N Sperlo wrote:Curmudgeon wrote:Dats wut I been sayin.aussiesmg wrote: Wow, just wow. I defend most Police actions in here but I got nothing.Same here. To open fire like that is just indefensible.
This is why I posted it after bob linked it to the local board....I vote we change the slogan on LAPD's cars from "To Protect and Serve" to "Hookers and Blow"
Bobzilla wrote:Sky_Render wrote:He's intelligent, trained and motivated with nothing to lose. You don't get more deadly than that.JG Pasterjak wrote: By the way, here's the unedited "manifesto." Most news outlets are publishing a heavily edited version that just deals with his beef with the LAPD. The complete version rambles a bit more at the end, and seems to make him appear both more human and more crazy at the same time. Apparently he was really looking forward to seeing The Hangover III. And I bet LL Cool J's phone has already rung to see if he wants to play this guy in the film version. jgI read that thing yesterday. Several things are quite scary. First of all, he considers himself already dead. He has already written his life off. Nothing to lose. Secondly, he had at least some exposure to classified military intelligence pertaining to Al Qaeda and other terrorist cells, including how they wage asymmetric warfare and what does and does not work. He is also military-trained. He furthermore knows how LAPD operates. What is most disturbing is the fact that his manifesto, excluding the parts where he discusses killing and targeting LAPD officers, is actually well-written.
That manifesto isn't that crazy. That's the weird part. Normally crazy manifestos go all 'time cube' on you and it's painfully obvious that the guy's bonkers. This guy remains very civil. Pissed, threatening fatalities, yes, but not insane.
-- I have no doubt that some of what he says about the LAPD is true. I don't think going on a killing rampage is a good process. I can understand the anger to a point, and I'd normally expect the 'killing rampage' portion to be taking over, but it doesn't seem to have.
Anyway, I hope he lives through being captured (although I am certain the LAPD won't let that happen) so he can be interviewed. I obviously don't want the guy to succeed at taking anyone else out.
time cube, like this!
Timecube said: The bible time was wrong then and it proved wrong today. This a major lie has so much evil feed from it's wrong. No man on Earth has no belly-button, it proves every believer on Earth a liar.
Sky_Render, you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. As I said I was playing devils advocate if you read my post. Much different than agreeing with whats been done.
Its unfortunate that apparently innocent people were shot no doubt. Those officers will have to deal severely for that.
tuna55 wrote: TIMECUBE!!!
I berkeleying love Gene Ray, wisest human.
A laugh riot since 1997!
In reply to tuna55:
agreed. He's very much in control of himself. I think that is what makes me almost believe he may be right with the regards to the cover ups.
It'll be interesting to see if the media actually looks into his statements to see if they're true or not.... most should be pretty easy to verify.
Read somewhere else the second "truck" they shot up was a black Ridgeline. Can anyone verify?
the fact that he knows how the LAPD, the Military, and even Al Queda works is going to make it VERY hard for them to find him.
I think the cops that shot those women and the ones that disabled a similar black pickup near by are still thinking their suspect is one of their typical stupid perps...
I hope he does go to trial.. it would be very interesting to see what develops afterwards. Getting caught will be ugly and his prison time will be very painful..
I have a feeling he'll go to ground for a few weeks, kill a few more LAPD cops, go to ground again, and continue this for a while.
Bobzilla wrote: In reply to tuna55: agreed. He's very much in control of himself. I think that is what makes me almost believe he may be right with the regards to the cover ups. It'll be interesting to see if the media actually looks into his statements to see if they're true or not.... most should be pretty easy to verify. Read somewhere else the second "truck" they shot up was a black Ridgeline. Can anyone verify?
Yep. Black Ridgeline. Good for shooting at, but not towing apparently.
And by "more crazy" in relation to the full text, I just meant that it strays off into a lot of unrelated areas. Commentary about pop culture, lists of women he thinks are beautiful, stuff he's going to miss when he's dead, recommendations to news shows, etc. But I guess if I were writing what I believed to be my last communication to the rest of the world I'd cover a lot of bases, too. Mine would probably have more dick jokes, though.
I'm no psychologist, so I don't know what that sort of thing says about someone's psyche. Does that mean that he thinks he's such hot E36 M3 that people should pay attention to his commentary on every event he feels the need to comment on? Or does it simply mean he was tying up some loose ends, knowing he wouldn't be around much longer?
jg
I'm about 1/3 of the way through his manifesto, and so far this guy seems crazy in only a few very specific ways:
He seems to think that all the value of his life was in his military/police career. This led to him thinking that a reasonable solution to all the awful things that happened to him is to go Rambo on the LAPD, since his life is "over."
If you call him the N-word, he loses his E36 M3, seemingly related to childhood trauma around this.
Javelin wrote: ....I hope the two innocent people make a full recovery, and then win the largest settlement in the history of the US, because this is one time it's actually deserved!
I am sure the tax payers of Los Angeles would respectfully disagree with you. These idiots screw up and the taxpayers foot the bill... lovely.
How about the concept of treating this as if a civilian had done the same thing. Of course since these guys are supposed to be trained they should be held to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one.
The justification for shooting to kill (which is the purpose of opening fire) to clearly unidentified people in a truck is hard to imagine.
Ok where did he get SA-7s?
93EXCivic wrote: Ok where did he get SA-7s?
hUH?
Bobzilla wrote:93EXCivic wrote: Ok where did he get SA-7s?hUH?
His manifetso said: Do not deploy airships or gunships. SA-7 Manpads will be waiting.
93EXCivic wrote:Bobzilla wrote:93EXCivic wrote: Ok where did he get SA-7s?hUH?His manifetso said: Do not deploy airships or gunships. SA-7 Manpads will be waiting.
I glossed over that part at first, but yeah, that's pretty serious.
Do not deploy airships or gunships. SA-7 Manpads will be waiting.
Seems highly unlikely. Not exactly something you can stuff into your duffel bag on your way home from Iraq.
I read the whole thing as well and will agree with most of the sentiment here. He is crazy but not in the off the chain way we normally think of. He is intelligent, he believes he has a just mission, he is not afraid to die and has nothing to loose, and he is well trained and supposedly well armed.
I'd be E36 M3ting bricks if I was on the LAPD.
I also believe there is probably a great deal of validity to his complaints against the department and they should be investigated. Sadly, since they came from the mouth of a "madman" they will be ignored.
I also think Sky Render is right, unless he makes a mistake this will be a long war of quick battles followed by periods of hiding.
Sad thing is he is at least partly right about the LAPD. It is a seriously cancerous department and unfortunately nothing is going to change about that.
I always told my rooks on their first day, right after their first roll call that they were not " white knights" and they needed to check their emotions, prejudices, and biases at the door. If they couldnt do that then they needed to quit before they got started.
tuna55 wrote:93EXCivic wrote:I glossed over that part at first, but yeah, that's pretty serious.Bobzilla wrote:93EXCivic wrote: Ok where did he get SA-7s?hUH?His manifetso said: Do not deploy airships or gunships. SA-7 Manpads will be waiting.
I must have missed that when I read through.
I read it as well, leaving me mildly conflicted and pleased to not be a member of the LAPD. If his version of events has a reasonable amount of truth, I can understand the frustration - and rage at the loss of police and naval career. Can also see that if he is a person whose identity is wrapped up solely in their profession, and having it wrecked could lead to a desire to exact some vengeance - everybody fantasizes about it a little when they've been wronged.
The unhinged part comes in when he starts acting on it and shifting from the story of a good guy's tragic experience with the LAPD, to crazy ex-employee on a killing spree - albeit, one with extraordinary training and capabilities instead of the random civilian nut job.
The conflicted part is that I'm not having much in the way of sympathy for the LAPD - mostly due to their own actions. They do seem to be reinforcing some of the guy's points.
I am wondering why this didn't come to a swift conclusion a few days ago when he a took a few shots at a cop car. How did that not end up as a brief car chase/arrest?
oldtin wrote: I read it as well, leaving me mildly conflicted and pleased to not be a member of the LAPD. If his version of events has a reasonable amount of truth, I can understand the frustration - and rage at the loss of police and naval career. Can also see that if he is a person whose identity is wrapped up solely in their profession, and having it wrecked could lead to a desire to exact some vengeance - everybody fantasizes about it a little when they've been wronged. The unhinged part comes in when he starts acting on it and shifting from the story of a good guy's tragic experience with the LAPD, to crazy ex-employee on a killing spree - albeit, one with extraordinary training and capabilities instead of the random civilian nut job. The conflicted part is that I'm not having much in the way of sympathy for the LAPD - mostly due to their own actions. They do seem to be reinforcing some of the guy's points. I am wondering why this didn't come to a swift conclusion a few days ago when he a took a few shots at a cop car. How did that not end up as a brief car chase/arrest?
You concisely summed up just how I feel.
What he should have done is taken all the evidence he had and went to Dateline or Sixty Minutes.
aircooled wrote: I am sure the tax payers of Los Angeles would respectfully disagree with you. These idiots screw up and the taxpayers foot the bill... lovely. How about the concept of treating this as if a civilian had done the same thing. Of course since these guys are supposed to be trained they should be held to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one. The justification for shooting to kill (which is the purpose of opening fire) to clearly unidentified people in a truck is hard to imagine.
this, its sad the tax payers will end up footing the bill, but until they require their officers to be completely held accountable, that won't happen.
IMHO, I understand why they're jumpy/pissed, but they need to GTFO if that is effecting their judgement. Poor judgement by them will only lead to a body count....
Sky_Render wrote: What he should have done is taken all the evidence he had and went to *Dateline* or *Sixty Minutes.*
Thats where he went wrong. Had he played his cards right, he could have gotten some seriously good notoriety, maybe even a political career.
Now he'll be lucky if he ever gets to court. He'd be wise to try to get into Mexican or Canadian hands, but I'd still be worried about someone getting paid off to kill him prior to arrest.
I'm also a bit worried about the "no helicopters" part, because he may surrender only to be killed by police.
At this point he's guilty, but the media also needs to look into his REAL unedited manifesto and pick out what they can about his claims.
Wrong make. Wrong model. Wrong color. Wrong sized truck...in both cases.
When this is done there better be more than a few officers without badges, guns, and pensions. And then us taxpayers get to pay for their incompetence
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