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Woody
Woody GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/27/10 11:21 a.m.

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/04/27/news/new_haven/aa1_new_haven_woostershooting042710.txt

Would-be robber shot in New Haven's Wooster Square

NHPD looks for evidence in Wooster Square Monday.

NEW HAVEN — A 40-year-old man apparently picked the wrong person to try to rob at knife point Monday and ended up at the hospital with two gunshot wounds to the chest, police said.

As the alleged would-be robber lay wounded, his intended victim called 911.

The incident occurred shortly after 1 p.m. on Wooster Place just outside Columbus Park in the Wooster Square neighborhood.

The shooting victim, tentatively identified by a source as Hector Santiago, 40, is expected to recover, and was speaking to police. The shooter, who police said is 65 and from out of town, waited at the scene for officers to arrive and was brought to police headquarters to be interviewed. He was later released, police said.

Police recovered a small knife at the scene, not far from the shooter’s discarded umbrella.

Cecilia Dougherty, who lives on Chapel Street facing the park, heard gunshots.

“I thought, ‘No, that can’t be.’ Then 30 seconds later I see all the police,” she said. “It’s pretty scary in the middle of the day in Wooster Square.”

There was some reassurance that the victim apparently was defending himself.

Even so, she added, “If you’re walking your dog, for example, you don’t expect the person next to you to have a gun — for any reason.”

The park is a popular destination and often is teeming with dogs and their socializing owners in the afternoon and evening. It’s the city’s Little Italy section, known for its iconic pizza and Italian cuisine.

Lt. Rebecca Sweeney-Burns, the police supervisor for the area, said preliminary indications were that the man was shot when he attempted to rob the shooter.

Police spokesman Joe Avery added that the man brandished a knife, and that’s when his intended victim pulled out a gun. The shooter is licensed to carry the weapon, police said, and there was no information on any charges.

It all occurred across the street from the Polly McCabe Center, a transitional high school, and just yards from St. Michael’s Church, which has overlooked the 4-acre park for 150 years.

Clinicians from the Yale Child Study Center responded to offer counseling to any Polly McCabe students who might have seen the incident. One teacher did, and was taken to police headquarters to give a statement.

With Wooster Place closed, neighbor Jane Lederer, who is active with the block watch, surveyed the crime scene while walking her dog.

“It was astonishing how huge of a police response there was,” she said, estimating that as many as two dozen marked and unmarked vehicles responded to the scene.

Rob Deffendall, who lives on nearby Greene Street, said he heard shots, but it initially didn’t register with him that they could be gunfire.

Lederer and Deffendall said the area isn’t entirely insulated from crime, but nothing of Monday’s magnitude. There are periodic muggings and car break-ins, both said.

Deffendall said some residents have been talking about creating an informal night patrol, when flashlight carrying block watch members would keep an eye on the neighborhood.

“At night, you have to watch yourself, but during the day, this is the last thing you expect,” he said.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
4/27/10 11:29 a.m.

Hell yeah....

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
4/27/10 11:30 a.m.

“At night, you have to watch yourself, but during the day, this is the last thing you expect”

Especially the guy with the knife I'd imagine.

Brotus7
Brotus7 New Reader
4/27/10 11:53 a.m.
Some Dumb Broad said: Even so, she added, “If you’re walking your dog, for example, you don’t expect the person next to you to have a gun — for any reason.”

What's it matter? You shouldn't know if someone is properly carrying concealed. People who say stuff like that just frustrate me.

nutherjrfan
nutherjrfan Reader
4/27/10 12:04 p.m.

I'm glad he tagged the guy. I know of two incidents where off-duty cops fired on their assailants and missed - pathetic. Actions should have consequences, especially inherently evil actions - I do not subscribe to the acceptable level of crime theory.

tuna55
tuna55 HalfDork
4/27/10 12:08 p.m.
Brotus7 wrote:
Some Dumb Broad said: Even so, she added, “If you’re walking your dog, for example, you don’t expect the person next to you to have a gun — for any reason.”
What's it matter? You shouldn't know if someone is properly carrying concealed. People who say stuff like that just frustrate me.

Agreed.

ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter Dork
4/27/10 12:12 p.m.

Good on him. Criminals love nothing more than a disarmed populace.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
4/27/10 12:23 p.m.
ReverendDexter wrote: Criminals love nothing more than a disarmed populace.

Politicians too.

oldtin
oldtin Reader
4/27/10 12:40 p.m.

Lederer and Deffendall said the area isn’t entirely insulated from crime, but nothing of Monday’s magnitude. There are periodic muggings and car break-ins, both said.

wtf? Wasn't Monday's action another periodic mugging - just happened to have an alternative outcome - that was favorable to the intended victim instead of the usual got mugged and cops sez - we'll look into it.

aircooled
aircooled SuperDork
4/27/10 1:08 p.m.

I wonder why it was necessary to shoot him?

I mean, the one guy tries to rob the other guy by showing a knife. When the other guy pulls a gun... he tries to stab him?... still wants his wallet?... generally when someone has a knife, and the other guy has a gun, the guy with the knife does not press the subject.

I don't know the specifics, but it does seem a little strange that a guy with a gun needs to shoot a guy with a knife to defend himself. Of course if the guy with the knife was smart, he wouldn't be robbing people in the middle of the day... so no sympathy for that guy either way.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/27/10 1:10 p.m.
aircooled wrote: I wonder why it was necessary to shoot him? I mean, the one guy tries to rob the other guy by showing a knife. When the other guy pulls a gun... he tries to stab him?... still wants his wallet?... generally when someone has a knife, and the other guy has a gun, the guy with the knife does not press the subject. I don't know the specifics, but it does seem a little strange that a guy with a gun needs to shoot a guy with a knife to defend himself. Of course if the guy with the knife was smart, he wouldn't be robbing people in the middle of the day... so no sympathy for that guy either way.

Well if someone pulls a deadly weapon on you and asks you to hand over your wallet, they're threatening your life. I'd say the use of deadly force (by gun, skilled martial arts move or otherwise) was justified.

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
4/27/10 1:11 p.m.

the tone of the article to me sounds like they think the person defending themself is a cowboy or something.

"the shooting victim" he wasn't the victim, he was the result of his own choice to try and rob someone.

poor guy will probably end up getting sued by the robber, and losing

aircooled
aircooled SuperDork
4/27/10 1:20 p.m.

The big mistake of the shooter is that he should have killed him. If you are going to shoot someone you are basically committing to kill the person anyway. Probably a low caliber gun... so 6 or 8 shots might have been considered excessive.

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
4/27/10 1:21 p.m.

In reply to aircooled:

sorry, the gun is not to diffuse the situation, it is to end it. the idea that showing a gun will stop a robbery is right up there with the "why don't you just shoot them in the leg?" idea that comes up just about every time these things happen.

when you pull a gun, you had damn sure be ready, and justified, to use it.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
4/27/10 1:22 p.m.
aircooled wrote: I wonder why it was necessary to shoot him? I mean, the one guy tries to rob the other guy by showing a knife. When the other guy pulls a gun... he tries to stab him?... still wants his wallet?... generally when someone has a knife, and the other guy has a gun, the guy with the knife does not press the subject. I don't know the specifics, but it does seem a little strange that a guy with a gun needs to shoot a guy with a knife to defend himself. Of course if the guy with the knife was smart, he wouldn't be robbing people in the middle of the day... so no sympathy for that guy either way.

You don't pull a gun to wave around. Ever. #1 rule of CC. You pull a gun, you are shooting. Likely the shooter was smooth and fluent with the gun and it was out and firing in one fluid motion.

These comments are what kill me. "Why'd you have to SHOOT him?" BEcause he was going t ostab me. Him, or me. I will win everytime.

Strizzo
Strizzo SuperDork
4/27/10 1:28 p.m.
Rifleman's Creed said: This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will... Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and myself are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life... So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!
z31maniac
z31maniac Dork
4/27/10 1:44 p.m.

Unfortunate for society that he survived the shooting.

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
4/27/10 1:53 p.m.


Murtaugh: "I try to shoot 'em in the leg or something"

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
4/27/10 2:48 p.m.
Bobzilla wrote:
aircooled wrote: I wonder why it was necessary to shoot him? I mean, the one guy tries to rob the other guy by showing a knife. When the other guy pulls a gun... he tries to stab him?... still wants his wallet?... generally when someone has a knife, and the other guy has a gun, the guy with the knife does not press the subject. I don't know the specifics, but it does seem a little strange that a guy with a gun needs to shoot a guy with a knife to defend himself. Of course if the guy with the knife was smart, he wouldn't be robbing people in the middle of the day... so no sympathy for that guy either way.
You don't pull a gun to wave around. Ever. #1 rule of CC. You pull a gun, you are shooting. Likely the shooter was smooth and fluent with the gun and it was out and firing in one fluid motion. These comments are what kill me. "Why'd you have to SHOOT him?" BEcause he was going t ostab me. Him, or me. I will win everytime.

Truth. My dad beat that into my head when I was a kid; NEVER EVER pull a gun unless 1) you have no other choice and 2) you are ready to carry all the way through.

Richard Pryor did a bit about knife fights where he said 'if someone pulls a knife on you, forget all that shi+ you saw in the movies: RUN LIKE HELL.' Sage sound advice. Or, as in this case, defend yourself with a firearm.

Some Dumb Broad said: Even so, she added, “If you’re walking your dog, for example, you don’t expect the person next to you to have a gun — for any reason.”

That quote was put in there just to show the world that despite another incident where someone's life was saved by a weapon we still must be hard on those who would carry such an icky nasty dangerous thing. In short, typical lefty mass media bullE36 M3.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
4/27/10 3:16 p.m.
Jensenman wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
aircooled wrote: I wonder why it was necessary to shoot him? I mean, the one guy tries to rob the other guy by showing a knife. When the other guy pulls a gun... he tries to stab him?... still wants his wallet?... generally when someone has a knife, and the other guy has a gun, the guy with the knife does not press the subject. I don't know the specifics, but it does seem a little strange that a guy with a gun needs to shoot a guy with a knife to defend himself. Of course if the guy with the knife was smart, he wouldn't be robbing people in the middle of the day... so no sympathy for that guy either way.
You don't pull a gun to wave around. Ever. #1 rule of CC. You pull a gun, you are shooting. Likely the shooter was smooth and fluent with the gun and it was out and firing in one fluid motion. These comments are what kill me. "Why'd you have to SHOOT him?" BEcause he was going t ostab me. Him, or me. I will win everytime.
Truth. My dad beat that into my head when I was a kid; NEVER EVER pull a gun unless 1) you have no other choice and 2) you are ready to carry all the way through. Richard Pryor did a bit about knife fights where he said 'if someone pulls a knife on you, forget all that shi+ you saw in the movies: RUN LIKE HELL.' Sage sound advice. Or, as in this case, defend yourself with a firearm.
Some Dumb Broad said: Even so, she added, “If you’re walking your dog, for example, you don’t expect the person next to you to have a gun — for any reason.”
That quote was put in there just to show the world that despite another incident where someone's life was saved by a weapon we still must be hard on those who would carry such an icky nasty dangerous thing. In short, typical lefty mass media bullE36 M3.

Umm...Folks.... I'm scared. I think we agreed with something.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
4/27/10 3:42 p.m.

I carry a concealed wood chipper. There are typically no survivors.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
4/27/10 3:42 p.m.

But I still would take a Toyota over a GM product.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla Dork
4/27/10 3:45 p.m.

Whew... Ifeel better now. For a minute I thought the apocolypse was near! You can keep your sneaker ruining 'yodas. I'll keep my odd collection of Korean and American "junk".

aircooled
aircooled SuperDork
4/27/10 3:45 p.m.

Question that this brings up:

Situation: Similar to above, someone threatens you, you pull a gun (one of those high capacity types) and shoot them...

Option 1: Using you marksmanship you bore a hole through the base of his nose and blast his brain steam out the back of his head... result: very dead.

Option 2: Not being as confident about your marksmanship, you empty the 12 round clip into his chest... result: very dead.

Question: Is there any difference to the above two? In both cases the perp is dead, in both cases you shot him, in both cases you intent was to kill him (which is pretty much the rule that cops use, shoot to kill).

The reason I ask is, it is likely a cop would get investigated for that second one, even though the intent and result are the same.

Duke
Duke SuperDork
4/27/10 3:48 p.m.
Brotus7 wrote:
Some Dumb Broad said: Even so, she added, “If you’re walking your dog, for example, you don’t expect the person next to you to have a gun — for any reason.”
What's it matter? You shouldn't know if someone is properly carrying concealed. People who say stuff like that just frustrate me.

She's from Boston, Taxachussetts, the bluest of blue states - of course she can't conceive of owning a gun. Imagine the Toecutter saying "Eeeek! A gun!" except for real and not with sarcastic fake fright.

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