Learn me project manager position

I was offered a position today as a project manager for a local architectural millwork company. 

Its a pay cut.

Its a benefit cut.

My current job will not exist much longer, and im burnout on mental health and social work. So, the pay and benefits may not be that relevant. Its a 15k a year cut on pay though.....

Regardless of pay and benefits,  id liek to get a broader understanding of the job type, and the advancement potential. Google is scary, and the employer paints what seems to e a realistic picture. 

But here is where i come for tbe truth, as well as nitty gritty experiences. 

So, what is construction project management really like?

I'm not a professional, but I got voluntold into managing a 2+ million dollar tank farm and chemical processing expansion for my current company. We're in the final months of it. It's like herding angry, alcoholic cats while an alligator tries to eat your ass. 

But it is not wholly unrewarding.

I'm sure others have a better, more professional assessments. Best of luck either way. 

Not sure on construction PM, but if it is like most PM jobs...

Know that George Strait song The Fireman where he's going around town putting out old flames?  You'll also have new flames to put out.

I have been one. Mostly in my case it involved babysitting trades.if it is like most construction, you are the one who has to decide what order the work is done, how long each phase will take, what trade can work at the same time as other trades and who needs the site to themselves, you schedule equipment and supply orders and deliveries  and when trades will arrive and how long they need, and you quality check their work. You are the one who wears it if there are construction delays, if they fail to complete their part on time, or if they fail to show, cancel or put you off because the other job they are working is behind. Actually you wear it for every single thing that goes wrong. But I like it. Busy, high energy, lots to do and think about and very satisfying when everything comes together. As you develop a relationship with trades it gets much easier.

The only experience I have with PMO is when I worked at a huge mega corp. The PMO guys would shepherd everyone through a project, get lots of face time with execs, get praise from the execs for everyone else's work, then get promoted up because the execs knew their names. Seemed like a good track to me, darn near switched into the field myself. Most of the work seemed to involve updating spreadsheets, meeting with the teams for updates, and spending hours with the execs to capture their "vision".

I can't see a downside to this besides the salary change.  It will, if nothing else, look like management / leadership experience if you decide in a couple of years to jump back out again, and will probably provide some good stories at interview time if it isn't your cup of tea.  Agreed with slefain that PM's seem to get promoted at a decent rate when I've obseved them in corporate environments.

I worked as an engineer on construction projects.  I'd say bearmtnmartin's assessment of the project manager job from your side of construction is pretty accurate.  There will be a lot of juggling of who gets their orders first.  You'll get contractors who suddenly need their millwork RIGHT NOW.  You may or may not be responsible for hounding them to pay their bills on time too, that's something to ask.

Project management is a major component of my job, manufacturing side though so not sure how construction may compare. Not always my favorite part, but it can be very rewarding at times.

Bearmtnmartin sums it up pretty well. When everything comes together and works well, you feel like a maestro conducting a symphony. But usually it doesn't, in some form or fashion. I'm often reminded of my grandfather's corrolary to Murphy's Law: "Anything that does go wrong, will go wrong at the worst possible time." The key to being really successful at it, IMO, is learning to foresee what the pitfalls will be and having a contingency plan in mind for when they inevitably do occur. It will require an abiliy to juggle many tasks at once, plan and budget carefully, and sometimes seemingly just will things into being. And always budget like 3x the amount of time you expect a task to take. One of the hardest parts is having to depend on people over whom you have no direct authority, and motivational/people skills can be key.

There are lots of resources out there for learning the tools of the job. I did a one day seminar years ago that did a really nice, basic overview. And get familiar with MS project. Also certifications like a (motherberkeleying ) PMP certificate. It's a good career path, IMO. Broadly applicable to a lot of industries (construction, manufacturing, software, ect.) and you can make a pretty decent living at it. With the way you're able to juggle multiple car projects and get tremendous amounts of E36 M3 done, you might be really well suited.

I've spent all of my career in various Project Engineer, Project Manager, and now the manager of the PM group in an office for a top 3 Global EPC company.  I started in the construction side after college, and then moved to the engineering side of the business.  Have run some small cap alliances, but the last period has been more Large Cap ($100-500M) size projects.

I have PMP direct reports, but I don't personally have that certification, but I do have my PE license, which is fairly unique for PMs at least in our company.  The PMP is helpful for some of the "book" part of the PM world, but not much help in the real world of dealing with team members, clients, and subcontractors in my experience.  I know when I'm interviewing PMs that if they start with "I am a PMP", they may not have much useful practical experience if they immediately start with the PMP discussion, kind of like interviewing engineers that start with, "I'm a PE".

In simplistic terms, I always tell people that want to become a PM, it's generally all about managing scope, schedule and budget.  The usual tools, Excel, Project, P6, and any specific cost software (there are lots of them). Although for big projects you have a team of resources to help manage the cost and schedule, including using the tools, I haven't used Primavera personally since the P3 days.  I can teach someone the tools pretty easily, the PM mindset is harder to teach, people either have it or they don't.   We have lots of engineers who want to be PMs (as they strangely see it as the path to fame and fortune), but being a good engineer doesn't mean you'll be a great PM.

You'll spend most of your time problem solving.  How to win a job, how to complete a job (on schedule/on budget) and how to get paid for a job.  If you like problem solving, it can be a rewarding career path.  But you have to like dealing with problems, ultimately that's what you get paid to do:  problem team members, problem clients, problem subcontractors, technical problems, team in-fighting, corporate expectation problems, corporate lawyers, problem AHJs, etc.

In terms of career path, there are lifetime PMs.  People that enjoy the hands-on Project Management role.  Often they manage larger or larger projects, become project executives, or become the go-to "problem project fixer guy" of management.   Some will have direct reports, but many of our senior PMs have no interest in managing people directly.  Even in a company our size, the list of PMs that management will put on a $2B size project is pretty short.  Certainly some move on to other positions, Sales, Ops Manager, or we lose some to our clients who hire them to manage companies like us.  

Well, im not certain if this would be considered manufacturing or construction PM, or both. What they discussed was mostly about the in house manufacturing management  and then general contractor management and making sure that its actually put in properly. But they emphasized the manufacturing aspect in deadlines, costs, making sure what was specified actually meets what was ordered and needed, etc. 

I have weak excel skills, no notable experience with cad/cam, no real experience with commercial construction, but people and problems im good with. 

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Please keep it coming!

I am a firm believer in the phase/gate method of project management. ( althought it includes product development)

Get a baseball bat. Drive several large and long spikes through the big end. Then wrap electrified barbed wire around the same end.

When morons who could not be bothered to attend the early stage gate meetings and do their job, start arriving with project scope creep, apply bat liberally. 

The next project will go much smoother.

Managing projects is easy, just lay out the steps and give each one a deadline. Lots of pretty software packages to make you think it is easy and draw pretty charts and graphs.

Managing staff, budget, contractors, suppliers, customers, government regulatory ass-hats and hindsight driven senior management is the real job. No software for that part of the job. It is best if your people think you are a bit scary.

When project managing, you take pride in your teams achievements, not necessarily your own.  Your goal is to use the talents of the team to get the work done and support their agendas, not to continuously try to be the smartest person in the meeting.  A lot of project mangers fail here.

NOHOME said:

When project managing, you take pride in your teams achievements, not necessarily your own.  Your goal is to use the talents of the team to get the work done and support their agendas, not to continuously try to be the smartest person in the meeting.  A lot of project mangers fail here.

Some good stuff here.  I've got PMs who have the "here I come to save the day" attitude, and it's like they create a crisis to the be the superhero.  I always tell the young ones, if your team doesn't know what you do all day since the project is running so smoothly, you are doing great.

If you’re generally organized, good at planning and thinking outside the box, communicate well and are able to be a people person chances are you’d be a good PM.   It’s a major part of my job, I’ve been doing it for close to 27 years now.  I have no formal training per se, mostly mentoring from the more senior guys and learning as I progressed into larger projects.  I’m pretty squared away by nature so the organizing and planning was already in place to a large degree.  Our niche is design build / major system upgrades that often involve burning the bridge behind you / failure is not an option work over a weekend where the client leaves on Friday us starting demo on their old equipment and returns Monday morning to an all new HVAC system.  So the planning part is pretty important.  It’s no doubt helpful that I have hands on field experience in the trade as well as an engineering degree.  

I’d recommend looking at this as an opportunity to get a foot in the door PM wise.  With time you’ll likely get to know a number of the GCs.  If you’re doing well by them I’d be shocked if it didn’t open doors for advancement.   Good PMs are thin on the ground in our region and will always have work.  Go for it and good luck!

From the view of one of the cats, it looks as if the herding cats description is spot on. 
That being said, I don't understand the cut in pay part? In traveling construction, as an I&C Tech, I used to make $35/hr and up. And my yearly pay was never more than a forth of the PM's on those jobs. Now I can no longer travel, I make a lot less than that! 
Either that company it trying to low ball ya, or your making  a whole lota mullah 

Based on your build threads, I think you'd be a great fit.  I've been a Project Manager for 15+ years, and I appreciate the fact that you start with a plan, take on manageable chunks of work, and always work through problems in a logical manner.  You also apply what you've learned from your other projects into your current project, which is a critical skill for a PM.

Typically PMs are pretty well compensated (I'm in the IT world), so I agree with the comment that I'd expect it to be more of a lateral or even a step up as opposed to a step down in pay.  With that said, though, I have no idea what you're making right now, and salaries can vary widely across the country.

If you're seeing the writing on the wall where you are now, I think it's a good move to explore it.  I think you'll be great at it, and I don't see the need for project managers decreasing in the future.

In reply to 03Panther :

Pay cut is probably a relative thing. Im at the very top of the pay scale for my degree in mental health. Im at 55k a year.

This company offered me 40. They do in house training, and are a 2.5m a year company from my town. 

Dunno if thats in line for a new guy or not....

I'd try to negotiate the salary up if you can. From a hiring perspective, it's good to see a candidate's negotiating skills. Especially since you'll be doing a lot of negotiation (not necessarily all financial) as a PM.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

40 is WAY low. But I thought about it some... the traveling contract job market is hurting so bad from many of the furher's decisions, that I doubt I'll ever make it back. That's got to be affecting more than just my wages. So maybe not, after ya negotiate a slightly better offer. Yes, I'm sure your reaction is part of the interview!

Also to consider... I a Journeyman. I make OT for extra hours. That level is salary. And I would imagine 60 - 110 hr weeks would be the normal. I know it is for the middle guys. Not sure about top dog, but I suspect...

If it sounds appealing, it's a stepping stone!

I only did short term contracts for over 20 years. I ain't for everyone, but I mis it, and agree with above. I think it right in your wheelhouse. 

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

That is way too low for what they are asking. Either they are ripping people off or this is just another example of our national economy devolving to where companies need impoverished workers and rich clients in order to survive. If they truly are lowballing everyone in the building, add managing disgruntled workers to the list.

I have to wonder what they are paying the talent? Engineers dont come to work for 30 some k/year that I am aware of

Wanted to add that the pay is way too low for the responsibilities and stress that will come with that job. Im not saying don't take the job because it does sound like a cool position that you could be a great fit for. 

$40k is the bottom line number that would make the hiring manager look like a hero. You need to negotiate. This is a candidate's market and I'd doubt they have anyone else lined up that has your skills and personality. I would nicely let them know you're making $55k a year and you need to be as close to that as possible or you're moving on to other opportunities. 

I'm sure there's the latest excuses as to why the pay isn't where it should be.  There's always the latest excuses though.  That kind of pay cut would be brutal.

NOHOME's longer post about what it means to be a PM seemed pretty spot on.  Reminded me that while I don't want to be a PM I respect what a good one can add.  And I rarely see good ones.  Most of the time they seem very content to play in MS Project, write emails that start with "I don't understand why..." and shop online for Corvettes. 

Where I work currently there are zero PM's that are actually 100% tasked with that role.  It's not great. 

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

I actually retired because upper management was insisting on more digital micromanagement of projects to the point where minutes of the engineer's day had to be declared and measured at the end of the day; about the fifth time they had gone down such a rabbit hole and I just could not face it again.

My take on all of the project management software is that it all features and few benefits. Nobody has come up with a better dashboard system than a giant wall covered in task- defining postie notes with task and deadlines. 

Project budgeting, while a subset of the job,  is a subject for a whole different conversation.

Another thing to be aware of is that many companies are run from the top by the owner or the CEO. In these cases, PM is more of a paid scapegoat position than anything else. 

Yeah, I'd sweat that pay cut a bit. Not too long ago, I went from 80K a year to just below 30K. I'm frugal, resourceful, etc. It won't be a big deal, right? Well, in my case, I spent a couple of years living in the red, and that fatigued me way more than I could have imagined. Our situations are definitely different- me: moving while changing jobs, you: teenaged daughter, plus I've got ten years on you, but still. Just something to consider. Can you negotiate higher pay? Employers love confidence.

I'm with the others, that $40k seems low, thats less than $20/hr.  Most of our subcontractors have trouble finding people to fill the bottom positions and they pay more than that that.  But I also understand that pay scales and job markets are extremely geographic.  

Another common situation over the last decade is companies moving people to salary positions who don't really meet the litmus tests the IRS produces for OT exemption.  Not saying this is the case here (as I've never known a PM who didn't meet the tests), but it seemed pretty common in small business in the construction trades for the owners to push people to salary, whether they met the qualifications or not. That seems to be a legal industry all on it's own.  I know of a few cases where companies got into trouble for both this or defining employees as independent contractors (to avoid benefits) when the technically did not meet the definition.

Best of luck and kudos to looking for opportunities to further your career path!

I'm not a PM, but I occasionally had to PM projects and often work with some awesome PMs in my current role. Herding a bunch of reluctant cats while under fire from all sides is a pretty apt description. The planning part is one thing - and there is help with software etc as mentioned - but the really good PMs I worked with distinguish themselves because of their ability to work with people. You know, those annoying irrational meatbags.

A good PM is worth their weight in precious metal and it's one of those skills that tends to transfer between industries if you are really good at it - kinda like sales, if you're good at it you generally don't have to worry about finding work. Also like sales, there are a lot of people out there who are utterly atrocious at being a project manager.

The other part I'd recommend you look at closer is what the job responsibilities really are. In some places, PM is a fancy title for "gantt chart updater" where you get to record managment's overpromises and underdeliveries while at the same time getting yelled at, whereas in others you get to actually run projects from start to finish and make sure that E36 M3 gets done in a realistic timeframe and on a realistic budget.

I'd agree with a lot of the other posters in this thread that $40k feels low for the latter type of job. Is there any variable compensation that comes with it that's tied to targets at your work, or is it a "you can work all the hours you don't want for the low, low price of $40k"?