Learn Me: Turntables

Considering getting a turntable. Experience or thoughts? Is the music quality really better/different?

I think it might be fun to have one in the brewery. We've got a pretty good sound system. However, there's frequently a lot of background noise of pumps and such, and it's usually a rather warm and humid environment, which I suspect might not be best for records.

Listening to albums at home would likely be a different matter.

Thoughts?

In a large, loud space like a brewery, I do not see the point at all--unless you have a little hipster-ish nook with a small listening space. But even there you won't hear the difference. 

I'm not even sure that I hear the difference. I think I do, or I like to think I do, but I really just like the experience. 

I have a pioneer PL-510A that I enjoy. The receiver and amp driving the speakers will be more important than the turntable imo. Is the sound system there tube or solid state? 

Lots of background noise would probably mean you won't hear that much, if any difference from a CD and the CD is holding up better in the environment.

It's different at home, a good vinyl record played through a good system using a good turntable can sound different. Well, a bit. IME Pro-Ject makes good turntables, some of them even reasonably priced (keep in mind they don't come with a cartridge and a good cartridge isn't cheap).

I guess I need to listen to some vinyl on a proper system. 

But most modern recordings are digital, so I don't really see how converting from digital to analog (and depending on your setup) possibly back to digital "Adds warmth and depth" to the recording.

Other than getting me to pay $22-35 for an album vs $12 for a CD.

I have several albums on both cd and vinyl.  There is far more difference in sound quality based on the quality of the recording than the media.  A CD reissue from crap masters, the record sounds better.  A worn out LP, the good quality CD sounds better.

Industrial application, record would suck mightily.

One of our local tap houses has been doing a "vinyl listening party" on the first friday every month, hosted by the local Americana radio station. I'm a big fan of both of these entities and my friends were the ones spinning the records so I went to the first one.

The music side of it sucked. Big acoustically bright room, lots of people drinking and talking, you couldn't hear crap.

Unless you just want to do it to be cool (which it is, I love my turntable at home) it's a waste of energy in a lively space. Just spend the money to expand the digital library.

For home use  - Streetwise is right. I love the ritual of vinyl but you can't say it's better sound across the board. Way too many variables. I've got a nice old Sansui table with cheap old radioshack stylus but I still get a ton of happy out of it.

Streetwiseguy said:

I have several albums on both cd and vinyl.  There is far more difference in sound quality based on the quality of the recording than the media.  A CD reissue from crap masters, the record sounds better.  A worn out LP, the good quality CD sounds better.

 

Industrial application, record would suck mightily.

I'm not even saying a worn out LP. If you buy a Vinyl of say, the new Metallica album. That vinyl was mastered from a digital studio recording, so you aren't gaining anything. 

The only thing that may be different is how it's EQ'd/Mastered on the vinyl, in which case, setting up your amp/processor for the digital recording could match the sound.

I understand the nostalgia or pomp and circumstance of it.........but the constant "The sounds quality" stuff, when even the pros can't tell the difference between super expensive speaker wire and coat hangers delivering the information to thousands in equipment.

z31maniac said:

Streetwiseguy said:

I have several albums on both cd and vinyl.  There is far more difference in sound quality based on the quality of the recording than the media.  A CD reissue from crap masters, the record sounds better.  A worn out LP, the good quality CD sounds better.

 

Industrial application, record would suck mightily.

I'm not even saying a worn out LP. If you buy a Vinyl of say, the new Metallica album. That vinyl was mastered from a digital studio recording, so you aren't gaining anything. 

The only thing that may be different is how it's EQ'd/Mastered on the vinyl, in which case, setting up your amp/processor for the digital recording could match the sound.

I understand the nostalgia or pomp and circumstance of it.........but the constant "The sounds quality" stuff, when even the pros can't tell the difference between super expensive speaker wire and coat hangers delivering the information to thousands in equipment.

I agree with you, but for some of us part of it is that our favorite stuff is old stuff--my favorite artist died in 1984. You can really hear the difference in the CD and the Vinyl, at least when run through my [mostly] vintage system. 

But you really hit the nail on the head with the pomp and circumstance part of it. I just like holding a record cover as opposed to a CD; with a download you get nothing. 95 percent of my listening is through my iphone to bluetooth, but when I just want to sit and listen to an album, it is vinyl. Because it is fun. 

I wouldn't subject a record player and LP's to that environment, and I don't even like vinyl that much...

Noise/vibration, heat, humidity.... not good for equipment and media. Get a tablet or laptop, rip music to FLAC, and play through the system you have with the tablet or laptop. No CD or LP collection to worry about storing or changing out the album when you want to change to something else - the entire music collection is available at the touch of your fingers in seconds. The physical CD and LP should be your backups/archives - rip music collection to FLAC for listening and store original media in a cool, dry place out of sunlight. If you want even higher quality audio, High Resolution digital beyond redbook CD master quality is available for download. Software for both ripping CDs/XRCDs and playing FLAC is available for free (Exact Audio Copy and Foobar 2000.)

Im not into vinyl because it is not an exactly precise replication of the original source... and never will be. A well mastered CD/SACD/XRCD will give a more true replication of the original source, LP does not have the dynamic range or resolution capability of a CD/SACD/XRCD. They are a 'filtered' version of the original source on their own. Some prefer the LP vinyl 'filter' through nice speakers - and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I just prefer to filter with DAC, headphone amp, and headphones of my choosing from a more true to source media FLAC rip (which is an exact quality copy of the original media).

Now if you had a separate listening room with adequate environmental control, vinyl would work well for that (as would digital as well).

Thrift store  craigslist   like  any  old record player ...  lotsa  nice  stuff  if you  can  find  it .     Marantz   pioneer  ...//  kliptsche   speakers   ...   love  the  old  killer  shizle   ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ    couple more z 

I think what most people actually hear is mostly, if not entirely, just differences in mastering practices. You can't make a vinyl record nearly as "loud"as a digital audio file, which makes it sound "warm" compared to a recent CD master that's probably compressed to death with no dynamic range. Google "loundness war" for more info. 

One thing with a turntable is you have to change records every 20 or 30 minutes, which would be just one more thing for the bartender or the servers to have to attend to while they're running the place.  I remember back in the day that some of the really cool bars would have a fancy reel to reel tape recorder with giant reels on it for their sound system, they could go for quite a while before the reels needed to be changed.

For me, turntables offer nothing but crap sound.  There is a nostaligia to it, but IMO its just way too hipster.  Zero benefits, many drawbacks.

Anytime someone says "the warm sound of a tube amp" or "the nuanced tone of a phonograph" I want to slap them in the throat.  What they're really saying is "the wholly inadequate sound reproduction that misses 60% of what the artist actually did."

You don't see everyone buying up cassette tapes, but give it 10 years.  It will be the next hot thing.

In reply to curtis73 :

I really must disagree with your statement.  A clean piece of vinyl on a quality turntable and a nice-sounding system really is the pinnacle of recorded audio quality.  In fact, the nuanced tone of a phonograph, complemented with the warm sound of a tube amp, is guaranteed to make you all tingly.   

As for your forecast on cassette tapes--it ain't gonna happen.  While a vinyl record in fine condition sounds excellent, cassettes always put convenience ahead of quality, and sound pretty much like crap. 

Actually, I was just reading an article about the resurgence of cassette tapes in the small-quantity recording market, specifically punk and underground electronica. Convenience and low cost to produce as a physical manifestation of music (compared to vinyl I guess) mean they've got some advantages. 

Everything old is new again.

In reply to ultraClyde:

My cousins band released their stuff on cassette a few years ago. Exclusively. 

In part because of the price, but they are really big in the ultrahipster market that listens to electronic yacht rock and screamo.

Nevermind that the idea of an ultra hipster market of any sort makes me pray for nuclear winter. 

Vinyl does have its place. I have a nice collection I stole from my parents, and there's a lot of stuff only on vinyl that really is pretty good. I really do think pink Floyd and black Sabbath sound much better at 33.3rpms. I have a warped vinyl from a group called Timbercreek. It's awesome southern 70s rock, and I've never seen it anywhere else. Meanwhile, hermans hermits is readily available in digital. For shame. 

All I know is that you need 2 of them. Also a microphone. 

This thread contains nothing about railroads or roundhouses.

1988RedT2 said:

In reply to curtis73 :

I really must disagree with your statement.  A clean piece of vinyl on a quality turntable and a nice-sounding system really is the pinnacle of recorded audio quality.  In fact, the nuanced tone of a phonograph, complemented with the warm sound of a tube amp, is guaranteed to make you all tingly.   

As for your forecast on cassette tapes--it ain't gonna happen.  While a vinyl record in fine condition sounds excellent, cassettes always put convenience ahead of quality, and sound pretty much like crap. 

 

Tape..............you mean the medium those old vinyls you love so much were originally recorded to?

z31maniac - that brings up an interesting point. Was the dynamic recording capability of studio-level large fromat tape better/worse/different than cassette type mini tape? Or vinyl? How about vs consumer market reel-to-reel tape?  I've never really thought about that, but now I'm curious.

OTOH, Jack White is running a studio that is recording live performance directly to wax records - the original direct-to-analog method. I think he's the only one in the country. Better sound? Doubtful. Unique sound? I would guess so.

z31maniac said:

1988RedT2 said:

In reply to curtis73 :

I really must disagree with your statement.  A clean piece of vinyl on a quality turntable and a nice-sounding system really is the pinnacle of recorded audio quality.  In fact, the nuanced tone of a phonograph, complemented with the warm sound of a tube amp, is guaranteed to make you all tingly.   

As for your forecast on cassette tapes--it ain't gonna happen.  While a vinyl record in fine condition sounds excellent, cassettes always put convenience ahead of quality, and sound pretty much like crap. 

 

 

Tape..............you mean the medium those old vinyls you love so much were originally recorded to?

Big diff between a studio quality tape deck and a cassette. 

How are those speakers holding up/performing?