Is the NHRA getting to dangerous?

CHANDLER, Ariz. (February 21) -- A woman died Sunday after being hit by a tire from a crashing dragster at the NHRA Arizona Nationals.

The woman was watching a first-round Top Fuel run at Firebird International Raceway when Antron Brown's Matco Tools/U.S. Army dragster went out of control on the strip and its left rear wheel came off. It seems to me that the frequency and seriousness of Top fuel accidents has been on the rise for several years. I was at Englishtown back when Don Garlits dragster tried to launch itself into the sky like an MX missle back in the late '80's, that looks pretty tame compared to the recent accidents. Drag racing is cheap motorsports entertainment, but I'd think twice before taking my family these days. link to the whole story

No, people are simply forgetting that racing is a dangerous sport.

Not too say that perhaps some of the tracks should look at improving their fencing, etc but I would classify this as a freak accident and that it is unfortunate that she had to lose her life.

Racing has always been dangerous to watch. Read the disclaimer on the back of the ticket. Even British soccer doesn't warn of the risk of being maimed or killed just for watching. It seems almost every year something heads into the stands, I believe last year there was a whole monster truck that cleared a fence. One of the earliest lessons I learned from my dad was to pay attention.

Motorsports are attractive to people like us due to the element of danger, it is clear to anybody who attends that there are risks involved.

By the way Wally, nice avatar

The earliest lesson I learned to pay attention at any motorsports event was at a local circle track race and I got a huge ball of hot rubber shot strait at my forehead, holy crap did that hurt. Granted, it's pretty hard to move away from a huge tire flying at you, but an inch could have saved her life, not saying she wasn't paying attention but yea.

I'd say tracks need to work on their safety for both the racers and fans before saying the sport itself is too dangerous. Antron is still alive and that proves how safe those vehicle are, but unfortunately this lady lost her life due to the fact the track has no fences to protect from debris flying into the stands.

A very freak accident. The tire shake was so severe that it sheared off the wheel studs. That is reminiscent of the death of Eric Medlan a few years back when it shook so hard it split the tire and his head saw hundreds of Gs before he could shut it down.

When 8000 HP goes wrong, it typically goes very wrong.

My heart goes out to her. I suspect she knew the dangers, though, they initially had her pegged as a member of a nostalgia funny car team. They haven't denied that, though. Shelly Howard was another tragic incident. It's really too bad - these cars are orders of magnitude safer than they used to be only a few years ago.

I am proud of where I live, and feel like the folks around me are often subjected to some pretty unfair and unfounded stereotypes...until I go to the dirt track, and the race is held up for 20 minutes while the announcer says "Folks, for the 20th time, PLEASE get your children away from the fence and into the stands."

Motor sports is an inherently dangerous, and safety is absolutely essential for motor sports survival in litigious industrialized countries. A whole round of engineering went into catch fencing, the mandatory use of electronically triggered ignition and fuel cutoffs was instituted, and the 1/4 mile became 1000' after Kalitta's fatal and DeJoria's could well have been fatal crashes at English town in 2008 and 2009. Nobody with ownership stake in Motorsports accepts fatalities as a "goes with the territory" risk. Safety Engineering must keep up or the NHRA or any Motorsport organization will eventually cease to exist.

A partial list of safety changes in ther NHRA in the last couple of years: http://wapedia.mobi/en/National_Hot_Rod_Association

There will be a lawsuit in this unfortunate instance, bulkhead disclaimers printed on the back of tickets get blown up in court all the time, and this case has a head start:

"Pro Stock driver Greg Anderson, in his Summit Racing Pontiac, won his first-round match-up, then delivered a tirade about the safety of the track surface.

“That last 400 feet, I was this close to crashing. I’ve never been so close in all my life to crashing,” Anderson told ESPN’s Gary Gerould. “It is impassable out there. It is complete insanity to be on that race track right now. I am scared to death we’re going to lose more cars — and maybe more people — today.""

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.com/node.php?id=2589

poopshovel wrote: I am proud of where I live, and feel like the folks around me are often subjected to some pretty unfair and unfounded stereotypes...until I go to the dirt track, and the race is held up for 20 minutes while the announcer says "Folks, for the 20th time, PLEASE get your children away from the fence and into the stands."

Dixie Speedway?

Shaun, Given the late spectators affiliation with the NHRA, I doubt a lawsuit will proceed. I would hope not, though, because if you arer suing because they should have put a fence up, then you should have left when you saw that there wasn't a fence.

Also, Greg's words in no way were relevant to Antron's accident. Greg was relaying a terrible bump the pro stock cars are especially susceptible to whereas Antron's accident occured far earlier on the track due to his own car related issues.

Shaun wrote: Motor sports is an inherently dangerous, and safety is absolutely essential for motor sports survival in litigious industrialized countries. A whole round of engineering went into catch fencing, the mandatory use of electronically triggered ignition and fuel cutoffs was instituted, and the 1/4 mile became 1000' after Kalitta's fatal and DeJoria's could well have been fatal crashes at English town in 2008 and 2009. Nobody with ownership stake in Motorsports accepts fatalities as a "goes with the territory" risk. Safety Engineering must keep up or the NHRA or any Motorsport organization will eventually cease to exist. A partial list of safety changes in ther NHRA in the last couple of years: http://wapedia.mobi/en/National_Hot_Rod_Association There will be a lawsuit in this unfortunate instance, bulkhead disclaimers printed on the back of tickets get blown up in court all the time, and this case has a head start: "Pro Stock driver Greg Anderson, in his Summit Racing Pontiac, won his first-round match-up, then delivered a tirade about the safety of the track surface. “That last 400 feet, I was this close to crashing. I’ve never been so close in all my life to crashing,” Anderson told ESPN’s Gary Gerould. “It is impassable out there. It is complete insanity to be on that race track right now. I am scared to death we’re going to lose more cars — and maybe more people — today."" http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.com/node.php?id=2589

tuna55 wrote: I doubt a lawsuit will proceed. I would hope not, though, because if you arer suing because they should have put a fence up, then you should have left when you saw that there wasn't a fence.

While I agree wholeheartedly, that argument holds precisely ZERO water in court. At least these days.

tuna55 wrote: A very freak accident. The tire shake was so severe that it sheared off the wheel studs. That is reminiscent of the death of Eric Medlan a few years back when it shook so hard it split the tire and his head saw hundreds of Gs before he could shut it down. When 8000 HP goes wrong, it typically goes very wrong.

This is exactly the incident that I was thinking of, I do agree that motorsports are dangerous, and I too enjoy some of the danger, but incidents of this sort are becoming comon enough that they can't be called freak accidents any more. I'm sugesting that Top Fuel dragsters should be banned or any thing like that, but may be its time for a re-think of how these cars are built (above and beyond the recent construction rules changes)

In reply to Poopshovel: I applaude the operators of the track that you mentioned

HappyAndy wrote:

tuna55 wrote: A very freak accident. The tire shake was so severe that it sheared off the wheel studs. That is reminiscent of the death of Eric Medlan a few years back when it shook so hard it split the tire and his head saw hundreds of Gs before he could shut it down. When 8000 HP goes wrong, it typically goes very wrong.

This is exactly the incident that I was thinking of, I do agree that motorsports are dangerous, and I too enjoy some of the danger, but incidents of this sort are becoming comon enough that they can't be called freak accidents any more. I'm sugesting that Top Fuel dragsters should be banned or any thing like that, but may be its time for a re-think of how these cars are built (above and beyond the recent construction rules changes) In reply to Poopshovel: I applaude the operators of the track that you mentioned

The problem is the only way to legislate them safer is to drastically slow them down. Even a 6000 HP fueler is capable of shredding a tire that way if something goes drastically wrong. I'd hazard to say some of the Pro Mod cars might be capable of that level of destruction is the tire were to cut itself in half at the wrong time. Note that the has nothing to do with the drivers interaction with the car, and nothing to do with the cars interaction with any object other than the ground, the driver can literally be shaken to death. When that much HP is trying to spin the tire, it's amazing that it doesn't happen more often. A safer tire banded with double the wheel studs may help a bit.

Now that I think about it, a banded tire, with steel circumferential bands built into the tread (not the sidewall) may curb some of the tire shake tendencies...

hmm

DukeOfUndersteer wrote:

poopshovel wrote: I am proud of where I live, and feel like the folks around me are often subjected to some pretty unfair and unfounded stereotypes...until I go to the dirt track, and the race is held up for 20 minutes while the announcer says "Folks, for the 20th time, PLEASE get your children away from the fence and into the stands."

Dixie Speedway?

Yup.

tuna55 wrote: Now that I think about it, a banded tire, with steel circumferential bands built into the tread (not the sidewall) may curb some of the tire shake tendencies...

Of course, that would defeat the whole function of a top fuel drag slick - they're designed to grow in circumference as they spin faster.

In reply to stuart in mn:

And when the "banded" tire inevitably comes apart, the steel becomes ever more dangerous.

As a hobby Historian of Drag Racing, the sport is becoming a shell of what it was. if we would go back and count how many drivers and fans have been killed or suffered sever injuries we would have a number that would have people now calling for its demise. The sport has tried to react to safety when things have gone wrong. The cars are much safer now. But you can only design for things you know will go wrong. If you put a computer on it to come up with all the things that could go wrong with any race car, we would not want to drive it. Same with a street car. Racers race knowing the danger. Fans should know the danger. If vanyone feels no will ever get hurt in the pits or stands is kidding themselves. The track have to do what they can to insure your safety while giving you a chance to see something. If you get so much fence and barriers put up, then there is not much to see. Then they can stay home and watch on TV. But if it comes to that there will not be a race with out people filling the seats. It is a balancing act most Sanctioning bodies do a good job of. If we allow the OH MY God How Can This Ever Happen mentality to take over, pack up the haulers and say we had fun while it lasted!!

poopshovel wrote:

DukeOfUndersteer wrote:

poopshovel wrote: I am proud of where I live, and feel like the folks around me are often subjected to some pretty unfair and unfounded stereotypes...until I go to the dirt track, and the race is held up for 20 minutes while the announcer says "Folks, for the 20th time, PLEASE get your children away from the fence and into the stands."

Dixie Speedway?

Yup.

its awesome watching those good ol' boys in the water tanker trucks slicking down the track before qualifying, the have those old trucks completely wheel-locked drifting coming out of those turns...

bigwrench wrote: If you get so much fence and barriers put up, then there is not much to see. Then they can stay home and watch on TV. But if it comes to that there will not be a race with out people filling the seats. It is a balancing act most Sanctioning bodies do a good job of.

Having been spoiled by in 70's and 80's by "standard" fence and barrier design, I rarely attend racing events now. The rationale for current standards is understood, but spectators are much too far away from on-track action and visuals are way too obscured by the inevitable fencing. TV for me thanks!

That said, even when access was much more lenient, one had to be constantly vigilant about where one stood and what was happening on track. More than once I saw cars (or debris) go over fences into areas that I would frequently choose to spectate and/or take photos. More than once I have seen accident debris land in areas where no rational person could imagine - before it actually happened. In that respect nothing has really changed.

A few years ago, the IRL ran at Atlanta Motor Speedway and I attended a couple of events. The series had a history of inexperienced drivers getting involved in multiple incidents on very fast ovals and the event organizers restricted/refused seating in specific areas. Even the first 20-30 rows of seats were deemed off limits where tickets were sold. That said, after witnessing the speeds, the bothersome number of accidents and how much debris was generated, I decided I had seen my last IRL race at that track.

It was thrilling, but it had the feeling of bungee-jumping knowing the cords were starting to fray.

Can you imagine that at one time there was a low chain link fence between the cars and the burnout area at Indy to where I would get my hat blown off by the headers and be covered in rubber specks!!!! That is how much it has changed!!

We knew a fuel motor could kick out a rod or catch fire.Do not get me started about Pro Rally Spectating!!!!!

In reply to bigwrench:

Imagine? I know!

There was a time when Rd Atlanta (pre-Panoz) had spectator fencing even to the track level only thirty feet from the asphalt. This was before T11 (The Bridge) and right at the braking area, which was immediately after the speed traps. You had to whack through the kudzu to even reach that area, but it was worth it.

But did you not know where you were and to keep aware if a car had trouble and headed your way!!!!

In reply to bigwrench:

yeah, you don't generally have car parts flying at you... You have CARS!!!!!!!!! flying at you. :oP

In reply to bigwrench:

Oh, yes......

I was/am not the average spectator, hence my preference to limit attendance since current standards are at the level of lowest-common denominator and litigation avoidance.