Kentucky lawmakers shocked to find Evolution in Biology tests.

1988RedT2 wrote: Oh, good grief. It amuses me how eager people are to demonstrate their brilliant intellect by attacking the religious. I'm not going to choose sides, but it's no secret that Darwin's theory is full of holes. http://www.vedicsciences.net/articles/darwin-debunked.html http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html A wise man named Thomas Jefferson once said: "The wise know their weakness too well to assume infallibility; and he who knows most, knows best how little he knows."

How about simply put as religion does not belong in public schools.Beleif and faith are just that, not science. if you want your offspring to know all about biblical beliefs, than read them YOUR bible or put them into a relgious school. It's unfair to preach to non-believers or those of a different faith. Darwinism is not religion, creationism is.

Cone_Junky wrote: How about simply put as religion does not belong in public schools.Beleif and faith are just that, not science. if you want your offspring to know all about biblical beliefs, than read them YOUR bible or put them into a relgious school. It's unfair to preach to non-believers or those of a different faith. Darwinism is not religion, creationism is.

careful, thats a 2 way street...the zealots will tell you "if you dont want public schools teaching your kids about the truth in creation, teach them from a desk in your living room where you can teach them all the lies you want to."

seriously, I had someone say something like that to me...with a straight face.

we are all berked

In reply to 4cylndrfury:

At least you got in before the lock.

I posted this, not as an attack on the religious but the ignorant and uniformed wanting to keep it that way.

Religion and science are not mutually exclusive unless your faith relies on the brittle need to defend legend as fact.

Denying the existence of something you can watch take place in a petri dish is just ignorance, not religiousness.

there's a big difference between attacking the religious and laughing at some pretty weak logic.

If Creationism needs to be dismissed from school, then the scientific Big Bang Theory can not be taught either.

Ranger50 wrote: If Creationism needs to be dismissed from school, then the scientific Big Bang Theory can not be taught either.

There's a big difference.

Creationism is not science. It's a piece of religion. Ergo: Separation of Church and State.

Big Bang Theory is based in science. Science is and should be taught in schools.

These beliefs aren't Christian beliefs. They are evanglelical/fundamentalist/whatever you want to call it Christian beliefs.

Pretty much all the other Christian denominations believe in or at least allow for the belief in evolution. Some of them have for centuries.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Prove either. Both are really separate ideas about the same damn thing, IE-where everything came from originally.

which creationism should we teach?

I'm partial to "Nyx laid an egg, and from that egg comes the god of love, Eros. Then the shell pieces became Gaia and Uranus, the Earth and sky."

Mostly because it says 'uranus' and that always makes me giggle.

St Augustine, a key figure in Chrisianity, was arguing for a metaphorical interpretation of Genesis back in the 4th century. It just takes some Christians longer to catch on, I guess.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I posted this, not as an attack on the religious but the ignorant and uniformed wanting to keep it that way.

I was thinking maybe you posted it to see if people would take the bait...there seems to be a lot of these kinds of posts recently.

Ranger50 wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: Prove either. Both are really separate ideas about the same damn thing, IE-where everything came from originally.

That's not the point, though... One is based in science. One is based in religion. There's no "Science in Creationism."

I'm not going to pretend i can prove either, nor am i taking sides. I'm simply saying that teaching Creationism as a truth/fact violates the Separation of Church and State.

Removed

Ranger50 wrote: If Creationism needs to be dismissed from school, then the scientific Big Bang Theory can not be taught either.

How about we just frame it this way - Know thy enemy.

Learn all the science available to you - that way you can refute it properly. I went to 15yrs of Bible study when I was growing up - just put in that much time in Science class and we will be all squared up for a proper debate

4cylndrfury wrote: incendiary comment removed

It says you removed you post about my Dad being my Mom's cousin before I could post, but you were right. I'm originally from Georgia and according to our family tree everyone is related to everyone else in Georgia & YES my Dad was my Mother's cousin.

Re: proof. The thing about science is that it recognizes its fallibility, and constantly improves. Our best understanding at any given time is what is taught as the fruit of science, but the most important part of teaching science isn't as much the individual facts but the understanding of how to arrive at them, and how to avoid believing things which are patently untrue. Or even how to sort out the likeliest among options which are in some way plausible.

Any given theory doesn't have to be incontrovertibly proven in order to become the most useful understanding that we have at the time. And though our understanding of almost anything and everything is imperfect, through science it is always improving, and thus far has already provided enough useful understanding to give us the technology we enjoy today.

Some of the theories which have been sufficient to get this far have already proven useful, but will be proven wrong tomorrow as our understanding improves. Newtonian physics turns out to be more or less a good rule of thumb about how you can expect most of the world to behave when you want to build an engine or tune a suspension, but it's not actually a full explanation of the phenomena we see.

I think a lot of the flak science gets from people who see science and religion strictly at odds comes down to viewing science as a plug in replacement for religion as "that thing you believe in with unwavering faith", and it just doesn't work that way.

this is an incendiary comment with dubious merit and even less solid logic.

(just trying to keep it going)

I'm glad I have hobbies with such passionate people, because if I didn't I'd be real boring I think.

stuart in mn wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I posted this, not as an attack on the religious but the ignorant and uniformed wanting to keep it that way.

I was thinking maybe you posted it to see if people would take the bait...there seems to be a lot of these kinds of posts recently.

Well, I posted it to post it because it was interesting. I happen to think that ignorance is a problem in this country and when it is allowed to condemn an entire population to more of it then it deserves a little ridicule.

Religion vs science is not the issue. Newton was a pretty devout guy - it did not prevent him from being a brilliant scientist. He observed truths in nature and reported them accurately. Whom he attributed these things to did not change the fact that they were true.

What is going on in KY is just idiots not understanding something but seeing it as controversial to their base. Ignorance. Propagating.

Most illogical

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

Ranger50 wrote: If Creationism needs to be dismissed from school, then the scientific Big Bang Theory can not be taught either.

There's a big difference. Creationism is not science. It's a piece of religion. Ergo: Separation of Church and State. Big Bang Theory is based in science. Science is and should be taught in schools.

big bang theory is a piece of religion... the religion of Humanism...

but it seems most schools LOVE to teach that religion...

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

stuart in mn wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I posted this, not as an attack on the religious but the ignorant and uniformed wanting to keep it that way.

I was thinking maybe you posted it to see if people would take the bait...there seems to be a lot of these kinds of posts recently.

Well, I posted it to post it because it was interesting. I happen to think that ignorance is a problem in this country and when it is allowed to condemn an entire population to more of it then it deserves a little ridicule. Religion vs science is not the issue. Newton was a pretty devout guy - it did not prevent him from being a brilliant scientist. He observed truths in nature and reported them accurately. Whom he attributed these things to did not change the fact that they were true. What is going on in KY is just idiots not understanding something but seeing it as controversial to their base. Ignorance. Propagating.

The problem is that the two demographics you're talking about very much resemble a venn diagram.

I'm not saying that all religious people are ignorant, or that all ignorant people are religious. But, the group that makes up where they meet in the middle seems to have made it in to the Kentucky legislature.

They also seem to be the squeakiest wheel when it comes to these issues as well.

4cylndrfury wrote: careful, thats a 2 way street...the zealots will tell you "if you dont want public schools teaching your kids about the truth in creation, teach them from a desk in your living room where you can teach them all the lies you want to."

Ranger50 wrote: If Creationism needs to be dismissed from school, then the scientific Big Bang Theory can not be taught either.

only took 3 posts to go right where I knew it would.

I suppose my argument is this:

atomic physics are and always have been the same...an atom behaves the same way now as it did millenia ago when man was scratching his ass in the garden. We now can see it happen on fancy tech gadgets that didnt exist back then. We can measure it, and know it to be true.

If you had tried to explain uber-complex topics like Quantum physics several dozen centuries ago, not only would you be stoned to death for your insanity, bbut no one would have a single berkin idea what you were talking about. Your information would be useless and lost forever.

So God (or whoever is in charge) made up some stories that made it easier to swallow. Same way that you tell your kids that babies come from 2 people who love each other very much...most adults know about sperm and eggs and reproduction, yet we tell our (reasonably) simple minded children a watered down version to help them understand.

Dont get me started on how "The Gospel" was manipulated and contorted to fit the needs and wants of a few horny monarchs in Europe over the ages...so what youre getting now is an aberration of "The Word" we were meant to read.

I had more, but I want to eat my sandwich while its warm.

4cylndrfury wrote: I had more, but I want to eat my sandwich while its warm.

It's 90-some-odd degrees here, but now I want my favorite meatball sandwich from the place that's been on hiatus for two months...

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

yamaha wrote: I'm glad that I live in a northern southern state, and that our elected officials aren't that "out of it"

I am willing to bet they are just as out of it in some other way.

Didn't Indiana refuse to change between Daylight Savings/Standard time until 2006?

Yep, and there's a reason for it. In particular, where Yamaha, Bobzilla, and I live, we're too close to CST. DST REALLY berkeleys everything up, and not in a good way. Having to get black out blinds because you want to go to bed at 10:30PM is STUPID.

This, the retards got their way claiming "Its good for the farmers".......I think the only reason Indiana went with DST is so the old people could figure when the next show was on TV.

Also, longest day of the year, and I could still drive down my road without needing the headlights on at 2300 hours. Please, do tell me how we're better off on EDT.

Also, as pointed out, yes our state has problems like the rest, we just aren't as bad as Kentucky.....