NickD
NickD MegaDork
3/19/21 6:29 a.m.

So, I got together with my friends last night to watch the release of the Snyder Cut of Justice League. For those not aware of the backstory, Zack Snyder shot the entire film, then his daughter passed away and he had to step back from the film, so Warner Brothers brought in Joss Whedon to finish it up. Joss Whedon extensively reshot segments and the film that came to theaters was not good at all. It was tonally jarring where it bounced back and forth between the two writing styles (Snyder was more serious, Whedon was more jokey), they tried to cram in origins for 3 new heroes and a villain plus a plot for the film in 2 hours which resulted in a very rushed film with lots of hurried exposition, a vague plot and some very rough CGI. Since that film came out, Zack Snyder has insisted that all the footage was there for his vision of the film, and that his vision was much better. After years of fans demanding to see it, Warner Brothers finally caved and released the Snyder Cut of the film, which dumps all the Whedon footage and doubles the original movie's length from 2 hours to 4 hours.

I'll admit to being skeptical. Zack Snyder is a so-so filmmaker who can be a bit too reliant on the same handful of tricks. Also, I've seen enough of those Director's Cut and Extended Cuts of films where they add 45 minutes in length but it's all just pointless futzing about in the middle. So, I did not expect this new version to fundamentally change a movie. Going into it, I said to my friends "I don't think this will do anymore than elevate a bad movie to an acceptable movie."

So, did it? Honestly, I came away relatively impressed. Right from the very beginning, it's a completely different film. For starters, it gets a bump to R-rated, with the F-word being thrown around a handful of times, and the fights having a bit more violence and weight to them. It opens entirely differently. Even the familiar bits from the original show up in a completely different order. It's tone and storytelling are much more cohesive, thanks to being the work of only one person now. The exposition and back story feels much less rushed and much better developed. I remember watching the original and there was a jarring scene where Aquaman goes to Atlantis, meets some woman who I had no clue who she was, she tells him he should be king and then Steppenwolf attacks, all in the span of about two minutes. That all plays out over a much longer time span, which doesn't leave your head spinning at the chain of events that just happened before you could process them. We get to see existing characters from the theatrical version get more fleshed. Cyborg, in particular, benefits from this. Same with Steppenwolf, who in the original just made vague references to what he was doing and why, but now we actually get told the reasons and logic. Aquaman feels less like a Dollar Store knockoff of Thor in Thor: Ragnarok. I won't spoil it, but a few new important characters show up that really surprised my friends and I. The one really blew our minds. The overhaul continues with a soundtrack that is almost entirely changed and some much improved visuals. The villian Steppenwolf looked like he was made out of clay in the original version and not very imposing, but Snyder's Steppenwolf wears a shiny metal suit of armor that is constantly changing and shifting. Steppenwolf's minions, the parademons, look less like rough stand-in CGI work and feel more complete. Near the end of the film there is a sequence with Flash that is visually stunning.

Is it perfect? No. It's still a hefty four hours. That's a lot of movie to sit through. Granted, it rarely drags, as it always seems to be moving forward. Watching four hours of this felt like much less of a chore than the original 2 hour film I trudge through in the theaters. A couple characters get left by the wayside with not much development. Wonder Woman probably suffers the most, because while she pulls most of the weight in fight scenes, outside of the fights she's just kind of hanging around at Bruce Wayne's place. Part of this is probably because Wonder Woman was the film preceding Justice League, so Snyder felt she didn't need the spotlight on her. It takes a few deep dives into comic book lore, so don't be surprised if you need to pull out your phone and google a few terms here and there. Zack Snyder tends to fall back on the same couple of tricks, one of which is excessive slow-motion sequences (Although they do make sense with the Flash, as its the best way to demonstrate how fast he is).

In the end I'd say it takes a terrible film and keeps it from being consigned to the dustbin of history. With all said and done, I'd probably give it a solid 7.5/10, if I was pressed to give it a ranking. If you have the time, it's definitely worth a viewing. One of the final scenes of the movie hints at what Snyder was building towards, and I'd honestly like to see that become a reality because it has some potential. Maybe if this does well enough on HBO Max, Warner Brothers will consider giving him the keys again.

NickD
NickD MegaDork
3/19/21 6:50 a.m.

Oh, also, screw Warner Brothers. After Justice League released in the theaters and was panned by fans and critics, Zack Snyder insisted that his vision for the film was much different and that all the material was there to re-release it as he had planned it. Warner Brothers for years insisted that that wasn't true, that there wasn't a bunch of extra material lying around. And then, in the midst of HBO Max's weak launch and Warner Brothers laying people off, they go "Oh, the Snyder Cut actually is real."

Katie Suddard
Katie Suddard Advertising Coordinator
3/19/21 9:54 a.m.

TBH an interesting review to read. I've always loved DC's animated movies, but found the live action to fall short. Aquaman and Justice League really cemented that for me (don't get me wrong, Jason Momoa is some FINE eye-candy, but even so the movies were hard to watch). Throw in the fact that Joss Whedon is usually a great storyteller (Buffy will forever be a fave), and I was pretty doubtful Snyder cut would be anything special. 

 

I might have to convince the BF (not into comic book stuff at all) to hunker down with me to watch it this weekend. 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/19/21 10:03 a.m.

I think I'm just really tired of Zack Snyder's movie making style.

Also, even in other movies that didn't suffer from director changes, the DC movies just never seem to figure out what tone they are trying to hit.

 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
3/19/21 10:44 a.m.

If it's not a spoiler, tell me, is the villain born to be wild?

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
3/19/21 11:11 a.m.

The only DC movies worth watching are Batman, and only about half of them. Bale and Keaton, good.  The rest were adequate to horrible.

George Reeves did a decent Superman, and its been downhill since then. 

Green Lantern was some of the worst writing I've ever seen, ruining a perfectly good story.  Too much origin, not enough story.

I've watched bits and pieces of the others, but they really don't hold my interest.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/19/21 11:54 a.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

Green Lantern was some of the worst writing I've ever seen, ruining a perfectly good story.  Too much origin, not enough story.

Have you seen the Marvel Deadpool movies?  There's a relevant crazy credit at the end of Deadpool 2 I will tell you about, but I don't want to spoil it if you would ever see the movie.

 

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
3/19/21 12:02 p.m.

4 hours is a lot to sit through of LotR, or Lawrence of Arabia, or Ben-Hur.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not going to be up there with those.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/19/21 12:03 p.m.
Beer Baron said:

4 hours is a lot to sit through of LotR, or Lawrence of Arabia, or Ben-Hur.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not going to be up there with those.

It is 4 hours long, but it is actually sort of segmented into 6 or 8 chapters, so you could watch it in portions if desired.

 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
3/19/21 12:39 p.m.
Duke said:
Beer Baron said:

4 hours is a lot to sit through of LotR, or Lawrence of Arabia, or Ben-Hur.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is not going to be up there with those.

It is 4 hours long, but it is actually sort of segmented into 6 or 8 chapters, so you could watch it in portions if desired.

Yeah. Originally they were planning on releasing it in an episodic format, which would have been intriguing

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/19/21 12:45 p.m.

The original was bad, do anything really is an upgrade. Joss Wheden even thought it was terrible because Warner Bros kinda pushed him into a corner on what they wanted the film to be AFAIK.  The end result wasn't enough of the serious side or the jokey side and failed utterly. 

I'm not terribly impressed with DC and it's universe so far. BvS wasnt bad. I walked out of Man of Steel. Aquaman was awful although the end fight scene was really cool to watch. Suicide Squad was good, I've seen it a few times. Wonder Woman was really really bad, I don't get the thrill at all. DC has this weird formula that's basically " we will make you hate the character to start but by the end of the movie we will make you love them!" It's not a very successful formula IMO

 

Joss Wheden on the other hand has had quite a few great successes, Firefly is spectacular for one, so I don't think it was just him making the film bad

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
3/19/21 12:47 p.m.
Duke said:
Streetwiseguy said:

Green Lantern was some of the worst writing I've ever seen, ruining a perfectly good story.  Too much origin, not enough story.

Have you seen the Marvel Deadpool movies?  There's a relevant crazy credit at the end of Deadpool 2 I will tell you about, but I don't want to spoil it if you would ever see the movie.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGmb8P_rWfg

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/19/21 1:13 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:
Duke said:
Streetwiseguy said:

Green Lantern was some of the worst writing I've ever seen, ruining a perfectly good story.  Too much origin, not enough story.

Have you seen the Marvel Deadpool movies?  There's a relevant crazy credit at the end of Deadpool 2 I will tell you about, but I don't want to spoil it if you would ever see the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGmb8P_rWfg

So is that a yes about Deadpool 2?

NickD
NickD MegaDork
3/19/21 1:14 p.m.
Duke said:

I think I'm just really tired of Zack Snyder's movie making style.

I'm not a huge fan of his, like I said, he's a so-so director. He has a couple strengths (he can pull off some huge, sweeping set-piece moments when he wants to), but a lot of glaring weaknesses. But when you take his style and Joss Whedon's and jam them together and chop the overall length in half, you end up with a jarringly dissonant piece of work. This at least has a consistent tone, and it has enough time to properly develop characters and the story. He also lays the groundwork for something that could be very interesting if he gets to make it. Hard to say more without spoilers.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/20/21 11:51 a.m.

I sat down to watch it last night and couldnt get past the first chapter, really didn't like it.

 

Is the first chapter just that bad or?

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
3/20/21 5:27 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

I obviously didn't do my link properly.

Yes, I've seen Deadpool.  The link was to Ryan Reynolds drinking green cocktails made with his Aviator gin, wearing his green lantern ring on St. Patty's day, watching Green Lantern for the first time.

Iusedtobefast
Iusedtobefast Reader
3/20/21 11:49 p.m.

I watched it. I felt like a couple of the new characters were just thrown in, unless they were supposed to link to a second movie. I don't want to say too much so I don't ruin it for others. I still like the Marvel movies better but had high hopes for DC. They really haven't pulled it off with the exceptions of the Dark knight movies and I liked Wonder Woman but not Wonder Woman 1984. Aquaman wasn't bad. I like DC's animated movies and tv shows better.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/21/21 2:13 a.m.

Ok, I sat thru the whole thing. It is definitely better than the original and it's way too long.

 

I can see why Ray Fisher was so pissed about the whole thing, he had a fairly huge role for someone with not a lot on his resume. I know there's other reasons but that alone would have been anger inducing. However.....I greatly disliked his acting and his character. Overall pretty much every other character was much more enjoyable being fleshed out, even Steppenwolf. That's definitely a win there.

 

The slow motion effects probably added an hour to the movie, I understand that some scenes needed it but some really didn't need it. Sound wise I liked the fact that a bit of Doom/sludge was in it. Fleshing out the post apocalypse dream was great imo.

 

But is it a good movie? Not really. If the original didn't exist I really doubt this would be considered good, probably it would get less than favorable reviews. It's very corpulent and......droning. The chapters having a catch phrase or title was really cringey, small critique but still....

 

I'm glad I watched it, but I'll never watch it again

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
3/21/21 9:34 a.m.

They want $14 a month for HBO Max so I can see this? I am already paying for Netflix and Amazon Prime and Disney Plus and....and...

Every great new thing that comes out requires a new subscription to something else. This is getting to be worse than the cable I cut the cord on.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
3/21/21 10:28 a.m.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I'm always tempted to say, "No E36 M3, Sherlock" when people complain about this, but that would be rude.

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/21/21 10:50 a.m.

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

In my case I got it for a month so I can see Godzilla vs Kong when it comes out. Cheaper than movie tickets

jimbob_racing
jimbob_racing SuperDork
3/21/21 10:51 a.m.

Marvel movies are successful because they have humor, action and a cohesive outline for where they all fit together. DC movies dont seem to any of that. Plus Zach Snyder has an absolutely one dimensional, derivative style that nobody likes. 

IMHO, DC needs to go back and look blockbuster movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark and take notes.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
3/21/21 11:50 a.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :

I'm always tempted to say, "No E36 M3, Sherlock" when people complain about this, but that would be rude.

Except I think that Sherlock is on Amazon Prime. You can't even tell what's where anymore. Marvel is on Disney, DC is on HBO Max which is different from HBO, CBS is now Paramount and there is also Star Trek on Hulu, but not the latest ones, and so on......

At least cable has a program.

Sine_Qua_Non
Sine_Qua_Non SuperDork
3/21/21 12:30 p.m.
NickD said:

So, I got together with my friends last night to watch the release of the Snyder Cut of Justice League. For those not aware of the backstory, Zack Snyder shot the entire film, then his daughter passed away and he had to step back from the film, so Warner Brothers brought in Joss Whedon to finish it up. Joss Whedon extensively reshot segments and the film that came to theaters was not good at all. It was tonally jarring where it bounced back and forth between the two writing styles (Snyder was more serious, Whedon was more jokey), they tried to cram in origins for 3 new heroes and a villain plus a plot for the film in 2 hours which resulted in a very rushed film with lots of hurried exposition, a vague plot and some very rough CGI. Since that film came out, Zack Snyder has insisted that all the footage was there for his vision of the film, and that his vision was much better. After years of fans demanding to see it, Warner Brothers finally caved and released the Snyder Cut of the film, which dumps all the Whedon footage and doubles the original movie's length from 2 hours to 4 hours.

I'll admit to being skeptical. Zack Snyder is a so-so filmmaker who can be a bit too reliant on the same handful of tricks. Also, I've seen enough of those Director's Cut and Extended Cuts of films where they add 45 minutes in length but it's all just pointless futzing about in the middle. So, I did not expect this new version to fundamentally change a movie. Going into it, I said to my friends "I don't think this will do anymore than elevate a bad movie to an acceptable movie."

So, did it? Honestly, I came away relatively impressed. Right from the very beginning, it's a completely different film. For starters, it gets a bump to R-rated, with the F-word being thrown around a handful of times, and the fights having a bit more violence and weight to them. It opens entirely differently. Even the familiar bits from the original show up in a completely different order. It's tone and storytelling are much more cohesive, thanks to being the work of only one person now. The exposition and back story feels much less rushed and much better developed. I remember watching the original and there was a jarring scene where Aquaman goes to Atlantis, meets some woman who I had no clue who she was, she tells him he should be king and then Steppenwolf attacks, all in the span of about two minutes. That all plays out over a much longer time span, which doesn't leave your head spinning at the chain of events that just happened before you could process them. We get to see existing characters from the theatrical version get more fleshed. Cyborg, in particular, benefits from this. Same with Steppenwolf, who in the original just made vague references to what he was doing and why, but now we actually get told the reasons and logic. Aquaman feels less like a Dollar Store knockoff of Thor in Thor: Ragnarok. I won't spoil it, but a few new important characters show up that really surprised my friends and I. The one really blew our minds. The overhaul continues with a soundtrack that is almost entirely changed and some much improved visuals. The villian Steppenwolf looked like he was made out of clay in the original version and not very imposing, but Snyder's Steppenwolf wears a shiny metal suit of armor that is constantly changing and shifting. Steppenwolf's minions, the parademons, look less like rough stand-in CGI work and feel more complete. Near the end of the film there is a sequence with Flash that is visually stunning.

Is it perfect? No. It's still a hefty four hours. That's a lot of movie to sit through. Granted, it rarely drags, as it always seems to be moving forward. Watching four hours of this felt like much less of a chore than the original 2 hour film I trudge through in the theaters. A couple characters get left by the wayside with not much development. Wonder Woman probably suffers the most, because while she pulls most of the weight in fight scenes, outside of the fights she's just kind of hanging around at Bruce Wayne's place. Part of this is probably because Wonder Woman was the film preceding Justice League, so Snyder felt she didn't need the spotlight on her. It takes a few deep dives into comic book lore, so don't be surprised if you need to pull out your phone and google a few terms here and there. Zack Snyder tends to fall back on the same couple of tricks, one of which is excessive slow-motion sequences (Although they do make sense with the Flash, as its the best way to demonstrate how fast he is).

In the end I'd say it takes a terrible film and keeps it from being consigned to the dustbin of history. With all said and done, I'd probably give it a solid 7.5/10, if I was pressed to give it a ranking. If you have the time, it's definitely worth a viewing. One of the final scenes of the movie hints at what Snyder was building towards, and I'd honestly like to see that become a reality because it has some potential. Maybe if this does well enough on HBO Max, Warner Brothers will consider giving him the keys again.

IIRC, Snyder said he will NOT do anymore superhero movies. 

jimbob_racing
jimbob_racing SuperDork
3/21/21 8:21 p.m.

IIRC, Snyder said he will NOT do anymore superhero movies. 

Thank goodness. 

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