Learn me: Bankruptcy

In reply to STM317 :

This is the way.  But - I'm going to guess she's going to walk around with her fingers in her ears and refuse to do that, because "it's mah house!!1!"

Zestimate is usually within shouting distance, but generally it's high.  I use the bottom end of the Zestimate range if I don't want to go get a broker price opinion.

If it goes through full foreclosure and a sheriff's sale, it would probably -probably- bring enough to settle the full mortgage balance.  Rule of thumb is expect about 60-70% of what the house would sell for in a traditional sale.  

tester (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to The_Jed :

A foreclosure takes 6 plus months from start to finish.
 

THIS VARIES HUGELY FROM STATE TO STATE.  In Missouri, they send you a registered letter when you default (usually considered 90 days delinquent), and then after publishing notice of the sale in the newspaper for 21 days, they sell it on the courthouse steps.  No oversight involved.

Fortunately, Jed's in Illinois, which is basically the other extreme.  Foreclosure requires a lawsuit, and if you lawyer up it can literally take years for the foreclosure to go through.

Ranger50 said:

In reply to The_Jed :

There should have been language stating whose debts are whose. If there is, forward it on to joint accounts. If there isn't, sorry your stuck paying her bills.

Sure, show your divorce decree to a creditor.  They don't care.  The contract you signed with the creditor controls.  Your remedy if your ex fails to pay a debt the divorce decree said was hers is to go after her for contempt of court...and that always works great.  Especially if you're co-parenting.

Max P. Dingrods (Forum Supporter) said:

Ranger50 said:

In reply to The_Jed :

There should have been language stating whose debts are whose. If there is, forward it on to joint accounts. If there isn't, sorry your stuck paying her bills.

Sure, show your divorce decree to a creditor.  They don't care.  The contract you signed with the creditor controls.  Your remedy if your ex fails to pay a debt the divorce decree said was hers is to go after her for contempt of court...and that always works great.  Especially if you're co-parenting.

Why not? It happens every day to others. She's already berkeleyed him in countless ways and still is clearly.

Ranger50 said:

In reply to The_Jed :

Because if you are looking at bankruptcy without a large debt load and she isn't.... There should have been language stating whose debts are whose. If there is, forward it on to joint accounts. If there isn't, sorry you're stuck paying her bills.

Again, I'm not but, whatever I guess you know more about my situation than I do. It's a house we bought together in '16. My name is still on the mortgage. The language was in the divorce decree, she got the stuff, I got the kids. I filed a quit claim but, she never refinanced. My credit is already berkeleyed by her not paying the mortgage.

I just got back from a consultation with a lawyer who specializes in these kinds of E36 M3 shows and, apparently I was jumping the gun a bit. He said to stand by until I get served then we can move forward with a foreclosure defense.

Ranger50 said:

Max P. Dingrods (Forum Supporter) said:

Ranger50 said:

In reply to The_Jed :

There should have been language stating whose debts are whose. If there is, forward it on to joint accounts. If there isn't, sorry your stuck paying her bills.

Sure, show your divorce decree to a creditor.  They don't care.  The contract you signed with the creditor controls.  Your remedy if your ex fails to pay a debt the divorce decree said was hers is to go after her for contempt of court...and that always works great.  Especially if you're co-parenting.

Why not? It happens every day to others. She's already berkeleyed him in countless ways and still is clearly.

Because in order to modify an existing contract, all of the parties to the contract have to agree to modify it.  Creditors are not party to the divorce proceedings.  The settlement agreement is a "contract" between the two divorcing parties.  So if ex doesn't pay a debt that the settlement agreement says she's responsible for, but the original contract says that both parties are responsible for, then the creditor can go after Jed.   Creditor does not care about your divorce or what your settlement agreement says.   Creditor wants their money.  Creditor gets money from Jed, and Jed can then go after ex because she didn't follow divorce decree.   Ex may or may not have money, and she may or may not make Jed's life difficult regarding other debts, or, even worse, raising kids.

I cannot tell you how many times I have seen this happen.   And short of not ever having a joint debt, there's not a lot of way to prevent it.  Most married couples are two-income and both incomes are needed to qualify for a mortgage.   Even if Jed had a lawyer for the divorce, this would still be situation.

It was kind of comical when the attorney was asking me the usual finance/debt-related questions...


Him - "Do you have a vehicle loan on a truck or car?"

Me - "No."

Him - "Any ATVs, UTVs, etc?"

Me - "No"

Him - "A boat, hunting equipment, guns?" (People finance guns?!)

Me - "No."

Him - "So, these cars, the Fusion, Forester, and Focus are there leins against them?"

Me - "No." (Already asked that one but, whatever...)


(What he wanted to ask) Him - "Do you do anything?... like ANYTHING?!"

Me - "No"

Just so that I'm understanding right:

You own a "shack" that's worth $30k, has a $20k mortgage in your name, and you're up to date on these payments.

You own a number of cars that are paid cash, and that your kids use.

Your ex owns a house worth $180k, has a $110k mortgage in your name, and it's $9k behind on payments because your ex hasn't been paying.

Talk to a bankruptcy lawyer to confirm, but my belief:

If you do nothing and your ex either gets current with the mortgage by starting to make payments again, or decides to refinance the house in her own name, then she gets to stay, the bank is happy, and nothing happens to your credit.

If you do nothing, and your ex does nothing, eventually the lender on her house will foreclose and evict her. If the house sells for more than the mortgage (which is likely, someone will buy it for $130k or so, right?) then she gets evicted and the mortgage company will send her a check for however much money is leftover after paying the principal left on the mortgage. In this case, if the house sells in foreclosure for $130k, she gets kicked out and gets a $20k check, and you get a foreclosure on your credit history, and the bank is happy.

If you do nothing, and your ex sells the house, she gets to keep whatever is left after the sale. So if she's able to sell it for $160k, then she's moved out of the house and she gets a $50k check, you get nothing on your record, and the bank is happy.

Your job here is to convince her that she's going to be out of the house one way or another because she's not paying. She'll either move or get evicted, but that's her choice. It's up to her whether she wants to take whatever price the bank gets at auction for the house, or whether she wants to get a higher price by staging and advertising and listing it for sale the traditional way.

What you can be sure of:

The bank is getting paid.

She's either going to come up with enough money to get current on the mortgage, get a new mortgage herself, or move. She can't stay for free.

If she's leaving the house, she'll get more selling it "nice" than having the bank sell it as a foreclosure. If she likes money, she should sell it the traditional way.

In reply to the_machina :

I agree.  

Lets also focus on this one:  

If you do nothing, and your ex sells the house, she gets to keep whatever is left after the sale. So if she's able to sell it for $160k, then she's moved out of the house and she gets a $50k check, you get nothing on your record, and the bank is happy.

The spin here is if the wife sells the house the traditional way, there is a $50k check coming her way!!!!  How much of her problems would a $50k check solve?   

Yes, I realize that the $50k will also go toward paying rent but in simple terms of a $1k rent that will buy her 50 months (48 months is 4 years.)  Add to that the probably 12 months she is behind on the current house and she hasn't paid a month payment for mortgage/rent for 5 years!  

John Welsh said:

In reply to the_machina :

I agree.  

Lots also focus on this one:  

If you do nothing, and your ex sells the house, she gets to keep whatever is left after the sale. So if she's able to sell it for $160k, then she's moved out of the house and she gets a $50k check, you get nothing on your record, and the bank is happy.

The spin here is if the wife sells the house the traditional way, there is a $50k check coming her way!!!!  How much of her problems would a $50k check solve?   

Yes, I realize that the $50k will also go toward paying rent but in simple terms of a $1k rent that will buy her 50 months 48 months is 4 years.)  Add to that the probably 12 months she is behind on the current house and she hasn't paid a month payment for mortgage/rent for 5 years!  

Except that he is still entitled to 25k.

The decree should have said that for whatever property exists in each other name had to be either sold or refinanced to eliminate the other party. My first divorce attorney asked this question and it was his answer/solution.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Seems like OP is content with the arrangement in place. No reason to poke that hornet's nest after the fact. Lets get him through this without further damage instead of focusing on the past and harboring ill will.

In reply to SMT317:

Getting custody of your kids = Priceless!

Ranger50 said:

John Welsh said:

In reply to the_machina :

I agree.  

Lots also focus on this one:  

If you do nothing, and your ex sells the house, she gets to keep whatever is left after the sale. So if she's able to sell it for $160k, then she's moved out of the house and she gets a $50k check, you get nothing on your record, and the bank is happy.

The spin here is if the wife sells the house the traditional way, there is a $50k check coming her way!!!!  How much of her problems would a $50k check solve?   

Yes, I realize that the $50k will also go toward paying rent but in simple terms of a $1k rent that will buy her 50 months 48 months is 4 years.)  Add to that the probably 12 months she is behind on the current house and she hasn't paid a month payment for mortgage/rent for 5 years!  

Except that he is still entitled to 25k.

The decree should have said that for whatever property exists in each other name had to be either sold or refinanced to eliminate the other party. My first divorce attorney asked this question and it was his answer/solution.

There's no way for any of us (except Jed) to know what he's entitled to upon the sale of that house. It could be absolutely zero dollars (if his divorce decree allocated all of the value of the house to the ex) or could be not zero dollars. That's for Jed to look at his divorce decree and see what it says.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Jed has signed a quit claim. That means he has no claim to any proceeds from a sale. 
 

It's not his house. But he is responsible for the debt (because the house wasn't liquidated to pay off the mortgage as part of the divorce decree)

My partner is in a similar situation. When she got divorced she and her ex owned a house together.  It had a mortgage at a VERY favorable rate. 
 

When they spilt, he signed a quit claim. That means she owns the house. But the mortgage was in both of their names, and the bank isn't about to let him off the hook for the debt.  She is making payments in full, but her ex's credit is locked up because the records show him as having a mortgage (on a house he no longer owns). 
 

When I divorced, my ex and I sold the house (before the divorce was finalized) and split the proceeds. We didn't have this problem. 
 

(Actually, she kinda screwed up. She bought another house before our divorce was finalized. If I had wanted to be a dick, I could have demanded half of her house as part of the divorce settlement- I did not)

In reply to The_Jed :

Listen to your lawyer, but try to begin talking her into selling (as outlined above). 
 

It's in both of your best interest. 

So, again convincing her to go for the $50k check not only clears our man this time but clears him of this house forever as well as any future residence of hers.  .  

In reply to John Welsh :

EXACTLY!

... it also clears HER of a foreclosure (and possible bankruptcy), and gives her $50k to pay off all those other debts she's probably been avoiding (which will rebuild her credit score). 
 

It's in everyone's best interest. 

In reply to SV reX :

Unfortunately YouTube would have very little content if everyone made only rational intelligent choices.

In reply to Rons :

There is a possibility that Mrs-Jed-No-More is only interested in screwing Jed at any cost. Dumb choice, but you're right it could happen. 
 

That would be a different problem. 

Indy - Guy said:

In reply to SMT317:

Getting custody of your kids = Priceless!

Absolutely!

The_Jed said:

(People finance guns?!)
 

People finance anything that costs money.  

There's a third-party finance company now that works with a chain of local auto repair shops to offer lease-to-own agreements ON BRAKE JOBS.

Yes. They will write a lease-to-own agreement on wear items and the labor to install them on your car. 

No, they will not come take them if you don't pay.  (Not that I've ever heard of, anyway).   It's an effing joke.

Now, the lease-to-own chrome wheel places WILL come take the rims if you don't pay.  At least they used to.

Aaaaaaaand I've been served.