Learn me home defense firearms...?

I think the worry here is that someone comes up to you and gives you no other information but "I'm married, with a 2 year old, and I want a gun for home safety." My first question is going to be "does your wife and kid threaten you?" 

I'd bet that in most cases, suicide by self-inflicted gunshot is probably more common than murder by random home invasion. Many people with mental health issues will idolize the gun, not in a worship way, but in a way that whenever someone knocks on the door, they are debating grabbing the gun. Whenever someone is in the backyard (like a utility worker) they grab the gun. Whenever they feel the slightest bit threatened, they wonder where the gun is. For some personalities, having a gun in the house CAN influence, and certainly exaggerate your threat response. 

If I was single, I'd be more inclined to own a gun. As a family man now, not so much. When you've got a family, everyone in that household now owns a gun. Got a wife with depression or anger management issues? Got a curious kid? Got family who may be staying over occasionally? What about the babysitter? Want some friends to house sit? If I owned a gun for protection, I'd want it near me, ready to rock. In all of these other circumstances, that can't be possible. 

You are now the protector of that family, AND the protector of that gun. 

I'd be more inclined to install outdoor cameras, motion security lights, secure the doorways, take walks around the neighborhood and meet my neighbors. 

I'm wanting to try a Glock 43 with a streamlight TLR6.  Something you can carry, won't beat you up to practice with, but can also be placed in a bedside safe with an extended mag.  It also doesn't scream "gun nut" if you ever have to defend your defensive actions in court.  Sadly, all my guns were lost in the boating accident.

Unless you plan to be with your wife and child at all times to protect them, whatever home defense solution you choose your wife needs to not only be 100% on-board and comfortable with you doing it, but 100% trained and maintained on not only how to use it but when to use it herself..As well as having fully thought through how killing a person ('justified' or not) can affect you and your life. So that you don't become a statistic, also consider things like the wide variety of scenarios that result in so many accidental firearm deaths occur every year, especially those of which it was the very people the firearm was purchased to protect...And that if anybody in the house has ever battled depression with thoughts of suicide, easy access to firearms may not be in their best interest either.

In my humble opinion, the vast majority of people who casually consider firearms as their 'introduction' to home and self defense are far better off with numerous cans of high quality pepper spray, strategically sized and located throughout the house/car/stroller/etc and on their person.  I believe it's extremely underrated and underrecommended. Consider that you can legally pepper spray the E36 M3 out of somebody before you can even legally punch them, let alone shoot them, and it's just as effective on animals as it is people. A good starting point is the 1.3% OC family of sprays canisters from Defense Tech.  Much like getting into firearms though, I also would highly recommend both and strongly encourage  both adults to take a 'pepper spray' class as well. My wife actually really found the class to be hugely beneficial, and came out of it feeling more aware and more confident in her ability to protect herself and our child whenever and wherever trouble might occur.

pheller said:

I'd be more inclined to install outdoor cameras, motion security lights, secure the doorways, take walks around the neighborhood and meet my neighbors. 

I'm a big believer in motion sensitive lights. They've been shown to be more effective than dusk-til-dawn lights because nobody likes a sudden spotlight, they're really convenient when you get home and they limit light pollution. All good. The only problem we have is the coyotes set them off

Tweakers breaking into houses are on the rise here so even my wife finally wanted too learn how to use a firearm safely. I'm a firm believer in it but I also believe in safety. My children are old enough they have started learning themselves. 

Get something your comfortable with and spend time at a range or some were else safe too shoot and practice. I recommend a safe with a biometric or pin code lock. Trying to hit a keyhole in the dark isnt a quick solution. 

A good home defense round is also a plus, you can certainly use a standard fmj target round though. 

The best home defense we have is by far our 80lb lab/heeler mix. She's a giant softee but strangers don't know that and she certainly sounds mean.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

In that's another advantage to lights and cameras. They can tell you who or what is coming around your property. That helps mitigate some of that exaggerated threat response, so you don't get paranoid and overreact when a police officer is crossing through your yard after reports of a loose dog. 

You might find, that instead of a potential burglar, that a neighbor kid with disabilities is wandering around the neighborhood. Or, rather than a coyote, you've got a bear digging through trashcans. Or that a skunk is making a home under your shed. All of these things make your home more your domain, rather than being this little box someone is always trying to invade.

I always argue against the shotgun.  Loud, huge recoil, long, impossible to conceal when answering the door.  They usually proceed you around corners, super SLOW to reload and limited capacity of 4 to 8 shells for most common types.  For those new to home defense guns I would say a 9mm with a 10 to 17 round capacity with a rail for a light and a manual safety that you dont have to use if you dont want.  Something like the Smith and Wesson M&P series that's available with a manual safety.  Reasonable recoil and capacity for size, if you need to have a look around in the yard or answer the door and dont want to go charging around the yard in your boxers and slippers with a shotgun, handguns are easy to hold behind your back or in a robe pocket.

If money, training, capacity and caliber are not restrictive my fave is the FNH, FNX45 Tactical with a Streamlight, RMR, and a suppressor.  Flat dark earth with a Talon grip in black.  15+1 of .45 ACP? Hell yeah, that makes me smile and feel warm and fuzzy. 

FNX:My FNH FNS9c is the best gun I've ever shot for me.  

My FNS (comes with 2 12s and this 17 rounder)

In reply to pheller :

You most certainly can have a gun in ALL of those instances.  But I agree that anyone that feels like you should think twice before getting one.  

Shotgun vs pistol debate aside, what do you guys think of the Kel Tec KSG? 

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

I have a Vortex SPARC on a 12 guage

I want to pipe in on night sights.

"Know what you're shooting at and what's behind it" is one of the laws of gun safety. There is a whole argument to be made about shooting at something you can't see versus using a light and all that. I've come down on the side of caution as I have a teenager in the house and remembering sneaking out after curfew myself and will give away whatever tactical advantage shining a light on somebody will take away from me.  

You don't aim a shot gun. You point it.

 Similar with a handgun,  point it and keep pulling the trigger.

Often reported.   Officer fired 20 rounds.    One wounded the offender.

 Don't be fooled by the TV shows.

EastCoastMojo said:

Shotgun vs pistol debate aside, what do you guys think of the Kel Tec KSG? 

I think it is really cool.  I don't know if I would want that as a personal defense weapon.  Well, actually, I think I would not until it is really tested out.  But it's cool. 

Now one of these:

is a fully proven design.  I think it would be really good for a in the house defense weapon.  That whole bird shot first, then buck thing.  Maybe a slug last.

EastCoastMojo said:

Shotgun vs pistol debate aside, what do you guys think of the Kel Tec KSG? 

While I'm not a dyed in the wool Kel Tec hater, they have a reputation, and while they make a few neat things (I personally dig their bull-pups, and .22 Mag autos) they earned that reputation.  I'd have a hard time relying on a Kel Tec anything as my go to home defense choice.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. Chuck's been longing for one, and while I am aware of KelTec's rep I was thinking the KSG might be OK. I do like the Mossberg personally.

In reply to EastCoastMojo :

No experience with the ksg, but my most recent acquisition was a 9mm Sub2000 for M&P magazines. Gun has been dead nuts reliable and fun to shoot. Clearly built to a price point but nothing the M*Carbo catalog couldn't fix. Running a Vortex Sparc AR and an XS big dot as the backup. Highly recommend to anyone looking for a fun plinker, truck gun, or home defense alternative.

aircooled said:

NordicSaab said:

Single action revolvers are the safest guns available IMHO....

 

Interesting suggestion Mr Eastwood.  Do you mean double action? When was the last time a single action revolver was made? (A single action would certainly be VERY safe though, unless if you fan it, then you can hit everything except what you want to hit!)

You might want to get VERY aware of your local laws.  Just talked to an inlaw and he was under the impression that it was legal to shoot someone who is on your property without permission... this is in CALIFORNIA!!!   I told him he is very likely in error and he said his farther told him that... who is also in CA... who apparently has a CC permit... and who is know to be very paranoid about crime!....

I am pretty sure in CA, you have to wait until the knife actually enters your body before you can legally shoot....

Theres probably one being made right now. Its my self defence choice when im in the woods too (Blackhawk 45colt 325gr Buffalo Bore rounds)

Also first thing i would do is define what you are protecting yourself from. Bear? People? Other wildlife? These make huge differences in what i would recommend.

2nd go to a gun shop and handle everything you can get your hands on. Personally i hate the way glocks feel and im meh about 1911s so i have odd tastes.

After you figure these out we can get down to brass tacks on what you should seriously look for. I have several choices for a defence gun depending on the task from the aforrmentioned Blackhawk SA, to a 12 gauge pump gun.

There are whole loads of opinions on the subject but at the end of the day.....its your gun, your choice, and the most important thing is you feel comfortable using it. My very very small mother settled on a weird self defence gun, a Kel Tec PMR30 because she hated recoil, wanted something light and wanted more than a few rounds in the gun. Worked for her and she loved it.

My personal opinions are 9mm fullsize or medium size is usually a great choice for a lot of people, i prefer the 45colt to the 44 mag, im not a fan of the 20 gauge because its usually about the same weight and frame as a 12 gauge and its far easier to download a 12gauge to a 20 gauge than the other way around plus ammo is far easier to find. I think pistol carbines are great and Hi Point makes a great one that is super easy to use. And ive taught a few people to shoot on an AR and find it to be a great all around weapon(mine is a 10mm actually)

EastCoastMojo said:

Shotgun vs pistol debate aside, what do you guys think of the Kel Tec KSG? 

I've shot them a few times. They're fine. A bit on the heavy side when fully loaded. There were some minor issues with the first generation guns, my understanding is those problems have since been fixed.

It's one of those guns though where you shoot it a few times then really only pull it out of the safe when you have friends over for them to shoot. Sort of like a .50 BMG.

We moved from the suburbs to the middle of the woods 4 years ago. I have had a 1911 .45 for many years and kept it in a nightstand(no kids). When we moved to the “middle of nowhere”, I added a few firearms to the household. Now, every room (n the house has a handgun. The .45 is within 4 feet of where we watch TV. The .380 is in the kitchen. My carry piece is a .327 magnum and with me all of the time. She has a .22 in her nightstand just in case.

When we moved, I wanted something strictly for home defense and to keep in the bedroom. I looked at shotguns of all calibers and barrel  lengths. Against what many others suggested, I ended up buying a VERY short barrel .410 shoutgun. I purchased a Taurus Public Defender and couldn’t be happier. With the right loads, it’s lethal. 

Just my $0.02

Lots to consider here.  I was in a similar situation, interested in guns for self-defense and home defense.  I also had a teen and a small child in the house.  Here's what I did: 

1. Tested. I rented guns and tried them out. I shot .22, .380, 9mm, .40 and .45...ok and a .50 cal.  I tried pocket, sub-compact, compact and full frame from most of the major manufacturers.  Some pistols that I liked on paper did not feel good in my hand.  Others surprised me.  My favorite small guns were from Sig Sauer and overall the Glock was the best to shoot, hands-down. I also liked options from Beretta very much. 

2. Planned.  I needed to guarantee that no kid would EVER access or fire any gun of mine.  So I researched and invested in a quality firearm safe and wrote down and refined my safety and storage protocols.  You have to defeat 3 layers of security to get to my gun, and once in the safe, you have to insert the magazine, chamber a round, turn off the safety and make a dedicated pull on the trigger.  

3. Prepared. I considered heavily if I would be ready to take a life to protect myself or my family.  This is not a step to skip over or take lightly.  I considered all less-than-lethal options, read the legal implications in my state, and did some soul-searching. I also discussed it with my wife...she is not a gun person and made the decision that she did not want to use it. This is important, if she isn't comfortable with it she should be in the same category as the kids. When I was comfortable with my decision, I too the next step.   

4. Purchased.  Soapbox: I think it should be a law that you can't buy a gun without proof of having a safe and knowing how to use it if you have kids.  I went with a Beretta PX4 Storm SubCompact in .40 cal. The reasons are many, but I wanted a mechanical safety, take-down power, compact size and a great fit to my hand. Its an amazing weapon in all of its sizes, I highly recommend it.  

5. Trained.  I took a handgun safety course through the NRA, I took a concealed carry course and got my concealed carry permit, and I went to the range.  (And I still go to the range on a regular basis.)  Having a loaded and ready-to-fire gun in the bedside table would be fast, but that doesn't work with little ones.  So I trained and can confidently insert a mag, rack the slide, and flip off the safety while half-asleep in the dark. I can also get to and open the gun safe in a few seconds, even though it is out of sight and out of reach of the kids and locked up tight. 

This may sound like a lot, but to me, guns are no joke.  I also revisit my safety protocols from time to time.  My teen is off at college and my baby is now a little kid, so I have to update things to keep pace.  I will change them again when he is a precocious teen.  I also had to revise them when I added a second gun, a Taurus Curve that is a GREAT every day concealed carry FWIW. 

As for the shotgun vs pistol vs revolver debate, I felt that even a combat-length shotgun would be too unwieldy in the tight confines of my home and they require a much larger gun safe.  I also wanted to go to the range and shoot as a hobby, so I wanted a magazine.  I did like the idea of scattershot and a bit less lethality of say, a 410 round. I did test something that I thought might be a good compromise, the Taurus Judge.  Reliability and ease of use of a revolver with the point and shoot simplicity of a shotgun.  

A lot of gun lovers here. It’s kind of hard to get balanced feedback from a group of people who are strongly on one side of the equation. 

The OP apparently has no experience at all with guns. Recommending a gun for home defense to a person in this situation may not be the best advice, because there are so many other alternative good home security methods.  

I am skilled in handling a weapon. I’ve spent a lot of time shooting, and I’m a good shot. I live in a rural area so having a gun may make sense. 

However, I do not have a gun in the house. I have 5 kids and a wife who is very opposed to handling a weapon. This has always felt like a recipe for disaster. I don’t need curious kids wanting to play with my gun, or my wife pulling a weapon she is uncomfortable with when the best she should probably do is call 911. 

All of my kids know how to handle a gun, and are capable shots. Doesn’t change the fact that they have curious friends, etc. 

We have solid security systems, and my kids have been well trained in self defense.  

Others may make other decisions, but I have never regretted not having a weapon in my house while raising a family  

A gun won’t protect you. Security has to do with your attitude, and an overall approach to developing skills and safe methods. 

Some of the things being said here are nuts, a lot are just wrong.  This is America and you can deal with guns however is legal for you and yours.  Me personally? I sleep better knowing my wife and 13 year old son can shoot the nads off a gnat at 15 feet with a handgun, and that when my son is out with my wife, she has her firearm in arms reach to defend them both.  There are some truly evil people out there, I hope none of them get to yall and your pepper spray, because that doesn't stop squat.  

I confess I did not read all through this, and presume you have carefully considered getting a gun and conclude you want to do so.  I suggest you go shooting with some friends who have guns, or rent at the range to see what you like.  You have to practice, your wife needs to know gun safety, even if she never intends to fire it.  When the kids are old enough, if there are guns in the house, they have to know gun safety.  Your kids should know about fun safety even if you don't have a gun, maybe especially if you don't.

Oh yeah, go read the thread about locking your doors and windows

NordicSaab said:

jharry3 said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to NordicSaab :

"A Mossberg cocking should scare away any potential intruder". This is, to me, bad information. If you have a dog that has a deep, large bark and someone is STILL trying to break in, the sound of a shotgun isn't going to change that. They've already made that choice. Now, my dogs are Bob Costascats but they SOUND viscous. They're main purpose (outside of being my fur babies) are to wake me to take care of the problem. you come into my house at night with an 80lb german shepherd going apeE36 M3 you're not right in the head and nothing I can say, or any noise I can make is going to make that more clear. 

I totally agree.  Racking the slide tells the bad guy where you are while you are not sure where he is.  This allows him to change his tactical plan instead of blundering into range.  And remember that when the enemy is in range so are you.

Really surprised at some of this replies RE: racking a slide being a bad idea.  Most burglars are not that smart, otherwise they would be a different line of work.  I agree that if you have an intruder, who is brave enough to enter a house with large dogs, carrier a fire arm, and has the ability to demonstrate tactical prowess, generating noise of any kind is not the best idea.  However, if this is the person you have entering your home then you must be a special case.  

From what I have seen, most home intruders are just dumb punks.   

Best advice I have seen in this thread is get what you are comfortable with.  

I guess some people think Seal Team Meth Head will be breaking in