Is this really America

Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: Is it really cool or are you being condescending? So if it really is as simple as left or right wing, you are saying it is left wing? Help me out here.

Fascism is a leftist ideology. I though I had already made that clear and my assertions were backed up by subsequent other posters?

I was totally being condescending. Also again with the top portion of this post.

Well then. You are mean.

Otto Maddox wrote: Benito Mussolini. Fascism: Dctrine and Institutions. (Rome, Italy: Ardita Publishers, 1935) p. 26. Quote from the Doctrine of Fascism: "We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right,' a fascist century."

To the right of communism as I already pointed out. Try to keep up.

Again, being condescending.

Otto Maddox wrote: Well then. You are mean.

And you are ignorant. Willfully so.

Trying to educate myself here -

fascism(fas|cism)

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices:

The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43); the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader , and a strong demagogic approach

I'll keep it simple since you're having such a hard time.

Left = more government Right = less

The extreme left is pure communism. The extreme right is pure anarchy.

Fascism and nazism are to the left of the spectrum just not as left as communism.

Before Hitler declared war on Russia the left was all up his ass. Then when he turned on their buddies he was all of a sudden a right wing tyrant.

But when you sit as far left as socialists and people like you do I can see how something slightly to the right is right wing despite it being well left of center.

Now your sources and probably most of what you consider your education is greatly biased and intellectually dishonest.

Edit to remind people the nazis were socialists. Its actually a part of the party's name. And that the left is about the collective ( be it every one of a certain chosen group) while the right is about the individual. Left is more control right is more freedom.

In reply to ThePhranc:

I'm done. Take it up with the people at the dictionary.

In reply to Otto Maddox:

Its ok that you're done I don't blame you. I'd take my ball and run off too if my entire notion of right and left was based on some words and having it destroyed by some one who used real world deeds to define it as left.

I can't stop you from being intellectually lazy I can only show you where are wrong. Again you are ignorant. Willfully so.

Participants in this thread should probably mellow out a touch. Discuss and disagree all you like, lay off the condescension and chest puffing please.

If you are upside down left is right and right is left. Just in case of disorientation... keep an eye on the symptoms.

@ ThePhranc: If you stick to your interpretation of far right as little to no government involvement and far left as total government control than your interpretation is correct. The problem is that the current and recent right has adopted governing of morals through religious leanings and police state anti terrorism ideals. The left may legislate every tiny aspect of our daily life for the greater good, but the right is legislating the more visible items and is therefore seen as the oppressors.

In reply to MrJoshua:

I really don't think this is accurate/reality. It's a perception that the left has because of a left leaning media, but I see little if any reality in it.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: If you are upside down left is right and right is left. Just in case of disorientation... keep an eye on the symptoms.

If that is correct, then fascism isn't left or right, it's a combination of both, which is kind of what wikipedia has to say about it. One thing I know, is I don't want a facist government, left or right.

This is what I was originally picturing.

And my thoughts were that is better to be on the top half of the circle rather than the bottom half.

MrJoshua wrote: @ ThePhranc: If you stick to your interpretation of far right as little to no government involvement and far left as total government control than your interpretation is correct. The problem is that the current and recent right has adopted governing of morals through religious leanings and police state anti terrorism ideals. The left may legislate every tiny aspect of our daily life for the greater good, but the right is legislating the more visible items and is therefore seen as the oppressors.

Actually the religious "right" isn't very right wing.

This might help.

http://themadpiper.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/political-spectrum.jpg?w=470&h=267

Saying that Mussolini and his version of 'right wing' politic'n is even remotely similar to American conservatives whose general aim is to conserve classic liberalism is quite a stretch.

MrJoshua wrote: @ ThePhranc: If you stick to your interpretation of far right as little to no government involvement and far left as total government control than your interpretation is correct. The problem is that the current and recent right has adopted governing of morals through religious leanings and police state anti terrorism ideals. The left may legislate every tiny aspect of our daily life for the greater good, but the right is legislating the more visible items and is therefore seen as the oppressors.

This thread has devolved into a string a interpretations. Without commomly acknowledged defintions for the various "isms", we end up with little more than opinions. Those opinions may well be based on morsels of historical fact but conclusions are skewed by personal baises.

For example, GPS posted an interesting hotlink on identifying fascism and its' characteristics. Using it, one can conclude we're at least half-way on the road to a fascist state and both of our political parties are carriers of the disease.

That chart could also be considered more "definitive" if the author has credentials generally accepted (by all) as one with complete objectivity.

In reply to ronholm:

Agreed. I was trying to differentiate between normal American conservatives and extremism. That is where the train went off the tracks.

ThePhranc wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: @ ThePhranc: If you stick to your interpretation of far right as little to no government involvement and far left as total government control than your interpretation is correct. The problem is that the current and recent right has adopted governing of morals through religious leanings and police state anti terrorism ideals. The left may legislate every tiny aspect of our daily life for the greater good, but the right is legislating the more visible items and is therefore seen as the oppressors.

Actually the religious "right" isn't very right wing. This might help. http://themadpiper.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/political-spectrum.jpg?w=470&h=267

It isn't as simple as that in my mind. IMHO you can't break political views into a one axis graph. It needs to be a two axis graph on axis based on economic issues and the other based on social issues.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: If you are upside down left is right and right is left. Just in case of disorientation... keep an eye on the symptoms.

Powerful and continueing Nationalism: GM and the Banks: check

Disdain for human rights: Guantanamo and arresting citizens without trial on suspecion of terrrorism: check

Supremacy of the Military: not yet.. no check

Rampent Sexism: nope.. no check

Controlled Mass Media: From both sides.. no check

Obcession with National Seciurity: Been to the airport recently? Check

Religion and government intertwined: working on it.. no check

Coprorate Power is protected: Check

Labor power is suppressed: check

Disdain for intellectuals and the arts: Check

Obcession with Crime and punishment: Check

Rampent Cronyism and corruption: almost.. half check

Fraudulent Elections: GW Bush.. Check

oldsaw wrote: That chart could also be considered more "definitive" if the author has credentials generally accepted (by all) as one with complete objectivity.

True enough - random images from the interweebs are not definitive without some credible source. Google tells me that the poster image I linked is an almost verbatim copy of the 14 signs of Facism according to an article Fascism Anyone? and later a book by the same author.

I am not familiar with the author but his line of work, references and written observances do loan credibility and seem to describe common attributes of recent, well known facist governments.

Way to suck the fun out of fly-by trolling oldsaw.

In reply to mad_machine:

You and I have a very different view of this country.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I wonder how long it will be before protesters are labeled terrorists.

I would be surprised if they weren't already.

In reply to e_pie:

If you read the whole thread you would know that this has already been verified.

And people are just now getting concerned?