Learn me: total loss & diminished value claims

My poor GTI got sandwiched while stopped for a red light on Monday.  I'm uninjured, so no worries there.

With that in mind, I'm not sure if it's going to come out as a total loss or not.  Less evident in the photos is that the driver's door won't open, and the hatch has a gap that wasn't there before.  Is a total loss something like 75% of the retail value of the car?  That's still a lot.  I have a loan and owe about what the retail value of the car is, so if they repair it, i'd likely be upside down by a good bit.  I presume I can make a claim for diminished value, has anyone dealt with that before?  Learn me GRM!

Not sure exactly what year the car is and how many miles it has on it.  If you have a few other photos, that would help, because I can't see the rear of the car or the left fender area.  Door not opening may be as simple as the fender is shoved back into it.  Hatch gap could be one of a few things, or several things. 

If the car isn't totaled (I don't think it is, but really would like to see the rear and left fender), then yes, you can make a diminished value claim.  You can't make it until the repairs are complete.  Do not look at the dollar amount of the repair, it's irrelevant.  You have to look at the actual damage to the vehicle...cosmetic or structural?  Your DV claim will be based on the retail value of the car, not trade in, so don't go to the insurance carrier with an argument about how much you'd get if you trade the car in.  There is also no case law that says how much you should get paid.  Each carrier sets their own guidelines.  Typically speaking, you'd get something like 2-7% of the cash value of the car, depending on damages, etc... 

Klayfish obviously knows more about this. But I'll chime in with my experience from a total loss perspective. I got rear ended 2 months ago, I have a base model 16 Versa sedan. All values pointed to the car being worth $8-9k before the accident, the final repairs ended up being $5600. I was told by the  body shop and the insurance company that the total cost of repair had to exceed 80% of the vehicles value in Texas. I was also told the same thing about the 2-7% of the cash value, which in my case wasn't going to amount to a whole lot so I just didn't deal with it. The most frustrating thing for me is, I owe $9,800 on the car and I'll be lucky if it's worth $6k with the repairs that were made. So i'll be upside down on it for awhile. But there are worse things in life. Good luck and glad you're ok. 

Klayfish said:

Not sure exactly what year the car is and how many miles it has on it.  If you have a few other photos, that would help, because I can't see the rear of the car or the left fender area.  Door not opening may be as simple as the fender is shoved back into it.  Hatch gap could be one of a few things, or several things. 

GTI is a '12, 66k.   I snapped a few pics this morning.  https://imgur.com/a/qquiv

The fender is definitely shoved back into the door.

I measured the hatch gap (between the glass and the C pillar), and it's 4mm on the driver's side and 6mm on the passenger's side.  

Thanks for the advice / info on diminished value.  I expect the car will probably be repaired, so I'll keep that in mind.

Door won't open because of fender it will get fixed. Door won't open because the door frame is bent that car is totaled straight up. 

red_stapler said:

Klayfish said:

Not sure exactly what year the car is and how many miles it has on it.  If you have a few other photos, that would help, because I can't see the rear of the car or the left fender area.  Door not opening may be as simple as the fender is shoved back into it.  Hatch gap could be one of a few things, or several things. 

GTI is a '12, 66k.   I snapped a few pics this morning.  https://imgur.com/a/qquiv

The fender is definitely shoved back into the door.

I measured the hatch gap (between the glass and the C pillar), and it's 4mm on the driver's side and 6mm on the passenger's side.  

Thanks for the advice / info on diminished value.  I expect the car will probably be repaired, so I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks for the pictures.  I'd agree the car is probably repairable.  Not quite sure why the drivers door won't open, the fender gap doesn't really look THAT bad...and I don't think it's a unibody totally berkeleyed issue either.  To do that would normally require a rear impact (or front) that obliterates the front/rear of the car.  The passenger compartment is very rigid, it's hard to cause damage that far back ("A" pillar area and back) from a front/rear impact.  On the front end, obviously the cosmetics need replacing.  Rad support is likely toast (not sure if it's one piece or several), likely some damage to left apron.  Rear end is really hard to say.  The massive rear bumper cover that most cars have can hide a lot of nasty surprises.  They'll need to pull that cover off to get a good look at the rear body panel, look at the floor, pull the tail lights out to check that area.  I don't see anything majorly alarming, but would not be surprised if the body panel need replacing and maybe some floor repair. 

You're welcome to keep me posted once the estimate comes in if you want and I'll give you feedback.

my wife got rear ended in her Miata, not a lot of damage, they replaced the rear bumper and some of the parts that it hides.

I called the other persons insurance company about a diminished value claim. They at first claimed that diminished value wasn't a thing. I asked for $1,000, because why not. We eventually agreed to $250, which was $250 more than I realistically expected. I had not heard about diminished value before.

I feel a lot better about the repairs today.  Got the initial estimate from my insurance adjuster today and dropped her off at the body shop.  $5800 so far, and that's before they see what's disassembled, and the estimator wrote it up with halogen lights instead of the adaptive xenons.  I think 10,900 is about where they'd think about totaling it, so we should be well below that still.

Dropped it off at the body shop, and I'm pretty impressed with the place I chose.  GTI will be in good company with the various high end stuff they were working on.  They're going to pull it apart next week and give insurance a final estimate.  

I'm going to see about getting a month's payment as diminished value from their insurance once I get the car back.  That seems like it would be reasonable from what y'all are saying about it. 

This adjuster says repairable. 

DV depends on the state you reside in. GA does DV automatically on every claim. Where I live/work in PA DV pretty  much doesn't exist. Its very hard to collect because the state doesn't really recognize it or have a calculation formula like GA does. I did have a friend successfully get something from another carrier on a recent  hit but as a rule we just deny them.

DV is kind of a thorny subject and I remain undecided personally. If a car is properly repaired there really isn't any diminished value...except for the advent of Carfax and all the half-assed nonsense that comes with that (I have a problem with Carfax and the public's perception that it is somehow the Word Of God).

ddavidv said:

This adjuster says repairable. 

DV depends on the state you reside in. GA does DV automatically on every claim. Where I live/work in PA DV pretty  much doesn't exist. Its very hard to collect because the state doesn't really recognize it or have a calculation formula like GA does. I did have a friend successfully get something from another carrier on a recent  hit but as a rule we just deny them.

DV is kind of a thorny subject and I remain undecided personally. If a car is properly repaired there really isn't any diminished value...except for the advent of Carfax and all the half-assed nonsense that comes with that (I have a problem with Carfax and the public's perception that it is somehow the Word Of God).

Hey man, stop spreading ugly rumors about insurance...   Actually, GA doesn't have a calculation formula.  There was one floating around some years ago that insurance companies used and claimed it was GA approved.  The state DOI put a stop to that real fast.  There is no formula or calculation...just like all other states, it's up to the carrier how to determine value of a DV claim (if any).  The only thing that makes GA different is that DV claims are allowed on 1st party claims.  In other states, it's specifically excluded on the policy. 

What blows my mind is that some carriers...State Farm I'm looking at you...just automatically give DV on all claims in GA.  Guess they got so scared by what was going on a few years ago that they just decided to try to do preemptive strikes.  Makes no sense to me.  I'm in GA now, but did the first 17 years of my career in PA.  We don't do DV any different than in PA.  If it's warranted, an offer is considered.  If it's not, then it's denied. 

And yes, you're spot on about the whole nightmare Carfax single handedly created.

Update.  I don't have to worry about diminished value claims, because the GTI is totalled.  I'm making out better than I expected, so it's on to the next car.

You'll be missed GTI:

What did they find to put it over the limit?

sevenracer said:

What did they find to put it over the limit?

I didn't get to see the supplemental estimate to say for sure.  Big ticket items not on the initial estimate that were mentioned in conversation included the  composite radiator support,  rear exhaust section, adaptive xenon headlights instead of halogen,  additional floor repairs in the rear,  bumper bars, 5mph foams, etc.

Seems to me if you get the car repaired correctly, a claim for diminished value should not have much merit, unless of course it is a rare or unusual vehicle.

Toebra, let me give you an example.

I got my own appraisal done on a Jetta about 4 years ago that was 10 months old when hit.  You pay a few hundred bucks and then get the letter from the appraiser to send to their insurance company. The independent appraiser said it was diminished in value $1800.

Their insurance company offered, $182. Nope! Then they offered $450. Nope, I'm going to take you to court, letter written. They send out their own appraiser, sure enough he agrees.

They send me a check for $1800 bucks. Almost 5k in damage on my 10 month old car. If I were selling the car on the market and somebody else was selling a virtually identical car but doesn't have an accident on it's record, they would likely get more money that me. My asset is worth LESS because somebody ran into it. Even fixed there is a stigma so you fight for that money to make up for that loss you may take later down the road when you don't get as much as you'd like for your car because "Carfax says it was hit". It doesn't matter how well the repair is completed as long as some valuations deem it worth less simply because it now has a "record".

When I originally asked about this same topic on the board about 4 years ago, loads of people said I was crazy, selfish, or a flat out idiot for even trying this with a "lowly" VW. Had I listened to those, who had no experience in the matter, I would have missed out on $1800. I'll take being called an idiot by anonymous internet folks if it means I get paid almost $2k for an asset that is worth less and it's not my fault.