up in my "homeless IT guy" rags. I was actually wearing a nice casual shirt - not one of my expensive British work shirts, admittedly and clean new jeans. I'm aware that you're dressing a little bit less casually over here than on the West Coast but I tended to overdress on the West Coast a bit anyway.

Second thread jack.  You're into expensive British shirts.  I've got maybe three Charles Tyrwhitt ( about $60 retail ) shirts taking up room in my closet from an old restaurant that closed.  In like new shape and the price is free.  I was getting ready to toss them anyways. 

Funnily enough about half my work shirts are Tyrwhitts . I'd definitely be interested if they're the right size.

yupididit said:

Patrick said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to Patrick :

Don’t go in to buy!  Use the internet!  On the internet you have all the power they have none. Once you’re on their grounds they have all the power and know the tricks. 

Around here there are 2 dealers who work on volume and consistently price trucks like mine at 13-15k off sticker where the rest price them at sticker and leave it to the customer to go back and forth with the sales person trying to get the price down.  I’m more than happy to go to them, point what i want, have them be fair with my trade, and drive away happy knowing I didn’t have to wait for the salesperson to “go check with the sales manager” 15 times at 10 minutes a pop.  My time is too valuable to go kick tires 3 times and walk away.  I paid for my truck new what the same trucks 2 years old with 50k miles were selling for every day on ebay.  Plus they gave me what I considered top dollar for a 12 year old 160k mile Avalanche with a clicking transfer case, 15 year old tires on steel wheels, and that my kids had abused inside for 3 years 

 

  I have done the internet “i’ll pay X out the door and be there on Y day” thing and it worked once.  

 

Who's your dealer, I want a newish f150 semi loaded lol. 

Do not ever buy a car/truck at a dealership,   Ever!!  

 Sure buy it from a dealership  but don’t go there!  Use the internet!!  Sitting at home you have the upper hand.  Sitting at the dealership they hold the better cards. 

If you are don’t know how/ or are afraid of a computer. Work the deal out over the phone.  Just realize they don’t have a deal until you go in and sign. So once you have the deal you like go in and test drive it  to confirm it’s what you want. If not walk away.  If it is go in and sign!  You know how much you are going to pay the dealing is all done. 

Let’s all listen to the guy who says in order to sell you have to lie to the customer.  

In reply to frenchyd :

frenchyd said:

Tell the customer the truth and you will not sell him anything. 

In reply to frenchyd :

frenchyd said:

Tell the customer the truth and you will not sell him anything. Sell him what he wants for what he wants to pay and you won’t make a living. In fact management won’t approve the deal.  

In before the lock.

There's actually four. 

In reply to nutherjrfan :

Those look like the right size so I'd be more than happy to take them off your hands!

The point he was making with that statement is you have to combine the two to make a middle ground, not that you have to lie.

I see that E36 M3 all the time and I install furnaces instead of selling cars. You tell the customer the truth, that not only does he need a new heater and AC, but that every single bit of his 30 year old ductwork is out of code, leaks like crazy and is undersized to boot and that to do the job right it would require redoing everything to a likely tune of 20k+ and you're generally not getting the job. Same with the other part, Customer always wants Rheem equipment on Goodman pricing.

Instead you tell them that Goodman makes very good equipment for the price, which I have found to be true, and that we can seal up the leaks we can get to, increase the drop size and smack a return into an accessible place to alleviate the sizing issues

In reply to SVreX : Customers came in wanting to buy a newer used truck I couldn’t tell him he was making a mistake. That trucks like that could yield the dealership $5-6000 profit where a new truck would yield $300 profit.  That interest was free or cheaper on New than used 

That the payments on New could net out less than payments on used due to lower interest, cheaper insurance, lower profit,  and less maintenance. 

They would feel I was just trying to sell him what he didn’t want.  

People come in ready to do Battle. They want to win because all salesmen are cheats. They don’t negotiate often for things so they are at a disadvantage compared to salesmen who do it all day long 6 days a week.  

I tell people to use the internet. They are on their home ground, have time to think and compare. Don’t have time pressures.  Can discuss it privately with wife and family.  

You’re suggesting the dealership is a better place? 

Grizz said:

The point he was making with that statement is you have to combine the two to make a middle ground, not that you have to lie.

I see that E36 M3 all the time and I install furnaces instead of selling cars. You tell the customer the truth, that not only does he need a new heater and AC, but that every single bit of his 30 year old ductwork is out of code, leaks like crazy and is undersized to boot and that to do the job right it would require redoing everything to a likely tune of 20k+ and you're generally not getting the job. Same with the other part, Customer always wants Rheem equipment on Goodman pricing.

Instead you tell them that Goodman makes very good equipment for the price, which I have found to be true, and that we can seal up the leaks we can get to, increase the drop size and smack a return into an accessible place to alleviate the sizing issues

Thank You!  People believe the  “The customer is always right!”  

Well he isn’t often because he’s working with outdated information.  A good salesmen will educate a customer. Not sell a customer.  

If you educate him, you run the risk of offending him and losing the sale. Easiest thing to do is say yes sir! Sign here, press hard the last copy is yours. 

But you’ve done nothing of value to him.  Educate him, and he will be a better informed consumer.  

How many of you remember a great teacher?  

How many remember your car salesman?  

In reply to frenchyd :

Nope. I’m not suggesting anything at all. Just answering your question. 

In reply to frenchyd :

Frenchy regardless of your experience, you do seem to be talking out both sides of your mouth on this. Here’s what I am hearing:

”Salesmen have a hard job.  They and their companies deserve high markups so they can survive”

”...but don’t use salesmen or dealerships. Make sure you squeeze them as hard as possible using internet based tools so you can save as much money as possible and deny them their markup”

You can’t have it both ways. 

RealMiniNoMore said:

In reply to frenchyd :

frenchyd said:

Tell the customer the truth and you will not sell him anything. Sell him what he wants for what he wants to pay and you won’t make a living. In fact management won’t approve the deal.  

Yeh, I should have clarified that better.  

The easiest thing to do as a salesman is say yes sir sign here.  Then turn him over to sales managers to shove the sale down his throat. 

That’s why I always suggest you do your shopping on the internet rather than the dealership. 

You are on your schedule, your home. With your family to discuss privately. You picked it out, it’s what you want at a price you are willing to pay.  

Then you go in.  If it turns out to be terrible or not what was agreed upon  turn around and walk away. In and out in 15 minutes. 

Hey,  where is the guy that always comes into these discussions and insists:

”dealerships are like that because people want it that way, they like to haggle”

Maybe some people (there certainly are people who enjoy the process), but not a lot in the US.