Is it time for a resurrection of old ideals

With everything that has been happening lately it has made me wonder if it isn't time for a resurrection of some old ideals...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government..."

You know what the real problem is? "We the people". There aren't enough of us that are engaged in our own government. Everyone complains about it but no one wants to put forth the effort to really do anything differently.

Thus, we have the two current candidates. Oh sure, one is running on a platform of 'change' (whatever that means; it's never really been explained with any detail) but there aren't enough of us out there ready to fight the status quo to return government back to one of the people and not the special interest loving two party system.

I personally believe that the only candidate that had a "We the people..." mentality was Ron Paul, and "the people" didn't seem to care about him or his ideals.

It's too bad, I would still love to see what he could do as this country's leader.

"The Change" means that we're going to stop deficit spending on the military and start deficit spending on more socialized programs.

Nobody is interested in the slightest about real change.

I suggest this to help reduce spending:

1: All elected officials be paid the current median income of the area they represent, all the way up to Commander in Chief.

2: All health care for elected officials to be instituted through the current MEDICARE system.

3: All retirement funds for elected officials will be controlled by the Social Security Administration.

4: All taxes due for public officials on April 15th annually.

seems pretty fair to me. I am certain the Median income will go up and the MEDICARE and SSA problems will be resolved within a month.

I have spent the last 24 hours in the ER and this has been what I have been thinking.

ddavidv wrote: You know what the real problem is? "We the people". There aren't enough of us that are engaged in our own government. Everyone complains about it but no one wants to put forth the effort to really do anything differently. Thus, we have the two current candidates. Oh sure, one is running on a platform of 'change' (whatever that means; it's never really been explained with any detail) but there aren't enough of us out there ready to fight the status quo to return government back to one of the people and not the special interest loving two party system.

Couldn't have said it better.

Margie

It is funny how the declaration and constitution can be veiwed as, an outline(?) for a second revolution.

Ctrl+Alt+Delete

John Brown wrote: 4: All taxes due for public officials on April 15th annually.

I think April 1st would be a more appropriate day

neon4891 wrote: It is funny how the declaration and constitution can be veiwed as, an outline(?) for a second revolution.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Have you read the actual "grievances" section of the Declaration of Independence? I'm sure that a very similar list could be written for the modern government.

You don't have to believe in your government to be a good American. You just have to believe in your country.

neon4891 wrote: It is funny how the declaration and constitution can be veiwed as, an outline(?) for a second revolution.

More peaple are concerned about a phone number mixup for American Idol than voted in mid term elections.

If peaple won't vote, they won't revolt, as long as there is something good on TV. The collisium is Rome and Rome is the collisium

Chris, have you seen any TV lately? All I see is crap on TV.

and

I have never played so much Madden in my life.

It's like George Carlin said a few months before he died (paraphrasing): It's all screwed up, but everyone has a cell phone that makes pancakes so no one cares. Those in power know that and as long as we get cell phones that make pancakes, everything else they do to us is just fine. This oil thing is pushing the envelope.

I'm with Captainzib. We had the candidate you all wanted, but you listened when the mainstream media told you he was a kook who wanted only to legalize drugs and prostitution.

Wowak wrote: who wanted only to legalize drugs and prostitution.

Whats wrong with that?

Wowak wrote: I'm with Captainzib. We had the candidate you all wanted, but you listened when the mainstream media told you he was a kook who wanted only to legalize drugs and prostitution.

Dude, he couldn't even get on the ballot in Pennsyltucky IIRC...

There's ideals, then there's realism. I'm a realist, and I vote for the best chance we have at the time. Nobody's perfect, and some bodies' less perfect than others...

Gearhead_42 wrote:

Wowak wrote: I'm with Captainzib. We had the candidate you all wanted, but you listened when the mainstream media told you he was a kook who wanted only to legalize drugs and prostitution.

Dude, he couldn't even get on the ballot in Pennsyltucky IIRC...

but he can still be written in.

neon4891 wrote: It is funny how the declaration and constitution can be veiwed as, an outline(?) for a second revolution.

Why not? It was the outline for the first.

rebelgtp wrote: Have you read the actual "grievances" section of the Declaration of Independence? I'm sure that a very similar list could be written for the modern government.

Not long ago, I was asked to give a lecture on the founding of our country. In preparing for that lecture, I re-read the Declaration of Independence (and the Constitution). As I recall, about half of the "grievances" could be re-used as written or only slightly tweaked.

My personal favorite is: "He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance." That pretty much sums up the Federal government since at least the turn of the century (19th to 20th), if not Reconstruction.

The difference is that then there was no vote by the people. Today the people have been dumbed down and the voting diluted to a point that we vote for the government doing this to us. If you vote for an encumbant, you're part of the problem.

Damn, with school and work I shouldn't even have a project car! How am I supposed to find time to do what's right politically?!

John Brown wrote: Chris, have you seen any TV lately? All I see is crap on TV. ...I have never played so much Madden in my life.

Oh no doubt. But its what peaple want. Every has been or never was celeabrat has a "reality" show. After the soaps and self help talk shows, before the Family Guy reruns is nothing but entertianment "news" tracking the movements and latest non-news of the rich and beautiful. Then the news highlights doom and gloom, perpetuates racial hatred, predictes the downfall of our economy, ensures you remain scared enough to tune into the 10 news to get more of the same and ends with a rehash of the same celeucrap I've seen the previous three hours. No matter, as long as you stay inside and consume.

Then its three hours of "must see" dramas that make an empty promis to "Change they way you look at (insert problem here)", depressing in depth coverage of death and betrayal, newscasters helping law enforcement in sensionalisim of human depravity to increase your paranioa and brainless comedies that reall aren't that far off from the "I'll buy that for a dollar" punchline of Robocop. Or better watch your freinds and neighbors humiliate themselves by allowing another woman to live in their house, or an english aaccented woman dole out complicated exercises to parent that don't understand the basic of human interaction as well as action and consequnce. Perhaps some self-proclaimed expert can humilitate an aspiring perfomer for your amusement, or a group of folks can eat some bugs, get punched by a robot wall or simply fall in the mud to make you fee better about your unwillingness to do....well anything

Top it off with more sensationlised news of the coming economic crisis, oh and perhaps a mention in passing of someone's son or daughter who gave their life defending all of this just before the latest update on the next celebrity happening (Update, Anna Nicole is still DEAD)

Finally doze off in front of the talking funiture and the parade of nightly commentators mock all that you just spent your night keeping up with. Sure we laugh at Jay Dave and Jon, but we don't listen to the true warnings they deliver. Our once great society is falling apart, becuse no one cares.

The next day do it all again. But no matter, soon fall will be here and that means overpaid atheletes liking their silly game to a contest of honor and battle as they glorify violence and provide disapionting role models for our youth

Dr. Hess wrote: The difference is that then there was no vote by the people. Today the people have been dumbed down and the voting diluted to a point that we vote for the government doing this to us. If you vote for an encumbant, you're part of the problem.

If you vote for a politician in the current system you are supporting the problem.

Until the politicians stop using the position for profit there will be no great advances in our society. We (the world) are the greatest civilization to have ever ran this Earth but we are still idiots.

Greed and profits are driving the current world and since it has taken hold it will never be out of our systems.

TERM LIMITS.

/ thread

Mental, you forgot that you have to pay $710/yr for that "entertainment" and that includes 3 channels of 20 year old movies.