Be careful of the tinfoil hats; they actually amplify the two frequencies used for gps and cell phones. The whole tinfoil hat thing is just a conspiracy to make the people they really have to worry about more susceptible to manipulation. I will try to link the MIT study later (very amusing).
On a more serious note, aliens are a big enough thing that people will hold them as being more significant than country secrets. What is the point of worrying about Moscow if we really all need to work together to prepare for aliens? It makes for a good test. If you give alien hints and your crew doesn't leak the info, they most likely won't leak your secrets.
Area 51 was a working military location when they started the U2 project. It was a working location when the first little green men were spotted. Nobody talks about what was going on there when little green bodies were first spotted there, the little green men were the bigger news.
My grandfather saw a little green body being moved about in a ,"oops, don't let the incoming class of trainees see that we forgot that they were coming today," kind of way. As if a facility used to handling secrets would make that kind of mistake. What was he there for? He was in the first class of A bomb pilots in the early days of the cold war, just after WW2. He was learning how to arm and disarm (done every flight) as well as learning plans and protocols for our 24/7 strike capability over Russian targets. Prior to the ICBM, we maintained that ability with bombers.
He didn't talk about that until he was close to the end of his losing battle with Leukemia. He was the only one on the plane with the clearance to arm and disarm, done every flight...
ShawnG
UltimaDork
5/19/21 4:58 p.m.
If aliens have been observing us for even a limited amount of time, they've probably realised it would be prudent to stay the hell away from us.
Humans have been pretty horrible to each other since forever and the 20th century was probably the worst for us finding new and inventive ways to cause misery and do our best to wipe each other off the planet.
If we do this to each other, imagine how willing we would be to do it to something that is "not us".
Heck, we nailed a guy up just for saying it would be great if we were all nice to each other.
kazoospec said:
Way back in the 1990's, I was talking with a friend who's spouse was working on the "Aurora Project" (for Lockheed IIRC) in their accounting department. He indicated they were receiving MASSIVE amounts of dark money and that the "worst kept secret in the company" was that they were working on extremely advanced propulsion technology. That was 25 years ago . . . a lifetime in aviation technology.
I can tell you that if that person was either lying or was not working on any high level top secret projects.
My wife works for Lockheed and I have no idea what she works on. She is also regularly put through a lying detector and has to pass in order to keep her clearance. I do not work for the company and every time I travel outside of the US it's a total pita, I have to ask for permission and state my whole itinerary.
As a matter of fact I just learned about a project she worked on 15 or so years ago as it was on tv on the National Geographic channel ... lol.
I heard one of the sightings off of the coast of San Diego dropped 80k feet in 1 sec. That's nuts.
Slippery said:
kazoospec said:
Way back in the 1990's, I was talking with a friend who's spouse was working on the "Aurora Project" (for Lockheed IIRC) in their accounting department. He indicated they were receiving MASSIVE amounts of dark money and that the "worst kept secret in the company" was that they were working on extremely advanced propulsion technology. That was 25 years ago . . . a lifetime in aviation technology.
I can tell you that if that person was either lying or was not working on any high level top secret projects.
My wife works for Lockheed and I have no idea what she works on. She is also regularly put through a lying detector and has to pass in order to keep her clearance. I do not work for the company and every time I travel outside of the US it's a total pita, I have to ask for permission and state my whole itinerary.
As a matter of fact I just learned about a project she worked on 15 or so years ago as it was on tv on the National Geographic channel ... lol.
Doubt he was lying as he's not that kind of person. It's possible he was just "connecting the dots" rather than relaying information directly/specifically from her. Apparently (and the googles seem to confirm this), Aurora was pretty much the "worst kept secret" on the west coast among aviation enthusiasts at the time.
Assuming there's something to this...
If they wanted to go undetected they obviously could so either they don't care or the occasional sightings are a way to ease us into awareness.
Think about it, they're somehow capable of traveling 100's of light years or transcending time / dimension yet still manage to crash about as often
as a 5.0 Mustang doing burnouts at Cars & Coffee or Eek Schlap, the bungling alien, habitually forgets to throw the cloaking device switch; Ridiculous.
There could be some sort of "galactic protocol" for engaging primitives where you gently test readiness and only proceed if they demonstrate receptiveness.
Opti said:
In reply to FatMongo :
Counter Point:
People do know about it, but they are written off as conspiracy theorists. We do have the intelligence documents showing "conspiracy theory" was used as propaganda to discredit people
That sounds like the sort of thing a conspiracy theorist would say.
Aliens have been here for years, we just forget them when we aren't looking at them...
Streetwiseguy said:
Opti said:
In reply to FatMongo :
Counter Point:
People do know about it, but they are written off as conspiracy theorists. We do have the intelligence documents showing "conspiracy theory" was used as propaganda to discredit people
That sounds like the sort of thing a conspiracy theorist would say.
The great thing about conspiracy theories is that if someone doesn't believe in it, they automatically become part of the conspiracy.
They kept the A-12 and D-21 in the dark for 30 years. The F-117 and its base were totally dark for 10 (that's just the flying airframe, not the total program). The MiG squadron of Constant Peg was dark for 30 years.
Ben Rich, president of Lockheed and former head of the Skunk Works said, and I quote, "There's stuff out there in the desert that would make George Lucas drool."
This is one of those topics where I am agnostic to the max (I have several). When people who have devoted their whole life to finding the answer still don't know, and I have spent an hour collectively pondering it in my lifetime and I also still don't know......well I'm not going to worry about it. Wake me up when the spaceship comes and I'll flip on the TV.
I know that adds no value whatsoever. ;)
In reply to kazoospec :
I think you're right. I've been fortunate to see F22 Raptors in flight a couple times this year, and their maneuvers remind me of the beyond-reality spaceship flight characteristics from the original Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, etc. of the late-70's through early-80's.
Just last week I discovered that the F22 first flew in 1990. Try to imagine what an additional 30+ years of science & engineering development may be capable of.
I think (and certainly hope) there is other life out there somewhere. Would it be advanced enough to reach us, curious enough to investigate us, yet benevolent enough not to just obliterate us? That seems like a stretch to me.
Slippery said:
kazoospec said:
Way back in the 1990's, I was talking with a friend who's spouse was working on the "Aurora Project" (for Lockheed IIRC) in their accounting department. He indicated they were receiving MASSIVE amounts of dark money and that the "worst kept secret in the company" was that they were working on extremely advanced propulsion technology. That was 25 years ago . . . a lifetime in aviation technology.
I can tell you that if that person was either lying or was not working on any high level top secret projects.
My wife works for Lockheed and I have no idea what she works on. She is also regularly put through a lying detector and has to pass in order to keep her clearance. I do not work for the company and every time I travel outside of the US it's a total pita, I have to ask for permission and state my whole itinerary.
As a matter of fact I just learned about a project she worked on 15 or so years ago as it was on tv on the National Geographic channel ... lol.
If you dont know what you're talking about, best not to pontificate.
Your wife likely has a TS/SCI and gets routine counter intelligence or full scope polygraphs every 5 years - as per her periodic reinvistigation - depending on program she is in, she may have random selections for polygraphs. Everyone with an SCI must report all foreign travel - whether they are a janitor, a caefteria employee, or a high level analyst.
Sadly, in many facilities, or companies that work on sensitive projects, folks do alot more talking than they should and its not out of the realm of imagination for people to be aware of projects that they do not personally have access to - as in the case of the Aurora.
If there are aliens looking for signs of intelligent life they may be very disappointed. GRM excepted.
Maybe the UFO's are camera rigs, and we are starring in a big alien reality show without knowing it, like the Truman Show. And every so often they pump some story into the media get everybody all stirred up just to see how we react.
I have a feeling Earth is regarded as the universe's florida.
If they have developed enough to travel through time and space you know we look like a bunch of dumb berkeleys.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
5/19/21 10:19 p.m.
gearheadmb said:
I have a feeling Earth is regarded as the universe's florida.
This needs to be in "say what?"
In reply to ShawnG :
First rule of Say What is you do not say that should be in Say What.
It's a guaranteed shot in the foot.
It's just the Vogon constructor fleet preparing for their intergalactic highway construction project for a hyperspace express route
jgrewe
HalfDork
5/19/21 11:37 p.m.
In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :
I've got my towel and beer ready.
Driven5
UltraDork
5/20/21 1:05 a.m.
I've observed phenomena in the sky on more than one occasion that I simply can't explain... However, that doesn't mean aliens should be the first stop when trying to explain them either.
Life on other planets? Almost definitely.
Intelligent life on other planets? Most likely.
Intelligent life on other planets capable of developing space travel? Probably.
Intelligent life on other planets capable of developing space travel that can approach or exceed the speed of light? Maybe.
Intelligent life on other planets capable of developing space travel that can approach or exceed the speed of light before exhausting their resources or annihilating themselves? Probably not.
Intelligent life on other planets capable of developing space travel that can approach or exceed the speed of light before exhausting their resources or annihilating themselves that just kind of hangs around observing for decades (or more) without making their presence more known in either a friendly or hostile manner? Not likely.
Intelligent life on other planets capable of developing space travel that can approach or exceed the speed of light before exhausting their resources or annihilating themselves that just kind of hangs around observing for decades (or more) without making their presence more known in either a friendly or hostile manner that just so happens to occur during the same infinitesimally small sliver of time that 'technologically advanced' humans have actually existed? Almost definitely not.
I'd argue the probability is greater that we're living in a computer simulation.
In reply to Driven5 :
You forgot one possibility.
UFOs are man made, but from our future. We sent them back in time to do historical research. I can't imagine a better way of understanding the past than actually traveling to it and experiencing it first hand.
It's still an unlikely possibility but it does away with the remote notion of friendly aliens space traveling to Earth to do nothing but observation.
I always come back to the F-117. It became active duty in 1979. The public first learned of its existence in 1991. Its first active use was panama in 84.The F22 was hinted at in the late 80's.they did a really good job keeping a lot of this stuff secret for a long time.
As for aliens... I'm sure they're out there. They've probably already "visited" us.
