Learn me Crossfit, or similar

Toyman01 wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: ...Mainly by listening to this guy right here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM and cutting that E36 M3 out where possible. Because if you buy what he is saying it really isn't calories in/calories out if you are ingesting poison as calories...

Wow, that was a very interesting eye opener. Thanks for posting that.

Did you stay with it to the point where he used the word "poison"? His case is solid. Now... check the label of EVERYTHING. It's in my bacon. My kids are very upset that I'm not poisoning them any longer.

calteg wrote: @ golfduke That may have been the most concise and polite Crossfit debate I've ever had. Thanks. FWIW, I'm not a blind hater. I joined a box for 6 months, decided it wasn't for me, and bailed. Both of my best friends are trainers with different boxes in town. Between the 3 of us, we have never seen someone bow out of WOD because it seemed like it had a high chance for injury. Peer pressure is a hell of a thing.

I genuinely agree. I personally shut down 2-3 athletes a week for degrading movement quality in a workout. I tell every single person that attends a class- If I think it looks like crap, and I stop you, it's because I care about you and don't want you injured. In that time, I've had 1 person get pissed and walk out on me. He came back the next day apologetic, and in truth is probably one of my best athletes now that we've set the groundwork.

It is a very fine line- ask someone to efficiently and properly move weight and/or their bodies against a clock, but either A) trust the coach enough to stop when those standards are violated, or B)stop yourself when you feel unsure. It's a fine line. That's why it's not for the strong of ego or the impatient. I promise you, I can cripple even the most elite athlete with a pvc pipe and an hour of their day. It's getting them right between their ears to trust the coach and programming and believe that, for them at that moment, pvc is infinitely more important and valuable than a loaded barbell... That's what makes a good coach imo.

mtn wrote: Thanks Golfduke. And I agree with you on almost everything you've said, which is why I asked the question--how do I find a coach who knows what he/she is talking about? I still find some of the exercises dangerous, but that comes back on me knowing my limits. Push it to the limit, but be smart enough to know that I have them.

You have to search around. For me and my mentor, I knew it after going to and sitting in on 3 other gyms. He was the 4th, and I knew instantly that I was good. For example, don't trust anyone who doesn't do a functional movement screening on you before allowing you to work out in their gym. Second, talk to them about their stance on scaling, mobility, and membership. Finally, watch a class and see the quality (or lack thereof) of the members' movements? If they look like monkeys berkeleying footballs, or they are actively making you cringe, run away to the next one.

I'm really not bragging, but I expect to be held personally accountable for E36 M3ty movement under my watch. If a stranger walks in my gym and sees someone moving like crap under any load at all, I expect to be punished for that. I hold myself to a standard that will ensure safety first and foremost. Does that mean that every class participant will move well? Absolutely not. I have some serious trainwrecks on a daily basis. But I can assure you that they will be scaled to the point where it will be impossible for them to hurt themselves until I can install proper movement standards and work with them to improve.

That's why it takes time. You have to see to know it, but I can walk into a gym now (and I do, a lot when I travel and drop in) and within 2 minutes tell you whether it's a quality gym or a reckless hackjob that you see on crossfit fail compilation vids...

mtn wrote: FYI, it isn't like I've just been sitting on the couch naked eating cheeto's all day. Prior to the new year, I was playing hockey 2 times a week and reffing hockey about 5 games a week. Since the new year, I've been walking 1 mile a day (to/from train), playing hockey a handful of times outdoors, and then reffing about 1-2 games a week. So not a rigorous regimen, but not completely listless. I also don't drink pop, don't eat much junk food or fast food (the closest to that I have with any regularity is a hamburger once a week and popcorn almost nightly, but made on the stove), and in general eat healthy.

Double post, sorry. I also have a hockey background, and I can say that the propensity for injury playing beer league hockey is 10000000x higher than an average crossfit workout, haha.

golfduke wrote:

mtn wrote: FYI, it isn't like I've just been sitting on the couch naked eating cheeto's all day. Prior to the new year, I was playing hockey 2 times a week and reffing hockey about 5 games a week. Since the new year, I've been walking 1 mile a day (to/from train), playing hockey a handful of times outdoors, and then reffing about 1-2 games a week. So not a rigorous regimen, but not completely listless. I also don't drink pop, don't eat much junk food or fast food (the closest to that I have with any regularity is a hamburger once a week and popcorn almost nightly, but made on the stove), and in general eat healthy.

Double post, sorry. I also have a hockey background, and I can say that the propensity for injury playing beer league hockey is 10000000x higher than an average crossfit workout, haha.

Maybe. In my experience beer-league injuries come primarily either from people who don't know what they were doing (C-leaguers) and from people not wearing appropriate equipment (if it were up to me, face masks would be mandatory in B and C league).

(There was a period of 2 years where I reffed nearly every single mens league game in town--between 3 and 8 a week, year round)

Part of my issue is that I literally know not one person who is a crossfitter, or former crossfitter, who wasn't hurt at some point. And I know it has to be a combo of the athletes not being aware, and the coaches not being properly trained.

Looking online I see a ton of Crossfit gyms that, out of all of the trainers, have the highest certification of "Crossfit level 1", and then a few other Crossfit designations (but never a level 2). That doesn't mean much to me. I want to see a Bachelors in Kineseology, or something similar. There is one near me that the lead coach and owner has a Doctorate of Chiropractic and a Masters of Exercise Physiology... But how often is he there?

FWIW, that is the place I am going to start with. They offer a boot-camp type deal that "are designed around functional movements with an emphasis on speed and endurance". I figure that this will be a good start for me for a month or two, then I can either get into Crossfit there or into something else completely if I just don't like the feel. They say this about the two: "CrossFit classes run 60-minutes with a larger emphasis on strength and skill work, including Olympic Lifts, power lifting, gymnastics movements, etc. The Bootcamp classes run 40-minutes with the emphasis being largely on endurance and conditioning. However, the two are more similar than they are different. They’re both scalable to any fitness level. They both involve constantly varied, functional movements performed at high intensity and both types of workouts are measurable."

mtn wrote:

golfduke wrote:

mtn wrote: FYI, it isn't like I've just been sitting on the couch naked eating cheeto's all day. Prior to the new year, I was playing hockey 2 times a week and reffing hockey about 5 games a week. Since the new year, I've been walking 1 mile a day (to/from train), playing hockey a handful of times outdoors, and then reffing about 1-2 games a week. So not a rigorous regimen, but not completely listless. I also don't drink pop, don't eat much junk food or fast food (the closest to that I have with any regularity is a hamburger once a week and popcorn almost nightly, but made on the stove), and in general eat healthy.

Double post, sorry. I also have a hockey background, and I can say that the propensity for injury playing beer league hockey is 10000000x higher than an average crossfit workout, haha.

Maybe. In my experience beer-league injuries come primarily either from people who don't know what they were doing (C-leaguers) and from people not wearing appropriate equipment (if it were up to me, face masks would be mandatory in B and C league). (There was a period of 2 years where I reffed nearly every single mens league game in town--between 3 and 8 a week, year round) Part of my issue is that I literally know not one person who is a crossfitter, or former crossfitter, who wasn't hurt at some point. And I know it has to be a combo of the athletes not being aware, and the coaches not being properly trained. Looking online I see a ton of Crossfit gyms that, out of all of the trainers, have the highest certification of "Crossfit level 1", and then a few other Crossfit designations (but never a level 2). That doesn't mean much to me. I want to see a Bachelors in Kineseology, or something similar. There is one near me that the lead coach and owner has a Doctorate of Chiropractic and a Masters of Exercise Physiology... But how often is he there? FWIW, that is the place I am going to start with. They offer a boot-camp type deal that "are designed around functional movements with an emphasis on speed and endurance". I figure that this will be a good start for me for a month or two, then I can either get into Crossfit there or into something else completely if I just don't like the feel. They say this about the two: "CrossFit classes run 60-minutes with a larger emphasis on strength and skill work, including Olympic Lifts, power lifting, gymnastics movements, etc. The Bootcamp classes run 40-minutes with the emphasis being largely on endurance and conditioning. However, the two are more similar than they are different. They’re both scalable to any fitness level. They both involve constantly varied, functional movements performed at high intensity and both types of workouts are measurable."

Boot camps are god intro's. Even if you were to jump into crossfit classes, there would be a 6 hour "elements" class, that goes through individual movement screenings, form/technique/movement overviews, introduction to pace, etc... Lots of boxes overlook these as formalities to gain membership as quick as possible. My advice would be to find someone who really emphasizes this component and makes effort to really teach you how to move with respect to your own bodily abilities.

You're search is off to a good start. Find the most educated owner and start from there. Sure, you won't be able to guarantee that he'll be there all the time, but at the very least you know that his coaches have been taught with his personal expertise as well. It's better than some ahole who has pockets of money, a free weekend, and wants to make some bank.

Ugly Crossfit truth- To open up a crossfit gym, all you need is the following- - $5000 franchise fee - Level 1 certification- ($1000, a 50 question test, and 16 hours of classes) - a building, equipment, and a white board.

Notice how unbelievably little amount of education is required there? That's the issue with crossfit- It's incredibly popular, and it's attracting wealthy individuals who don't know crap about functional movement, fitness, nutrition, or anything to open up boxes and reap the financial benefits of it. Those are the places you need to be wary of. I can promise you, however, that those gyms are very easy to spot, especially when you've had time to spend in one where the owner/coaching staff knows what they are doing.

Good luck. where are you located btw?

golfduke wrote: Good luck. where are you located btw?

Northern Chicago suburbs. Likely moving to the city in the next 1 to 6 months.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Toyman01 wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: ...Mainly by listening to this guy right here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM and cutting that E36 M3 out where possible. Because if you buy what he is saying it really isn't calories in/calories out if you are ingesting poison as calories...

Wow, that was a very interesting eye opener. Thanks for posting that.

Did you stay with it to the point where he used the word "poison"? His case is solid. Now... check the label of EVERYTHING. It's in my bacon. My kids are very upset that I'm not poisoning them any longer.

Yes I did. Then I tracked down his second video and watched it. It's just a polished, slightly hysterical, political, version of the first and skippable. Then I planted my wife on the couch and made her watch it. He makes a very convincing case. The biochemistry is fascinating.

And you are correct, fructose is in everything. Avoiding it all together is going to be a challenge, but a little planning should make cutting way back doable.

The store bought sausage I cooked last night had HFCS in it. Putting it in bacon is just wrong. Sausage I can make, now I need to learn how to make bacon too.

Thanks again.

Toyman01 wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Toyman01 wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: ...Mainly by listening to this guy right here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM and cutting that E36 M3 out where possible. Because if you buy what he is saying it really isn't calories in/calories out if you are ingesting poison as calories...

Wow, that was a very interesting eye opener. Thanks for posting that.

Did you stay with it to the point where he used the word "poison"? His case is solid. Now... check the label of EVERYTHING. It's in my bacon. My kids are very upset that I'm not poisoning them any longer.

Yes I did. Then I tracked down his second video and watched it. It's just a polished, slightly hysterical, political, version of the first and skippable. Then I planted my wife on the couch and made her watch it. He makes a very convincing case. The biochemistry is fascinating. And you are correct, fructose is in everything. Avoiding it all together is going to be a challenge, but a little planning should make cutting way back doable. The store bought sausage I cooked last night had HFCS in it. Putting it in bacon is just wrong. Sausage I can make, now I need to learn how to make bacon too. Thanks again.

Haven't watched it yet, is it one of those "High Fructose Corn Syrup is the devil" guys?

If it is, it is something I more than likely agree with, btw. There is absolutely nothing wrong with HFCS. Until it is in everything. Too much of a good thing, ya know? I believe it becomes toxic at those levels. And looking at what I've eaten today, I've probably had some. Actually, I definitely had some in my fru-fru coffee drink.

I try to avoid "artificial" foods as much as possible. Didn't help that mom brought in Cheetos yesterday though.

In reply to mtn:

Yes, but rather than just yelling about it, he explains the biochemistry of why and the history of it. It's also not only the HFCS, but sugars in general and how they are processed by the body and liver. It's well worth the hour and a half.

It's eye opening for sure. Fructose derivatives are in everything. Another amazing eye opening read is 'Salt Sugar Fat'. It really changed the way I see things in the grocery store, and I'd recommend anyone who thruly cares about their health to read it. In fact, I have a copy and I'd be happy to send it along to anyone interested for free, I'll kick the postage and everything. It's that powerful IMHO.

It's a unique blend between consumer needs, conglomerate producer's profitability, and marketing wars on the store shelves. Basically, 100 times out of 100, the consumer loses.

golfduke wrote: It's eye opening for sure. Fructose derivatives are in everything. Another amazing eye opening read is 'Salt Sugar Fat'. It really changed the way I see things in the grocery store, and I'd recommend anyone who thruly cares about their health to read it. In fact, I have a copy and I'd be happy to send it along to anyone interested for free, I'll kick the postage and everything. It's that powerful IMHO. It's a unique blend between consumer needs, conglomerate producer's profitability, and marketing wars on the store shelves. Basically, 100 times out of 100, the consumer loses.

I disagree. Maybe 100 out of 100 times the uneducated/uninterested consumer loses. But it isn't hard or expensive to eat healthy*, you just have to know (A) how to read a nutritional label, including ingredients, and (B) what they mean.

*We're leaving organic vs. inorganic out of "healthy" for the sake of this conversation, because it is different from what is being discussed. Fact is, I can find organic lard and sugar. Heck, I can find organic food loaded with MSG (which actually isn't bad for you in normal amounts).

The problem I have with "eye opening" books and such about nutrition is that there's such a tendency toward fads in that area. 20 years ago, fat was bad and was going to kill us all. 10 years ago it was carbs. Now it's gluten. And every one of those was supported by research, books written by actual doctors, and lots of enthusiastic followers. Now, as for the organic thing, it's pretty intuitive to see that, the less processing a food has been through, the odds are it's going to be less harmful to you.

But here's the thing. What works for one person may not work for another. I know for me, eliminating entire food groups is a non-starter. I try (and usually fail) to practice moderation. It's not the end of the world if you eat a candy bar or some potato chips. Just don't do it every day, and try to minimize the amount when you do. Personally, I find that approach a lot more sustainable than saying "I'm never eating bread again" or some such thing.

YMMV, of course, but that's my philosophy.

Hey golfduke, what are your thoughts on this gym from the website? http://www.thefoundrychicago.com/

mtn wrote: Hey golfduke, what are your thoughts on this gym from the website? http://www.thefoundrychicago.com/

Everything looks pretty good. I know that there are a few good competitors at Union Square, so there is going to be a given of pretty high quality movement. Whether that translates down to the coaches is another matter alltogether though. I'd definitely goin in and do their free intro class. You'll be able to learn 10000x more than I could tell you about the place just by looking and listening in on a class.