Keep the tip?

z31maniac wrote:

JThw8 wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I think most people have unrealistic expectations of what type of service they should get at a restaurant. It seems most think they should be getting 5 star, $50+ a plate service, from the $11.95 a dinner places most people eat.

Or maybe as a society we've just allowed our standards to slip as a whole and make allowances for poor work ethic and attitude. I tip, I tip well. But as PHeller points out, its a service job, your job is to SERVE, if you cannot perform that simple function to a decent standard than you should not be in the job and certainly not expect to be highly compensated for it.

I get that, you're talking to someone who spends as much going out to eat in a month as we spend on our mortgage. So I'm with you on getting quality service. I'm not doing a very good job of getting across my point. If the server was courteous, timely and didn't screw up my order, or didn't let me sit 15 minutes before asking if I wanted another drink...........to me they did their job. A bunch of you seem to be Steve Buschemi in Reservoir Dogs.

I dont disagree with you at all. Im a pretty easy customer, I have low expectations of a server. But some of the other comments especially about forgiving them if they are in a bad mood because of prior customers/bad hair day/management don't sit well with me. I get that people have a bad day, it sucks, but if the oil jockey forgets to put your drain plug in because he's having a bad day, if a doctor leaves a clamp inside you because its just not their day, noone is going to take that as an excuse. Part of the job in the service industry is at a minimum courtesy, if you cannot put aside your personal feelings and perform your job to the best of your abilities I won't feel the need to compensate you fully for that job.

You know what this is...? (edit: dang, beat me to it.)

Seriously though, I actually don't like that tipping is not the usual here in Europe. Service here is crap, because they don't earn more money for giving good service or loose it for bad. When I do tip, even the smallest amount, they get really surprised and happy. But it's much more common to get poor service because they know they won't be penalized for it, than to get good service because they probably wouldn't get a bonus from most people anyway.

That said, I'm usually a 15% guy. I honestly think 10% should be the norm (and raise their base pay), if only to make the math easy for anyone to do. I'm tired of friends and family asking me to calculate a 15% tip. I just want the option to be able to tip you more if you went above the call of duty, and less if you gave me crappy service. Lowest I gave was to the waitress who took so long to get me my drinks that a drink special got called, and other customers put in their orders after me, got their drinks sooner, and paid less for them; then she couldn't/wouldn't change the tab. I deducted the difference for the drink specials from her tip (actually wrote in the margins the math of what her tip would have been minus the difference).

z31maniac wrote: I get that, you're talking to someone who spends as much going out to eat in a month as we spend on our mortgage. So I'm with you on getting quality service.

Damn, you must tip a lot! Or you have a really crappy house. (joke)

fast_eddie_72 wrote:

z31maniac wrote: I get that, you're talking to someone who spends as much going out to eat in a month as we spend on our mortgage. So I'm with you on getting quality service.

Damn, you must tip a *lot*! Or you have a really crappy house. (joke)

Well not quite, but about 75%. The advantages of good wages and buying much less house than you can afford. Living in a cheap state helps.

In reply to DrBoost wanting servers to just be paid more.

I just called my buddy who is a restaurant GM. He said server labor (at $2.13/hr) accounts for 3% of sales, so if you wanted to pay them a wage comparable to what they make with tips ($12-14/hr) food costs would likely triple.

So you're $10 meal, becomes thirty, because you don't want to tip 15-20%?

I like to tip in cash when I can and not add it on to my credit card. If I were living on tips I would appreciate that.

z31maniac wrote: In reply to DrBoost wanting servers to just be paid more. I just called my buddy who is a restaurant GM. He said server labor (at $2.13/hr) accounts for 3% of sales, so if you wanted to pay them a wage comparable to what they make with tips ($12-14/hr) food costs would likely triple. So you're $10 meal, becomes thirty, because you don't want to tip 15-20%?

I don't even know where to begin with this post, but your marth is impeccable...

HiTempguy wrote:

z31maniac wrote: In reply to DrBoost wanting servers to just be paid more. I just called my buddy who is a restaurant GM. He said server labor (at $2.13/hr) accounts for 3% of sales, so if you wanted to pay them a wage comparable to what they make with tips ($12-14/hr) food costs would likely triple. So you're $10 meal, becomes thirty, because you don't want to tip 15-20%?

I don't even know where to begin with this post, but your marth is impeccable...

Point out what's wrong?

I'm just relaying what my buddy said. I thought the opinon of someone who has been running restaurants for over a decade might have a better idea of the numbers then we do.

z31maniac wrote: In reply to DrBoost wanting servers to just be paid more. I just called my buddy who is a restaurant GM. He said server labor (at $2.13/hr) accounts for 3% of sales, so if you wanted to pay them a wage comparable to what they make with tips ($12-14/hr) food costs would likely triple. So you're $10 meal, becomes thirty, because you don't want to tip 15-20%?

I call B.S. on that. I am helping with a HUGE project right now, helping with feeding lots of people. A few hundred a day. We are feeding them good, quality food and lots of it. Fresh produce, quality Angus beef, fresh baked bread, heck everything is fresh. It's costing about $1.25 a head per meal. I know, there's overhead and whatnot that's not in this picture but the point remains.
Let's work your numbers backwards. The meal costs me $10. I pay $12 because I tip 20%. How did my $12 pay for a meal that should cost $30? The market will bear the appropriate price no matter the product/service. If we did away with tipping the restaurant owner wouldn't be as rich, and that $10 meal might go up to $14. People would piss and moan (myself included) but he'd get over it. Then we'd only go to places that have good food and good service. That's how good waitstaff would be able to go to the choice restaurants.
I'm very good at what I do. Because of that, I can go to another company that is willing to pay me more (Chez Food Place) but I would not go to a restaurant that isn't looking for the best of the best because their product (dining experience in this discussion) doesn't need to be the best (McDonalds)

z31maniac wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

z31maniac wrote: In reply to DrBoost wanting servers to just be paid more. I just called my buddy who is a restaurant GM. He said server labor (at $2.13/hr) accounts for 3% of sales, so if you wanted to pay them a wage comparable to what they make with tips ($12-14/hr) food costs would likely triple. So you're $10 meal, becomes thirty, because you don't want to tip 15-20%?

I don't even know where to begin with this post, but your marth is impeccable...

Point out what's wrong? I'm just relaying what my buddy said. I thought the opinon of someone who has been running restaurants for over a decade might have a better idea of the numbers then we do.

Your buddy owns a restaurant and doesn't want to pay his folks 10-12 more per hour because he'd have to have one less benz (I've never known a restaurant owner that isn't making the bucks, though I've only known 3).

DrBoost wrote: Your buddy owns a restaurant and doesn't want to pay his folks 10-12 more per hour because he'd have to have one less benz (I've never known a restaurant owner that isn't making the bucks, though I've only known 3).

Winnah! Your buddy just wants you to directly pay his staff's wages, and make you feel bad about how poorly he pays them.

DrBoost wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

z31maniac wrote: In reply to DrBoost wanting servers to just be paid more. I just called my buddy who is a restaurant GM. He said server labor (at $2.13/hr) accounts for 3% of sales, so if you wanted to pay them a wage comparable to what they make with tips ($12-14/hr) food costs would likely triple. So you're $10 meal, becomes thirty, because you don't want to tip 15-20%?

I don't even know where to begin with this post, but your marth is impeccable...

Point out what's wrong? I'm just relaying what my buddy said. I thought the opinon of someone who has been running restaurants for over a decade might have a better idea of the numbers then we do.

Your buddy owns a restaurant and doesn't want to pay his folks 10-12 more per hour because he'd have to have one less benz (I've never known a restaurant owner that isn't making the bucks, though I've only known 3).

I'd wager that the ones making the bucks are the minority; most of the time the restaurants fail and the owners quickly find another profession or another job within the food industry.

GM = General Manager, not owner. But now I see what angle you're approaching it from.

I'm not questioning his numbers because I don't know. The guy has a degree in Hotel and Restaurant Administration, another degree from Le Cordon Bleu or whatever, and has been running restaurants for well over a decade.

The margin on food in a restaurant is SLIM, hence the reason alcohol is marked up 200-400%.

That's awesome that with a charitiable organization, you're able to feed people so cheaply. But's it hardly fair to compare that to a restaurant.

DrBoost wrote: How did my $12 pay for a meal that should cost $30?

Because the server now makes 7x what they currently do? So that labor cost goes from 3% to ~20%.

He also just text'd me this:

"And I wasn't even accounting for the fact we pay hosts and bartenders off tips and tip share, so food would increase a lot more"

then

"Plus service overall would go down, servers only incentive to go above and beyond, is to get a better tip"

Which Salanis seems to agree with being in Europe.

Then, good wait staff at a good place make signicantly more than $14/hr I used as an example.

HiTempguy wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Your buddy owns a restaurant and doesn't want to pay his folks 10-12 more per hour because he'd have to have one less benz (I've never known a restaurant owner that isn't making the bucks, though I've only known 3).

Winnah! Your buddy just wants you to directly pay his staff's wages, and make you feel bad about how poorly he pays them.

No, the customers pay the bills, for any business. If his cost of doing business goes up, so the will price he charges for the goods/service.

Geez.

z31maniac wrote: That's awesome that with a charitiable organization, you're able to feed people so cheaply. But's it hardly fair to compare that to a restaurant.

The charitable organization can do it cheaply, but not more cheaply than a restaurant. The price is the price. I'm only commenting on the cost of food.
But either way, I don't buy, nor will I ever buy that the cost of a meal will triple if folks are paid properly.
But, the point of my whole post is the tip-whoring that is going on. Anytime you deal with someone face-to-face you are expected to leave a tip just about.
I'm putting a tip jar in my cube tomorrow.

z31maniac wrote:

HiTempguy wrote:

DrBoost wrote: Your buddy owns a restaurant and doesn't want to pay his folks 10-12 more per hour because he'd have to have one less benz (I've never known a restaurant owner that isn't making the bucks, though I've only known 3).

Winnah! Your buddy just wants you to directly pay his staff's wages, and make you feel bad about how poorly he pays them.

No, the customers pay the bills, for any business. If his cost of doing business goes up, so the will price he charges for the goods/service. Geez.

Your math flaw comes from the assumption that paying the servers 3x more HAS to be accompanied by a 300% increase in profit.

Food costs will NOT have to triple to cover a 3x increase in server base pay. A MUCH smaller increase to retain the same profit.

It's like you guys are completely incapable of reading.

Those are not MY numbers, they came from the GM of restaurant that does $10k+ a week in sales.

DrBoost wrote: I'm putting a tip jar in my cube tomorrow.

I was actually writing out the sign for a tip jar at work in my head while reading this thread! Don't forget some feeder money.

I agree that the amount that makes up an "average" tip is on the rise, and all the websites related to food service I've ever been to are full of servers whining that anything less than 20% is an insult, which I find ridiculous.

However I'm not such an shiny happy person as to actually use the 10-15-20 scale I think is correct. Am I perpetuating the problem? Probably. On the other hand, by helping mold an entire peer-group of entitled bastards, I'm setting myself up to eat them alive over the next few decades.

I tip via moving the decimal left, multiplying by two, and rounding up or down depending on the service. I feel most of the time I round up, but growing up in the South I have a lot of patience about food (BBQ mentality).

z31maniac wrote: The margin on food in a restaurant is SLIM, hence the reason alcohol is marked up 200-400%. That's awesome that with a charitiable organization, you're able to feed people so cheaply. But's it hardly fair to compare that to a restaurant.

Truth... right here^^^

There is more than just the cost of the food that goes into the retail price. Rent, utilities, linen service(unless you use napkins for everything), waste disposal, advertising, and that awesome hourly wage for not only the waiting staff but cooks, busboys, etc. Oh and then there is that nasty word profit.

gamby wrote: Some people turn into such megalomaniacs about it. I SIT IN JUDGEMENT OF YOU I DECREE THAT YOU DID AN INADEQUATE JOB I CONTROL HOW MUCH YOU MAKE BECAUSE YOU ARE IN MY SERVITUDE!!! YOU ARE DEEMED INADEQUATE AND I SHALL TIP THUSLY BECAUSE YOU DID NOT MEET MY LIST OF 748 REQUIREMENTS FOR A 20% TIP ...because the extra $3 for someone who did a decent job is going to break the bank.

decent job does get a decent tip .... piss poor job gets piss poor tip ... great job gets great tip ... sorta how you'd like pay at your own job to be based .... or maybe not

Javelin wrote:

914Driver wrote: Then there's this guy. Leaves a 1% tip and notes "Get a real job" on the receipt! Obviously he's a rich banker that never had to work for a living. http://www.refinery29.com/banker-one-percent-tip

Bunk. It's a fake picture. Real total was $33 (what the hell would you order at that place for $133 anyway?) and the real tip was $7.33.

actually the real tip was $7.00

He called me back and admitted that was high number, said he will look into it tomorrow, since we are all curious.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

PHeller wrote: I think what gets me is that bars and restaurants create a false "salary" when their customers starting tipping enormously. You go to a fancy restaurant...its loud, the service is slow, the food is good, but portions are "meh". Your waiter/waitress was friendly and didn't mess anything up, but your experience left something to do be desired. Do you: A) Complain to the waiter that the portions were minimal and the atmosphere was too loud and that he should relay this information to the manager who you hope will change your bill to reflect the experience? B) Not tip the waiter because he should find a new job at a better restaurant. C) Write a negative Google review? My general feeling is that when I'm paying for service...I better get service. That means not charging me for extra dressing. That means seating me someplace quiet. That means not letting my water glass sit empty. If you work somewhere that is sooo busy that you can't attend to your customers, then you can't expect a big tip...because you'll be getting lots of little tips. So, the more packed the venue, the longer the wait, the less the tip.

Wait, so you go to a restaurant that isn't your style, then want to punish the wait staff, because you went somewhere "trendy" instead of somewhere "quiet?"

El, you really must try this because it's puerco pibil. It's a slow-roasted pork, nothing fancy. It just happens to be my favorite, and I order it with a tequila and lime in every dive I go to in this country. And honestly, that is the best it's ever been anywhere. In fact, it's too good. It's so good that when I'm finished, I'll pay my check, walk straight into the kitchen and shoot the cook. Because that's what I do. I restore the balance to this country

It't already been said but i'm gonna repeat it, Tipping is part of our culture, if you don't like it don't go out or start lobbying your congressman for higher sever wages!