In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :
No worries. I replied out of a general sense that my remark might be misconstrued, not specifically in response to your post or anyone else's.
And I agree with you. In the event of general calamity, I do not think that rural folk will respond the least bit favorably to an "invasion" of city folk onto their land.
j_tso said:Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Best advice I can tell people if they are truly trying to prepare for this is to look at what people needed/wanted/used 200 years and do that.
That's why I'm surprised this thread is 3 pages and no one has mentioned a stable of horses.
Even if instead of storing fuel I can refine my own, what am I going to do about tires? The roads are going to deteriorate quickly.
Seems like a few horses is A LOT of food and care to add to the situation, if you're legitimately trying to figure out how to survive.
This for me is pretty easy.
1. Parts for my mountain bike and gravel bike. This will be my transportation. Need to hoard some tire sealant.
2. Cloths, blankets, and general camping supplies. I have a good setup overall. I would get/find a better water filtration setup. Their are lakes close to get water from.
3. As many seeds as possible for growing crops.
4. Need to figure out a source protein.
RevRico said:In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
You'd be the one to ask. In a situation like this, what would be the best farm animal in terms of food requirements vs working ability?
Ox, mule, donkey? Something that can pull a plow, but is going to want a people sized portion of food?
Or
Goats/sheep/other smaller critters that maybe can't plow an acre but can keep up on maintenance without needing extra everything?
I feel like more .22 and shotgun rounds would be good. The .22 is for all the squirrels and other small game to pop, without attracting too much attention. My Henry lever action doesn't care if it's short, long, subsonic, etc. Shotgun ammo is easy to get and multipurpose. Other than that, I've got a solid camping setup, a map book for Oregon, and a 4x4 truck if I have to leave town. Day one would be a good time to finally install my ham radio in the truck too. Communication is really important.
Where I'm at I have: a reliable fresh water source with fish and waterfowl, neighbor's cattle to barter for, a dozen operational vehicles with gas tanks kept at least 1/2 full, plenty of firearms and ammunition for them, and way more medical supplies than I'd hope to have a need for. I'll probably run out of toilet paper after a couple weeks, but I have learned other ways. My main concern would be helping out elderly neighbors - who are still skilled and resourceful, but physically limited.
...and I'd want either a bulldozer or backhoe/loader. A "Case 580 Super M" would do nicely. I know where I can get one if I'm quick. There's a lot you can do if you have a good piece of heavy equipment.
I remember seeing thousands of people in the New Orleans area after hurricane Katrina that either could not or would not help themselves and a local government that completely failed. Depending on the type of 'End of the World', I expect that the dense urban areas will be clustered with helpless, hopeless people. I don't want to be anywhere near a place like that.
Oh... and if it's a real END OF THE WORLD end of the world, I'm fine with moving on and leaving this world post haste. Me and God have plans.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:RevRico said:In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
You'd be the one to ask. In a situation like this, what would be the best farm animal in terms of food requirements vs working ability?
Ox, mule, donkey? Something that can pull a plow, but is going to want a people sized portion of food?
Or
Goats/sheep/other smaller critters that maybe can't plow an acre but can keep up on maintenance without needing extra everything?
Siberian Huskies can pull a lot for the amount of food that they eat. The military has actually studied their metabolism.
Back to the dog cart idea. Alaskan Malamutes could pull a plough.
Potatoes, tires and dry goods.
The tires make excellent stackable places to grow potatoes. Easy to separate, rather than dig.
I've already got guns, ammo, and a bug out backpack. Tent, meager food, flint and steel, hatchet, saw, and a water purifier.
Funny, in my youth, my Dad always reckoned 22 shells would be the new currency. (agreeing with thatsnowinnebago).
Ammo. If your capable of growing food and hunting your ahead of the curve and will need a way to defend it in a true government collapse scenario. In a perfect world with enough notice we would load our supplies in the crv and weave south to family property in West Virginia. It has a well and several springs in the area, plenty of wildlife and it's been empty since my grandmother passed in 97
bmw88rider said:4. Need to figure out a source protein.
I was thinking the thing to do would be catch as many rabbits as possible. Once they start doing there thing you would have a pretty reliable source of protein, and they are small enough that you butcher one or two and eat it all right away. Meat chickens would be the same deal, but im guessing the rabbits would multiply faster. I dont see much sense in feeding and butchering something big like cattle when 90% of the meat would spoil before you can get it ate. Of course this is only true if you are on your own. Most likely you wouldn't be, there would be some sort of community develop. In every part of the world, since the beginning of man, we have always formed tribes, there is no reason why this would be any different.
j_tso said:
That's why I'm surprised this thread is 3 pages and no one has mentioned a stable of horses.
This is a website full of car guys. I'm pretty sure we would kill horses really fast. Especially an entire stable full of them.
"Where the heck does the anti-freeze go??"
Plywood. I'm hoarding plywood.
gearheadmb said:bmw88rider said:4. Need to figure out a source protein.
I was thinking the thing to do would be catch as many rabbits as possible. Once they start doing there thing you would have a pretty reliable source of protein, and they are small enough that you butcher one or two and eat it all right away. Meat chickens would be the same deal, but im guessing the rabbits would multiply faster. I dont see much sense in feeding and butchering something big like cattle when 90% of the meat would spoil before you can get it ate. Of course this is only true if you are on your own. Most likely you wouldn't be, there would be some sort of community develop. In every part of the world, since the beginning of man, we have always formed tribes, there is no reason why this would be any different.
Not shooting holes in your idea, but it reminded me of a funny, true story I heard recently:
Younger brother who has a reputation of not being the brightest goes a bit crazy, digging a shelter under his living room convinced the fit is going to hit the shan. He comes to the same conclusion about food and buys rabbits and starts breeding them. Older brother gets wind of younger brother's plan, and is a real smart ass. Goes for a visit, and tauntingly tells younger he'll give him $10,000 to kill and eat a rabbit in front of him. Tears ensue. He just couldn't do it.
Here's a legitimate question:
If it's the end of the world, other than force, what makes something "your land?" The government is gone, and they're the one that enforces zoning and property.
Let's take Toyman's example of his island. What if his family shows up there and finds that 100 well armed and motivated people have moved in? Are you going to try to worth together to cohabitate, or are you going to start a battle for the land and possibly lose?
This especially applies if you're more than an hour away from and/or seldom visit any bug out location you're choosing. You might be on good terms with the neighbors out that way *right now* but their plans might include taking over the land you're planning to use and keeping people from out of town away.
My parents have about a hundred empty acres up in Vermont near a lake and the Connecticut river. It's almost 900 miles away from where I live with my family, and surrounded by people who don't know me very well at all. It's off of my list as an option for the most part.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Plywood. I'm hoarding plywood.
YOU MUST BE RICH.
Mongols, if they'll have me.
In reply to Brett_Murphy :
There are now 3 occupied houses on our place and you wouldn't know it existed except for a dirt road leading into the woods and a couple of mail boxes. Our family has farmed it since the mid 1700s and we are related to a large portion of the island. There is no doubt that the residents would pull together and form a community since they already are one. Extras will be welcome as long as they are willing to help out. I have several friends who have said that is where they are headed.
I don't foresee the country reverting to savagery but I could definitely see some desperate people doing desperate things. Particularly in the cities if all services collapse.
As a family we are firm believers in helping those that are willing to help themselves. Anyone willing to pitch in will be welcome. Farming without machinery is labor intensive and families with 12 kids are a thing of the past. There are about 40 people affiliated with the farm. Probably 25 live close enough to consider it a fall back position. Half of those are over 50 and several are under 10.. You can't manually farm 200 acres with 10-20 people. In a agrarian society, the general rule looks to be 4 people to the acre.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:Plywood. I'm hoarding plywood.
Really not a terrible idea. Any construction materials would be good.
Of course I'm involuntarily hoarding it thru years of cleaning up jobsites though too lol
When C19 initially got stupid, I stocked up on canned food, baby wipes (I have a small kid so I legitimately needed wipes) and ammo. I also made sure my gas tanks and cans were full as much as reasonably possible, as we have some land with a good lake but it's about 5 hours from home.
SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:j_tso said:
That's why I'm surprised this thread is 3 pages and no one has mentioned a stable of horses.This is a website full of car guys. I'm pretty sure we would kill horses really fast. Especially an entire stable full of them.
"Where the heck does the anti-freeze go??"
You mean you don't check the manure to see if it's running rich?
j_tso said:SVreX (Forum Supporter) said:j_tso said:
That's why I'm surprised this thread is 3 pages and no one has mentioned a stable of horses.This is a website full of car guys. I'm pretty sure we would kill horses really fast. Especially an entire stable full of them.
"Where the heck does the anti-freeze go??"
You mean you don't check the manure to see if it's running rich?
My uncle was a cattleman and a vet. In his book, a horse was the most useless animal on a farm. They stand around consuming resources and return nothing but piles of crap.
A lot of folks are saying what they would hoard if things go bad. That's funny to me. If I don't have it already, I'm not going to get any of it when all of a sudden everyone else wants the same thing.
For a week or two (tornadoes, bad winter storms, maybe the New Madrid Fault decides it's time to let loose again), the goals are just riding it out until conditions stabilize. In that case, Fuel and canned goods are handy to have on hand.
If it's a more permanent thing...that's a different story and I don't think hoarding supplies will be as important as knowing what you're good at and being ready to put that to use cooperatively.
I live on a few acres which is nice but the real concerns if things got very bad would be water and food. I wish I had a well, but I don't and I'm probably not going to spend $10K (or whatever it costs) to have a well drilled just in case. There's a creek full of farm runoff that touches our property at one spot. We could boil water to survive. I'd start collecting rainwater right away, too. I'd like to have a sustainable way to make potable water from a mud puddle. I think a plan for purifying water is important. I would like to act on this.
I learned of a Birkey filtration system in the past. I need to re-familiarize myself with it. I don't think it's completely apocalypse-proof...but it would be a good thing to have for a short- to mid-term fiasco.
I haven't put together a plan for food, but I do feel it would be smart to have a couple weeks worth of "it'll keep me alive" stuff like beans, rice, etc.
If I had to feed myself long term...it would be pretty bleak, at least to start. My wife would probably grow some vegetables if the catastrophe happened at a convenient time of year. But we don't have canning jars, or any actual experience canning or "putting up" food. I could shoot squirrels and deer and stuff (I don't have a deer rifle, actually...maybe that's something to think about) but I'm not a hunter. If I was hungry, I'm sure I could survive, though. It's more likely we'd try to network with foodies who need some skill we have. In an apocalypse, they'd call me MacGuyver, no doubt.
We have plenty of leaves for toilet paper, I guess.
My wife has a horse and a mule. Those would be such a huge liability in a SHTF situation because they're modern horses that need chiropractic and supplements and all that. I'd turn them loose when she wasn't looking if I thought they'd run away...but they wouldn't. Seriously...they'd just eat grass and drink creek water and be of zero use other than maybe riding around to network with the neighbors. NOBODY should go out and get a horse for a cataclysm. As a non horse person living with horses, I am in a very good position to tell you this is near the top of the list of bad ideas.
I can spend all the time I want preparing for the wrong type of apocalypse. Might as well plan for realistic ones like when the electric and water shut down for a week.
And yeah...I have guns and would carry one or 5 around and count all my ammo and stash it in secret spots and stuff...but that's just TV and Movie fantasy. If I had to actually use a firearm (or any type of violence) to defend my family and/or property...life would become much different and I don't want to plan for that, realistically.
I used to really like those Brach's candies that were like a cube of white taffy with colored jellies floating in it, but you can't get them anymore.
lotusseven7 (Forum Supporter) said:Very few mentions of medications. As society ages and becomes more and more dependent on "BIG PHARMA" and health insurance companies, most only have one months worth of their daily medications on hand. Whether it's diabetes, heart, cancer or whatever other ailment, after a few weeks the meds will run out and a whole new reality will arise.
If it all really goes to E36 M3, with no hope of returning to normal, I hope I'm the first one killed when society goes full Mad Max. I know what it feels like to nearly die from unregulated diabetes. No. Never again.
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