Is this cheating?

http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/8979000/Ladies-tees?-Long-drive-champ-used-to-be-man&MSNHPHCP&GT1=39002

Ladies tees? Long-drive champ used to be manby James Achenbach, Golfweek.com

MESQUITE, Nev. - It has been a bizarre year in golf, highlighted by a player with a broken leg winning the U.S. Open. Hard to believe, but it was the only major championship of the year captured by an American.

At the recent RE/MAX World Long Drive Championship here at Mesquite Regional Park, the year grew even stranger. The new women's world champion in the event is a 55-year-old bartender who used to be a man.

Although golf is a sport largely without controversy, the reign of long-drive queen Lana Lawless, who lives in Palm Springs, Calif., is expected to be neither tranquil nor uneventful.

Women's long-drive champion Lana Lawless used to be a SWAT officer. She also used to be a man. (Courtesy of Banggolf / Special to FOXSports.com)

For starters, there is her startling honesty. "This is who I am. This is my life," she said firmly. "That other person, that 245-pound SWAT cop I used to be, he's gone. He's not coming back."

Lawless mostly was a curiosity until the night of Oct. 22, when she upset the competitor widely acclaimed as the longest hitter in women's golf — 21-year-old Phillis Meti of Auckland, New Zealand.

"I beat her because of the wind," conceded Lawless, whose longest drive into a 40-mph headwind traveled 254 yards — 4 yards longer than Meti's best. "She hits it higher than I do, and that wind just knocked her ball out of the sky. If it had been downwind, she would have hit it 500 yards (Meti bombed a 349-yard drive in a qualifying round)."

The image of a policeman-turned-woman does not sit easily with many participants in a sport driven by power, muscle and speed.

"I am shocked more women are not complaining about this," three-time world champion Sean "The Beast" Fister said. "It's not an apples-to- apples deal. Men and women are different."

Added former women's world champion Lee Brandon: "In 2005, the USGA approved transgender involvement in competition, so I don't see how we can dispute this. However, if a woman has the knees, hands and feet of a man, she has genetic real estate that is more gifted."

Lawless had her supporters, including 2007 men's champ Mike Dobbyn, who observed, "When I watch her, I don't see any advantage. She hits it like an LDA (Long Drivers of America) woman."

The rules governing transgender golf competition are precise and numerous. For Lawless, they included mandatory doctor reports, lab results within normal female limits and onsite testing.

"I am a woman," insisted Lawless, who adopted her new name from classic-movie star Lana Turner but declines to discuss her previous name. "I've lost muscle mass. I don't have big guns (biceps). They give you a drug that stops you from producing testosterone. Your muscles atrophy. In about seven months, I went from 245 pounds to 175 pounds. I've gained back a little bit, but I feel like I don't have any power.

"Sure, I used to be a man. For 18 years, I was a cop for the city of Rialto, one of the most violent cities in Southern California. I worked the gang unit. I had a very tough and mean exterior. People didn't want to mess with me.

Is it cheating? Yes. Yes it is.

He has a Y chromosome. He is still a man. They just gave him all sorts of drugs to turn him into a Bob Costas. He should hit off the mens tee - like the other men.

New champion....

Yeah, come on. The sky is blue. No matter how much you argue it's always going to be blue even if you cut it's wang off.

Yes, its cheating.

On a semi related topic, it reminds me of the "Worlds first pregnant man" bit the press was pushing. No, its just another pregnant woman. It makes no difference that most men now find her extremely unattractive.

If a man can't hit it to the women's tee, he's supposed to hang it out of his zipper for the next shot. So what if he has nothing to hang?

confuZion3 wrote: Is it cheating? Yes. Yes it is. He has a Y chromosome. He is still a man. They just gave him all sorts of drugs to turn him into a Bob Costas. He should hit off the mens tee - like the other men.

What if she was intersexed to begin, and only lived as a man because she was raised that way? Just because one has an external appearance of a male does not necessarily mean she is internally a male. I mean, what if her internal gonads did not match her externally?
I understand that on the outside one may appear to be one way, but that may not represent physiologically what is present on the inside.

But damn, 245 lbs.? Jeeeez!

-Les

Oh yeah, let the flaming begin............................

BTW, I think the actual number of the United States' population that is intersexed is .7%. I could be wrong on the number as I am drawing from memory, but I remember it being higher than what thought.

-Les

bludroptop wrote: New champion....

i've done worse....

Pat,

I have too, but I wasn't gonna be the fist.......I mean first to admit it.

-Les

So a 245 lb guy on the SWAT team gets a sex change and becomes a lady golfer? Only in California...

The rules governing transgender golf competition are precise and numerous. For Lawless, they included mandatory doctor reports, lab results within normal female limits and onsite testing.

I'll buy it, since I actually have a very good friend who turned out to be transgender. After he went on hormone treatment to become she, I asked her about a few of the less personal aspects. Her muscle composition changed dramatically. She lost a significant amount of muscle mass.

He used to be able to out power lift me (yes, he played football when he was younger, and later continued to do weight training), now I'd be surprised if she could do a pull-up.

The only mechanical advantage I could see for this, is the difference in bone structure in the shoulders and hips, and maybe if she is taller (I suspect the top female competitors are pretty tall). I don't know if that would be a benefit or handicap though.

In either case, I would expect that if my friend wanted to do sports now, she'd compete in women's leagues. Her biggest advantage would be having been raised as a guy who appreciates sports and competition.

Except now she's a 175lb female golfer. The hormone drugs she takes reduces the testosterone and increases the estrogen, causing her big, man-like muscles to atrophy. At this point she is just a "big" girl who used to have a "wang"

fastasleep wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: Is it cheating? Yes. Yes it is. He has a Y chromosome. He is still a man. They just gave him all sorts of drugs to turn him into a Bob Costas. He should hit off the mens tee - like the other men.

What if she was intersexed to begin, and only lived as a man because she was raised that way? Just because one has an external appearance of a male does not necessarily mean she is internally a male. I mean, what if her internal gonads did not match her externally? I understand that on the outside one may appear to be one way, but that may not represent physiologically what is present on the inside. But damn, 245 lbs.? Jeeeez! -Les

He was not intersexed. But if you want to go THAT route . . .

What if he was a guy in a bar having a drink. The bar tender comes up to him and says "what's your story?". He says, "I was born an orphan girl. When I was 19, I had a one night stand with a man who I never saw again and I never caught his name. He impregnated me. After my daughter was born, she was taken to an orphanage. The doctors found out that my female parts were damaged, but that I had fully-functioning male parts, so they gave me the surgery. I lived my life trying to find my daugher, but to no avail. And here I am today."

The bar tender says, "come with me". They go to a time machine in the back of the bar and go back 20 years (to when the man was a woman and when she was 19). The bar tender says, "I have to go run some errands. Be back here in two hours." The man finds a woman and has a one night stand. He leaves, finds the bar tender, and heads back to the present. When they get back to the bar, the bar tender tells him that he is the same guy, but in his future. Additionall, the woman he has a one-night-stand with is himself 20 years ago, and the daughter he had before the sex change was him as a baby. Every character is the same person.

In that case, she can hit from whatever tee she would like. She's a time worm.

confuZion3 wrote:

fastasleep wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: Is it cheating? Yes. Yes it is. He has a Y chromosome. He is still a man. They just gave him all sorts of drugs to turn him into a Bob Costas. He should hit off the mens tee - like the other men.

What if she was intersexed to begin, and only lived as a man because she was raised that way? Just because one has an external appearance of a male does not necessarily mean she is internally a male. I mean, what if her internal gonads did not match her externally? I understand that on the outside one may appear to be one way, but that may not represent physiologically what is present on the inside. But damn, 245 lbs.? Jeeeez! -Les

He was not intersexed. But if you want to go THAT route . . . What if he was a guy in a bar having a drink. The bar tender comes up to him and says "what's your story?". He says, "I was born an orphan girl. When I was 19, I had a one night stand with a man who I never saw again and I never caught his name. He impregnated me. After my daughter was born, she was taken to an orphanage. The doctors found out that my female parts were damaged, but that I had fully-functioning male parts, so they gave me the surgery. I lived my life trying to find my daugher, but to no avail. And here I am today." The bar tender says, "come with me". They go to a time machine in the back of the bar and go back 20 years (to when the man was a woman and when she was 19). The bar tender says, "I have to go run some errands. Be back here in two hours." The man finds a woman and has a one night stand. He leaves, finds the bar tender, and heads back to the present. When they get back to the bar, the bar tender tells him that he is the same guy, but in his future. Additionall, the woman he has a one-night-stand with is himself 20 years ago, and the daughter he had before the sex change was him as a baby. Every character is the same person. In that case, she can hit from whatever tee she would like. She's a time worm.

OW!!!! My head now hurts.

The rules governing transgender golf competition are precise and numerous. For Lawless, they included mandatory doctor reports, lab results within normal female limits and onsite testing.

'nuff said. No rules broken = No cheating. That being said, it would be cool for the former champ to come back, beat her ass fair and square, and unzip her pants to reveal a pseudo-phallus while exclaiming "YEAH, SUCK ON THAT, B*TCH!"

confuZion3 wrote:

fastasleep wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: Is it cheating? Yes. Yes it is. He has a Y chromosome. He is still a man. They just gave him all sorts of drugs to turn him into a Bob Costas. He should hit off the mens tee - like the other men.

What if she was intersexed to begin, and only lived as a man because she was raised that way? Just because one has an external appearance of a male does not necessarily mean she is internally a male. I mean, what if her internal gonads did not match her externally? I understand that on the outside one may appear to be one way, but that may not represent physiologically what is present on the inside. But damn, 245 lbs.? Jeeeez! -Les

He was not intersexed. But if you want to go THAT route . . . What if he was a guy in a bar having a drink. The bar tender comes up to him and says "what's your story?". He says, "I was born an orphan girl. When I was 19, I had a one night stand with a man who I never saw again and I never caught his name. He impregnated me. After my daughter was born, she was taken to an orphanage. The doctors found out that my female parts were damaged, but that I had fully-functioning male parts, so they gave me the surgery. I lived my life trying to find my daugher, but to no avail. And here I am today." The bar tender says, "come with me". They go to a time machine in the back of the bar and go back 20 years (to when the man was a woman and when she was 19). The bar tender says, "I have to go run some errands. Be back here in two hours." The man finds a woman and has a one night stand. He leaves, finds the bar tender, and heads back to the present. When they get back to the bar, the bar tender tells him that he is the same guy, but in his future. Additionall, the woman he has a one-night-stand with is himself 20 years ago, and the daughter he had before the sex change was him as a baby. Every character is the same person. In that case, she can hit from whatever tee she would like. She's a time worm.

Thank you for breaking my brain.

should be a separate category for trans gender players

confuZion3 wrote:

fastasleep wrote:

confuZion3 wrote: Is it cheating? Yes. Yes it is. He has a Y chromosome. He is still a man. They just gave him all sorts of drugs to turn him into a Bob Costas. He should hit off the mens tee - like the other men.

What if she was intersexed to begin, and only lived as a man because she was raised that way? Just because one has an external appearance of a male does not necessarily mean she is internally a male. I mean, what if her internal gonads did not match her externally? I understand that on the outside one may appear to be one way, but that may not represent physiologically what is present on the inside. But damn, 245 lbs.? Jeeeez! -Les

He was not intersexed. But if you want to go THAT route . . . What if he was a guy in a bar having a drink. The bar tender comes up to him and says "what's your story?". He says, "I was born an orphan girl. When I was 19, I had a one night stand with a man who I never saw again and I never caught his name. He impregnated me. After my daughter was born, she was taken to an orphanage. The doctors found out that my female parts were damaged, but that I had fully-functioning male parts, so they gave me the surgery. I lived my life trying to find my daugher, but to no avail. And here I am today." The bar tender says, "come with me". They go to a time machine in the back of the bar and go back 20 years (to when the man was a woman and when she was 19). The bar tender says, "I have to go run some errands. Be back here in two hours." The man finds a woman and has a one night stand. He leaves, finds the bar tender, and heads back to the present. When they get back to the bar, the bar tender tells him that he is the same guy, but in his future. Additionall, the woman he has a one-night-stand with is himself 20 years ago, and the daughter he had before the sex change was him as a baby. Every character is the same person. In that case, she can hit from whatever tee she would like. She's a time worm.

That cannot happen because time is absolute. Now, back to the story........................look, she is doing all she can do to satisfy the rules; why don't we just leave her the "F" alone? People are different, man. That is just the way it is.
BTW, is it she whom says she is a female? Obviously. Do we say a person is a specific gender based on how we identify them, or by the way these subjects identify themselves? Look, if Richard Simmons told me tomorrow that he was a female, I would believe her (?). To me what matters isn't between one's legs, it is how one identifies their own gender.

-Les

fastasleep wrote: That cannot happen because time is absolute.

Not according to the Talking Heads. Time isn't absolute. Time isn't holding up. Same as it ever was.

Grtechguy wrote: should be a separate category for trans gender players

This is golf, not the SCCA. We don't need a separate class for every conceivable parts swap!

More reason to participate in nondiscriminatory sporting events. If there aren't separate categories for the sexes, there's no question.

Salanis wrote: This is golf, not the SCCA. We don't need a separate class for every conceivable parts swap!

The phrase "Stick shift" comes to mind ...

Sorry

fastasleep, if I underwent surgery to have my arms turned into legs, a pig snout attached to my face, and hair glued to half my body, would it make me a manbearpig? No. It would make me an idiot, yes, but I'd just be a guy who had a bunch of plastic surgery done to him who calls himself the single greatest threat to all of humanity.

confuZion3 wrote: fastasleep, if I underwent surgery to have my arms turned into legs, a pig snout attached to my face, and hair glued to half my body, would it make me a manbearpig? No. It would make me an idiot, yes, but I'd just be a guy who had a bunch of plastic surgery done to him who calls himself the single greatest threat to all of humanity.

I can't tell how sarcastic or not you're being?

Except it's not as involved as you think to change gender. Take a couple of pills every day, buy a new wardrobe, go see a hair stylist instead of a barber.

I think the big difference is that sex and gender are not necessarily the same thing. Sex is biologically set by what kind of gonads you have (and I wouldn't even say chromosomes, because you can end up with gonads different than what your genes normally code for). Gender is the social aspect. It's whether you'd call someone "sir" or "ma'am".

That said, if you're looking for donations for the surgery you're considering, I'd be happy to donate, as long as I know my donation will go to the advertised purpose.