Let’s give good thoughts to our California friends.

Looking at google earth and it looks like they were lucky it wasn't even worse.  The only access to the area circled in blue and the development to its right is that one road running through a rather steep canyon.  This is very similar to the Paradise CA fire, which killed 85.

Also of interest is the reservoir that was empty is circled in red.  The only area that was not heavily damaged was the area in blue!  The area to the right of it was flattened and at a higher elevation, so that reservoir would be no help to that area. (I think the fire may have started up there)

It seems to me, it's only a mater of time before that blue area burns. Get a fire up there, add some strong Santa Ana winds, I think it would be very hard to stop. I hope the people that live up there are aware of how dangerous their situation is.  I suspect they are a bit more aware now!

BTW that fire is currently working upwind up the mountain but will need to travel down slope against the wind to get to the rather large amount of houses on the other side.  Massive numbers of helicopters attacking it there now (nighttime), so I suspect it will be unlikely to hit those houses.
 

OK, a bit of a rant here after being on a generator for the last three days...

In 2028, all new non zero emission generators will be illegal to sell in CA.  How the F is that going to work?!  I am already a bit disgusted that the vast majority of home solar installations are useless if the grid is down.

This is the related text. Anyone see an issue here?

This means that traditional gas-powered generators will no longer be sold within the state. Instead, consumers will need to purchase generators that run on alternative power sources, such as electricity or solar energy.
 

So... you are telling me I will have an ELECTRICALLY powered generator to generate ELECTRICITY!!!

My god, these people are idiots!!

And yes a solar powered, in full sun, generator MIGHT generate 400w with two large panels! My current generator is 4000w !!      Wow, just wow.

Yes, I am sure there will be a thriving business in "used, still in box" generators that are driven in from out of state.

In reply to aircooled :

A new prohibition era. 

In reply to aircooled :

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, frightened animals and you know it!" Agent K

I smell a growing market for gasoline fueled generator kits. Maybe they'll be sold at ICEA.

In reply to aircooled :

Yeah, that's dumb. I wonder if I'd be allowed to use my hybrid pickem' up with it's built in generator? Technically, that's gas-powered.

In reply to aircooled :

While I get the angst, there are quite a few solar generators rated for over 3500 W. Just as there are a lot of high output solar panels to recharge the generator. Generators rarely run at full output and do so for a very short time. 
 

Im still working out if I build or buy a solar generator. 
 

And I'd bet they are counting on EVs to backup a house. 

Reading into that 'gas generator ban' it's a bit more nuanced doesn't sound like a blanket ban.. Propane/natural and diesel are exempt and there also appears to be limits on size for gas power generators as well (25hp/19kW)

Obviously no one is taking away a generator you already own or preventing purchasing from out of state, though you'll need to do it in person.

https://www.rvingknowhow.com/california-generator-ban/

In reply to aircooled :

A generator that runs on electricity.  I.  ... hummmm.   .. . .  I got nothing. .. .. . 

newold_m (Forum Supporter) said:

Reading into that 'gas generator ban' it's a bit more nuanced doesn't sound like a blanket ban.. Propane/natural and diesel are exempt and there also appears to be limits on size for gas power generators as well (25hp/19kW)

Obviously no one is taking away a generator you already own or preventing purchasing from out of state, though you'll need to do it in person.

https://www.rvingknowhow.com/california-generator-ban/

Most of the big Generacs backing up houses in my neighborhood hook right up to the same natural gas line that fuels your water heater and your heater. They also run on propane if you live so far out in the boonies that all your stuff is hooked up to a propane tank. They don't need gasoline.

In reply to alfadriver :

Solar generators and batteries have their benefits, but are not ready to replace gas generators. They are great for shorter outages (assuming you kept the battery fully charged before the outage) but the small solar arrays are not enough to keep up with extended outages and/or larger loads. Plus you often need the generator when conditions are the worst for solar- bad weather, night time, or smoke filed skies from wild fires. Benefits include that they are quiet, and can be recharged without the need for fuel, assuming your array can produce more than your consumption. Gas generators on the other hand are simple. Put gas in, power comes out. You can store a lot of energy in a few gallons of gas, it's way more energy dense than batteries. The downsides are noise, and you need to have gas on hand, which has a shelf life. Ideally you would have both. I like the benefits of solar/battery, but wouldn't do it without a gas generator as a backup. Actually, they work well in conjunction. Use the gas generator to charge the battery when solar won't do, it makes the gas generator usage more efficient, like a hybrid.

I've got mixed feelings on using EV's for backup power. I like that the feature is available. But I think it's a horrible idea in examples such as nearby wild fires. The last thing I would want to do is deplete the power I may need for my vehicle- I wouldn't siphon the gas out of my car to run my generator either. 

In reply to newold_m (Forum Supporter) :

Reading into that 'gas generator ban' it's a bit more nuanced doesn't sound like a blanket ban.. Propane/natural and diesel are exempt and there also appears to be limits on size for gas power generators as well (25hp/19kW)

Obviously no one is taking away a generator you already own or preventing purchasing from out of state, though you'll need to do it in person.

https://www.rvingknowhow.com/california-generator-ban/

 

It's not that nuanced. They are banning the sale of portable gas generators, period. The kind that are extremely common and inexpensive. You won't be able to buy a $500 potable gas generator. You can still buy a $15000 (installed) permanently installed natural gas generator, but those are not the same thing. 

The generator ban is just plain stupid.  The law is really aimed at things like chainsaws and leaf blowers, but from what I can tell no one bothered to think it through about generators.  The battery power sources just don't do the same thing and are woefully inadequate to replace them, especially in emergency situations like this one.

It seems wrong to call a giant battery pack a "generator" but that's what they mean by an "electricity-powered generator"...obviously it's going to have some capacity issues compared to a traditional generator, especially if the cost is anywhere near the same ballpark. I agree that completely banning ICE-based generators is a dumb thing to do right now, it's akin to trying to phase out ICE cars in the late '90s, it would've been more sensible at this point to set emissions standards for them, most 4-stroke generators that aren't bargain-bin specials aren't bad in terms of emissions.

The only workaround I can think of might be that a hydrogen-powered ICE generator or fuel cell generator might qualify as zero-emissions. Hope they'd be comfortable with a bunch of average Joes storing pressurized hydrogen at home...

GameboyRMH said: Hope they'd be comfortable with a bunch of average Joes storing pressurized hydrogen at home...

Right next to their flame-on Teslas.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

Technically, a battery and gasoline store energy in chemical potential. One needs moving parts to change from chemical to mechanical to electrical. The other, the reaction makes electricity. Then it just needs converting to a usable voltage. 
 

We are just used to generators having moving parts. Or at least converting mechanical energy to electrical. 

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

The biggest issue with solar are batteries. But they work the same as a gas tank. You need to size both in a way to refill at a pace that works for your situation. Just like EVs vs gas cars. And making a solar generator hybrid is high on my requirement list. 

Looking at it, yes, the "electric generators" and that how they are sometime marketed, are just batteries (which of course "generate" nothing).  A typical one that you might buy to partially power a house (which is what I do with a gas generator), is around $3000 (my generator was around $300), and will power a house for... ONE day (their claim).  My power was out for 3 days, many other people it was more and in the cases of natural disaster, those are generally more than a day!.  They are 5000 w/hrs, which means, you would likely need 3 full size panels, in sun, charging it for probably 12 hours to refill (maybe more, someone can check my math). Of course, you will need to power the house while charging, so another $3000 or so battery.

Powering your house by you electric car?  So, buy an electric car ($$$$$), that might not be practical for you, setup a hookup ($), assuming your car even supports that (which I think very few do currently). What if you live in an apartment?  And.. what do you charge your electric car with!! Wishes and dreams?  As noted previously, my neighbors bugged out, and left their much larger electric car, for good reason.

Of course, leaf blowers and other 2 stroke engined lawn equipment etc. have been banned in Los Angeles for many years.  Walk around LA and see how many gardeners are using 2 stroke equipment... almost ALL.  Why? well... CA... it has to do with who is using these things...

And as these things go.  If you follow the law and want a generator in the future, you buy a 25+ hp generator, or a Diesel generator.... yeah, that will reduce emissions...  maybe just hook up a V8 to an old generator, that would be legal.

What I really want to do is setup a roller connected to a large alternator and put my car on it and generate power from that.  Maybe go out and buy a 64 Cadillac and have that idling in my driveway generating power... that would be legal!I

In reply to aircooled :

Batteries are not capacitors. They store electic energy via a chemical reaction.  And they generate electricity via a chemical reaction. 
 

Just like gasoline. Technically. 

In reply to alfadriver :

Technically yes.

Still disingenuous to advertise them as generators considering the common understanding of what a generator is.

This is how I see a typical conversation going:

"I want to buy a generator"

   "OK, here is one"

"That generates electricity?"

  "Yes"

"From what?"

  "A battery"

"Where does the battery get power from?"

  "Electricity"

"Um... what?"

In reply to aircooled :

You are just being stubborn about filling a box with a liquid vs electricity. 

Solar and a battery sound great for this kind of thing, a friend has a power wall and solar and didn't notice the power was out. 
 

But he paid a lot of money for that. 10x what a little gas generator costs. 
 

I find the gulf between ideal engineering solutions and practical solutions is wide and usually filled with money. 
 

And solar panels have all sorts of issues like poor installation that causes leaks and no one who is willing to fix it. Also dust lol. 

alfadriver said:

In reply to aircooled :

You are just being stubborn about filling a box with a liquid vs electricity. 

And you are just being stubborn about what 98% of the population would consider a "generator".

It would be, practically, like selling a Water Generator, that is a water tank.

Yes, I know, technically you would want to have the water converted to something for storage, but I think you get the point, and even if it did, it would still be almost entirely as silly.

In reply to aircooled :

I think it's a lot more than 98%. 
 

Every time I bring up this technicality, I'm on my own. Still, useful to open the mindset even if the technology isn't ready. 

spandak said:

 

I find the gulf between ideal engineering solutions and practical solutions is wide and usually filled with money. 
 

This.