Latest on the Bronco

Am I not allowed to link to other magazines here? Because R&T has an interview with Ford marketing about the whole IFS thing. 

QUOTE

Finally, while independent suspension used to mean limited wheel travel, Ford says the Bronco's suspension has 17 percent more travel than the Wrangler. You can also get Bilstein position-sensitive dampers on every trim of the Bronco, which get stiffer toward the top end of their travel. That means more on-road comfort around town with better composure in challenging high-speed terrain. Combined with the inherent advantages of independent front suspension, the new Bronco should easily feel more refined and stable than the Wrangler, especially in the on-road driving where most owners spend the majority of their time.

UNQUOTE

They're basically confirming everything everyone says in this thread (except the Jeep Guy).

pheller said:

 Jeep believes they are going to win this fight not by adding suspension better suited for off-road comfort and high-speed stability, but instead by adding a big honkin engine. 

Jeep going IFS with the Wrangler would be like Ford putting IRS on the Mustang. Don't be ridiculous ;)

Seriously, though, it would be a massive image change. Even the Square Headlight Experiment didn't work.

I think his point was that within reasonable budget, a modified straight axle will have more articulation than a modified IFS and be more stout (no worries of CV angles.)

I wouldn't doubt that. In order for me to get any more travel out of my Tundra's suspension, I'd need to spend $4,000+ for a long travel conversion. I can lift it all I want, but that won't change geometry of the control arms. 

On a straight axle, travel is really only limited by contact points and shock location. I'm not up on the costs to increase travel/articulation on Jeeps these days, so I couldn't honestly tell you what all would need to be done to increase those values. 

So if your going to modify, and your goal is maximum articulation, the straight axle offers a better base. 

Ford is betting that vast majority of Jeep owners really only lift their vehicles to fit larger tires. 35's are a popular no-lift upgrade on Jeeps, so Ford can now say that their Bronco easily fits, and comes with a 35" option from the factory. 

If my experience tells me anything, its that the vast majority of new cars buyers care very little about the same details knowledgeable enthusiasts care about and often a new car buyer who does know about the benefits of Straight Axles vs IFS, or similar details, is willing to make sacrifices because his wife and kids like one vehicle over another. 

Not sure if already discussed, but you can't pair the Sasquatch hardcore offroad trim with a manual transmission. Lame. You can get a Wrangler Rubicon with a stick.

https://jalopnik.com/a-2021-ford-bronco-sasquatch-stick-shift-will-be-like-b-1844394812

Which is odd, because the manual transmission is offered with the 2.3L and the Sasquatch is available on 2.3L trucks. But, nope, you want the Sasquatch, it's 10-speed auto only.

In reply to Dave M (Forum Supporter) :

Am I "the Jeep Guy?"

I was once "The Volvo P80 Guy," around here, pretty sure I've been dethroned, I had a brief stint as, "The Cheap but Quality Car Audio Guy," it's good to be somebody again.

I think we're all pretty well in agreement, here, I think there's a lot of skimming or lack of reading comprehension going on, or maybe I'm not as good at conveying my words as I thought?

I've qualified all of my statements.

<sarcasm> I guess, I'll text all of the friends and acquaintances I know that wheel SAS-ed Toyotas or S-10s, and have ditched their TTBs for solid axles, and let them know they're doing it wrong.  We should probably start a letter writing campaign to all of the off road magazines, and that loud, spiky haired, fella from Xtreme 4x4, to let them all know how mistaken they are. </sarcasm>

I wonder when we will get full pricing? march or april maybe?

No one is saying that solid axles are the wrong thing for the 0.01% of people who go to places like Moab.  What people are saying is that for 99% of people 100% of the time an IFS is going to be better both on and off road.  The point you 'need' a solid front axle is the really really extreme stuff that most people, no matter what their Walter Mitty moments may tell them, will never ever tackle.  

Is solid axle the best choice for rock crawling? Yes. It is the best choice for all off-road surfaces? No - ask the Baja 1000 crowd about that.  Is it cheaper to modify? Yes.

Will Ford and Jeep guys be arguing about this until the end of time? Yes ;)

If I was spec'ing the best off-road Bronco (or Jeep) for my own use, I wouldn't go for the manual honestly.  So the lack of a manual trans in the top level isn't that big a shock. And this is from a guy with a stick shift diesel pickup :)

pheller said:

Jeep believes they are going to win this fight not by adding suspension better suited for off-road comfort and high-speed stability, but instead by adding a big honkin engine. 

 

This has been Chrysler's business model for the last 75 years. 

I'm curious about the difference(s) between this and the Ranger's front suspension, if any exist. I was reading that the Rangers are pretty limited from the factory. Like you get 25% more travel with new uniball UCAs and longer shocks. That tells me the factory pieces are very limiting  Of course, I can't find that info now. I wish it wasn't impossible to find travel numbers. 

MrChaos said:

I wonder when we will get full pricing? march or april maybe?

 

With my reservation I have been told to expect "Just reservation now, spec in a couple months, delivery is mid 2021 "

mr2s2000elise said:

MrChaos said:

I wonder when we will get full pricing? march or april maybe?

 

With my reservation I have been told to expect "Just reservation now, spec in a couple months, delivery is mid 2021 "

What spec are you going for?

Personally I think I will do a 2022 Bronco Base 2 door in area 51, with the Sasquatch package and the aux switches. We will see.

NickD said:

Not sure if already discussed, but you can't pair the Sasquatch hardcore offroad trim with a manual transmission. Lame. You can get a Wrangler Rubicon with a stick.

https://jalopnik.com/a-2021-ford-bronco-sasquatch-stick-shift-will-be-like-b-1844394812

Which is odd, because the manual transmission is offered with the 2.3L and the Sasquatch is available on 2.3L trucks. But, nope, you want the Sasquatch, it's 10-speed auto only.

BOOOOOOOOO! This is a deal breaker for me. I seriously do not want the 10 speed auto. When I bought my 2012 Wrangler, I sought out a manual. When the dealer could not find a manual in the color I wanted, I gave up my first color choice just to get a stick. It adds so much to the driving experience. Plus it lowers the bottom line.

A base Bronco with a stick, the 2.3T and the Sasquatch package is the only version I am interested in buying. I might be swayed to forego the Sasquatch package but the price would have to be damn good to get me to budge.

The only thing that would be difficult or pricey to add aftermarket on the Squatch package is the 4.7 locking diffs. Just get the manual and build it yourself. 

MrChaos said:

mr2s2000elise said:

MrChaos said:

I wonder when we will get full pricing? march or april maybe?

 

With my reservation I have been told to expect "Just reservation now, spec in a couple months, delivery is mid 2021 "

What spec are you going for?

Personally I think I will do a 2022 Bronco Base 2 door in area 51, with the Sasquatch package and the aux switches. We will see.

Red 4 door wildtrack with the following:

• Standard:: SasquatchTM Package, 35-inch tires 
• Option:

Dual Tops - Modular Hard Top Shadow Black-Painted + Black Soft Top (4-Door Only)
Tube Step - Powder Coated
Heavy-Duty Modular Front Bumper Open image overlay for Heavy-Duty Modular Front Bumper
Brush Guard (Requires Heavy-Duty Modular Front Bumper)

Leather steering with power seat

Dual Smart Charging USB Ports - Type C + Std A, DashBoard
Wireless Charging Pad
Heated and Leather-wrapped steering wheel with Bronco Badge, cruise and audio controls

Do we know yet what the Sasquatch package actually is? 35s and...what else? Apparently it's not an expensive option at like $1500, so it can't add a ton of stuff. 

I'd wonder if the ride height between the Base model and Sasquatch is substantial or not. Like, could you go to your dealer and say "I want a base model with manual, but lets add the Sasquatch stuff aftermarket."

pheller said:

Do we know yet what the Sasquatch package actually is? 35s and...what else? Apparently it's not an expensive option at like $1500, so it can't add a ton of stuff. 

I'd wonder if the ride height between the Base model and Sasquatch is substantial or not. Like, could you go to your dealer and say "I want a base model with manual, but lets add the Sasquatch stuff aftermarket."

 

Select the Sasquatch package on your Bronco build, and you get a shorter 4.7:1 final drive ratio, position-sensitive Bilstein shocks, locking axles front and rear, 17-inch "beadlock-capable" wheels and a set of fat 35-inch mud-terrain tires. To help clear those tires, the option group also adds a suspension lift kit and higher-mounted fender flares. It also includes the heavy duty front differential and axles.

Also it is automatic only

In reply to pheller :

This is from Ford's media site:

SASQUATCH

17-inch black-painted aluminum beadlock-capable wheels with 35-inch LT315/70R17 BSW Mud-Terrain tires, electronic-locking front and rear axles, 4.7:1 final drive ratio, high-clearance suspension, position-sensitive Bilstein shock absorbers and high-clearance fender flares, 10-speed automatic transmission with Trail Control

I'm guessing that it will be about a $5-6k package

Also, here is the link to Ford's Bronco media site:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2020/07/13/all-new-2021-bronco-two-door-and-first-ever-four-door-models.html

It has all of the official information as well as cool pictures of the frame, old Bronco videos and PDFs with all of the specifications for the 2 and 4 door Broncos.

And I think I saw somewhere the lift is 2 inches?

I like the look of the higher flares and bigger tires, but I don't like the wheels, don't need the desert racing shocks, and probably won't ever really rock crawl being in the Deep South. 

If IFS and IRS are so bad, why do Humvees use them? (The real H1, not the mall crawlers.)

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:

If IFS and IRS are so bad, why do Humvees use them? (The real H1, not the mall crawlers.)

Because like most military vehicles, it was designed and built to drive over 99.9% of the planet at 40 mph.

The other .1% is rock walls in Moab :p.  And since thats already ours, it's protected by freedom and dudes arguing on the internet, instead of humvees.  

In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :

Now you've done it

We will move from the SFA debate to the superiority of portal axles...

Short of the basic rule of "never say never" this has zero relevance to me. So why am I glued to this thread?

It's a really, really cool vehicle.

I want it to make more sense for me than it ever could short of an unexpected move to the boonies. Which would be so unexpected as to only be covered by said "never say never" rule...

Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) said:

If IFS and IRS are so bad, why do Humvees use them? (The real H1, not the mall crawlers.)

Speculating here, but as No Time pointed out, they also have portal hubs, which means the design parameters likely prioritized ground clearance.  Which IF(R)S has in spades.