Let's talk about deadbolts / door locks and home security

Gun is great if you are there to use it and if home invasion is what you are worried about. (Honestly if home invasion is what you are worried about in a new home purchase why the berkeley would you buy a house there?) But if you aren't home, the gun is a great thing to steal and sell or use in a crime down the road.

Guns without proper and consistent training are almost useless and statistically speaking are more dangerous to you than someone else. If you want to go down that road I recommend the USCCA. They do very useful things to help you be prepared and train. Good group right there for actually helping you become proficient in using a firearm for protection.

Dead bolt, motion lights, cameras that are noticeable and unnoticeable (you want a few out of view) barking dog, alarm. Those will keep the home safe.

As a victim I'll suggest keyed inside deadbolts. My home was burglarized and they took EVERYTHING in the house out the front door. Loaded it all into a big truck(s). I'm talkin dressers full of clothes, couches, beds, all the appliances including the refrigerator, Marshall stacks, Big TV's, valuable bikes, surround sound systems, tools, yard equipment, and everything else. The only items of any value they left were my motorcycle leather left hanging alone in a closet and the 2 cars in the garage the rest of the house was empty and in 3" of water from the ice maker feed line being broken. You could see by the gouges and marks in the concrete sidewalk that they'd dragged all the stuff right out the front door. If the deadbolt was keyed both sides I probably would have lost 20-30 thousand dollars less stuff because they wouldn't have taken it or couldn't get it through a window. And as for insurance, don't count on it. I pretty much lost my life's savings and all the stuff I'd accumulated, battled insurance for years.

Ninja edit: Don't leave the deadbolt key where it can be found in the house. AND, don't hide a spare key by your back door, it's the first place thieves look and it's usually too easy to find while fewer people might notice them poking around.

Keyed is better for security, that's true. It's worse for a panicked egress like a fire, that's true also.

Third option, upgrade the side light to make it more difficult to break out and reach in through. Laminated glass, decorative grating, etc.

Side lights mean a very weak door frame mount. Usually, they'll blow the door and/or frame out with one good kick or shoulder thrust. If you're serious about having the door not move look into vertical mount systems. Ugly, but much more effective.

So then they just break a side windows and come in that way.

When it's all said and done, if a burglar wants in, they're coming in. Make your home less attractive, and have external deterrents. No expensive bling in the yard, keep the curtains closed, motion lights, a vague security sticker, etc. Things that will cause a prospective burglar to skip you over in favor of one of your neighbors.

Jimmy Proof Deadbolt is what I am talking about. Notice the door jam plate (not exactly a striker is it?) and how wide it is? It also puts the screws in tension and shear. This makes them much harder to defeat in the attempt of a kick in.

Notice how small the area is on the jam plate? Much smaller plus you have to cut the jam stud causing even further weakening. I have kicked in one of these. The jam is what fails.

In reply to Flight Service:

my monitor isn't all that good … (or else it's my eyes ) can't make out the brand of the top example

Flight Service wrote: This makes them much harder to defeat in the attempt of a kick in.

Fwiw, over the course of my life, especially as a younger hooligan, I've kicked in a fair number of doors. I don't recall ever having a lock fail. Instead it was either ripped out of the wall, or the door, or typically both.

The greatest lock in the world is only as effective as what it's mounted in.

wbjones wrote: In reply to Flight Service: my monitor isn't all that good … (or else it's my eyes ) can't make out the brand of the top example

Segal is the brand on that one. I picked it because it was a good picture of the structure.

foxtrapper wrote:

Flight Service wrote: This makes them much harder to defeat in the attempt of a kick in.

Fwiw, over the course of my life, especially as a younger hooligan, I've kicked in a fair number of doors. I don't recall ever having a lock fail. Instead it was either ripped out of the wall, or the door, or typically both. The greatest lock in the world is only as effective as what it's mounted in.

Yeah, with locks you are just moving fail points around. I have only had one fail (really cheap Kmart/walmart chineese sheet metal bolt with a nylon core. Total crap.) The nice thing about the Jimmy Proof model is it aids in improving door jam structure where a typical dead bolt lessons it.

The jam will fail, but you have elevated the fail point beyond the typical.

Thanks folks! The house has two big sliding glass doors so if they gain access they will have no problem getting things out, even if the front door is welded shut. Motion lights are a must, at my last house I modified the existing light (rental) to work off a cheap motion sensor I bought from Home Depot for $12. Worked great and looked very fancy. Fortunately (unfortunately?) we don't have that many valuables yet so hopefully we don't become a target. I'll add cameras to the to:do list.

NOT A TA wrote: As a victim I'll suggest keyed inside deadbolts. My home was burglarized and they took EVERYTHING in the house out the front door. Loaded it all into a big truck(s). I'm talkin dressers full of clothes, couches, beds, all the appliances including the refrigerator, Marshall stacks, Big TV's, valuable bikes, surround sound systems, tools, yard equipment, and everything else. The only items of any value they left were my motorcycle leather left hanging alone in a closet and the 2 cars in the garage the rest of the house was empty and in 3" of water from the ice maker feed line being broken. You could see by the gouges and marks in the concrete sidewalk that they'd dragged all the stuff right out the front door. If the deadbolt was keyed both sides I probably would have lost 20-30 thousand dollars less stuff because they wouldn't have taken it or couldn't get it through a window. And as for insurance, don't count on it. I pretty much lost my life's savings and all the stuff I'd accumulated, battled insurance for years. Ninja edit: Don't leave the deadbolt key where it can be found in the house. AND, don't hide a spare key by your back door, it's the first place thieves look and it's usually too easy to find while fewer people might notice them poking around.

Care to explain why insurance didn't cover it?

In reply to KyAllroad:

Word on the knob locks, 90% of doors that swing inwards can be defeated with a speedway rewards card....

I actually have steel plates on the inside of my deadbolts, and I did the shatter proof coating on downstairs windows, even then, that's only meant to slow them down/deter them.

Enyar wrote: And as for insurance, don't count on it. I pretty much lost my life's savings and all the stuff I'd accumulated, battled insurance for years.

Care to explain why insurance didn't cover it?

Tips for everyone from someone who worked at a giant insurance company:

Consider an individual policy on any expensive items--jewelry, instruments, stereo systems, etc.
Every 6 months or so, take your phone and video tape everything in your house. Take about 2 hours doing it. Get into boxes, get everything in the picture. Save this on your phone, load it onto youtube and facebook on private settings so that only you can see them, and remember how to get there. It makes it really easy crush any fraud claims if anything does happen.

Had two homes burglarized in the last few years. Both times it was via a back door that had been kicked in. Second place had a motion light; thieves kicked in the door and turned it off. There are light switches that use a key or other means to handle switching or you could just wire it direct and remove the switch (I don't like this idea personally).

There are jam re-enforcement plates that help distribute the load of a kick to the door as well as provide more places to set screws into the jam. On the second home I helped the landlord fix the back door. With shimming, one of these large jam plates, and large screws running through everything the door was much more solid afterward.

I second the previous mention of good neighbors being an assistance against this sort of thing. It's a long story but I didn't have that sort of thing the second time and it was infuriating to find out things that had been going on in the neighborhood after my home had been hit. The first time I did have a neighbor paying attention and while I did lose items it was way better than it could have been.

NOT A TA wrote: Ninja edit: Don't leave the deadbolt key where it can be found in the house. AND, don't hide a spare key by your back door, it's the first place thieves look and it's usually too easy to find while fewer people might notice them poking around.

An option for an outside key.

These actually help a fair bit on the kick in ability.

But IMO windows/sliders are the easiest target. Thats where they went in in my house when they broke in. Didn't even need to break the glass. Vinyl windows flex enough they can be unlatched....

In reply to java230:

Yeah, that's what I was referring to in my post. Get enough solid wood behind those plates with enough screws and it won't be the jam that fails on a kick-in.

mtn wrote:

Enyar wrote: And as for insurance, don't count on it. I pretty much lost my life's savings and all the stuff I'd accumulated, battled insurance for years.

Care to explain why insurance didn't cover it?

Tips for everyone from someone who worked at a giant insurance company:

Consider an individual policy on any expensive items--jewelry, instruments, stereo systems, etc.
Every 6 months or so, take your phone and video tape everything in your house. Take about 2 hours doing it. Get into boxes, get everything in the picture. Save this on your phone, load it onto youtube and facebook on private settings so that only you can see them, and remember how to get there. It makes it really easy crush any fraud claims if anything does happen.

Was about to post this.

foxtrapper wrote:

Flight Service wrote: This makes them much harder to defeat in the attempt of a kick in.

Fwiw, over the course of my life, especially as a younger hooligan, I've kicked in a fair number of doors. I don't recall ever having a lock fail. Instead it was either ripped out of the wall, or the door, or typically both. The greatest lock in the world is only as effective as what it's mounted in.

Very true. About 20 years ago, a gang near where I used to live was breaking into houses with a JackAll. Simply jack the jambs apart until the door swings open. Apparently code now requires blocking on either side of the door opening, but not all houses are new enough to have this. So a lock is good, but as others have said, it's not an iron-clad guarantee.

mtn wrote:

Enyar wrote: And as for insurance, don't count on it. I pretty much lost my life's savings and all the stuff I'd accumulated, battled insurance for years.

Care to explain why insurance didn't cover it?

Tips for everyone from someone who worked at a giant insurance company:

Consider an individual policy on any expensive items--jewelry, instruments, stereo systems, etc.
Every 6 months or so, take your phone and video tape everything in your house. Take about 2 hours doing it. Get into boxes, get everything in the picture. Save this on your phone, load it onto youtube and facebook on private settings so that only you can see them, and remember how to get there. It makes it really easy crush any fraud claims if anything does happen.

Keith Tanner wrote: I've been meaning to do this for the longest time but never have. I'll bump it up on my to-do list.

NOT A TA wrote: Ninja edit: Don't leave the deadbolt key where it can be found in the house. AND, don't hide a spare key by your back door, it's the first place thieves look and it's usually too easy to find while fewer people might notice them poking around.

An option for an outside key.

That's actually a great idea. The combo door locks are battery powered and they just seem like another annoyance/something to break. I'll grab one of these and hide it somewhere outside.

pres589 wrote: In reply to java230: Yeah, that's what I was referring to in my post. Get enough solid wood behind those plates with enough screws and it won't be the jam that fails on a kick-in.

Is there a reason why exterior doors don't open outward? Seems to make more sense in case of theft/hurricane/fire.

WOW Really Paul? wrote: In reply to KyAllroad: Word on the knob locks, 90% of doors that swing inwards can be defeated with a speedway rewards card.... I actually have steel plates on the inside of my deadbolts, and I did the shatter proof coating on downstairs windows, even then, that's only meant to slow them down/deter them.

Are you talking about this stuff?

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-18621/Protection-Tapes/Security-Window-Film-Rolls-36-x-25?pricode=WY760&gadtype=pla&id=S-18621&gclid=Cj0KEQjw75yxBRD78uqEnuG-5vcBEiQAQbaxSC0EuAgQwq1kW2dxOXG96grKaoDmVh6msO4DlyfipE4aAjoE8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Enyar wrote:

mtn wrote:

Enyar wrote: And as for insurance, don't count on it. I pretty much lost my life's savings and all the stuff I'd accumulated, battled insurance for years.

Care to explain why insurance didn't cover it?

Tips for everyone from someone who worked at a giant insurance company: Consider an individual policy on any expensive items--jewelry, instruments, stereo systems, etc. Every 6 months or so, take your phone and video tape everything in your house. Take about 2 hours doing it. Get into boxes, get everything in the picture. Save this on your phone, load it onto youtube and facebook on private settings so that only you can see them, and remember how to get there. It makes it really easy crush any fraud claims if anything does happen.

Keith Tanner wrote: I've been meaning to do this for the longest time but never have. I'll bump it up on my to-do list.

NOT A TA wrote: Ninja edit: Don't leave the deadbolt key where it can be found in the house. AND, don't hide a spare key by your back door, it's the first place thieves look and it's usually too easy to find while fewer people might notice them poking around.

An option for an outside key.

That's actually a great idea. The combo door locks are battery powered and they just seem like another annoyance/something to break. I'll grab one of these and hide it somewhere outside.

pres589 wrote: In reply to java230: Yeah, that's what I was referring to in my post. Get enough solid wood behind those plates with enough screws and it won't be the jam that fails on a kick-in.

Is there a reason why exterior doors don't open outward? Seems to make more sense in case of theft/hurricane/fire.

You don't live where it snows, do you?

^^^Thats funny!!

Those master boxes suck. Get one of these style.

Can you elaborate on "suck"? Mine's been working just fine for years

Keith Tanner wrote: You don't live where it snows, do you?

Thank goodness I don't! I thought of that later and also the fact that the hinges would be exposed. Seems like someone could just take the whole door off if they wanted.

In reply to Enyar:

PLEASE DON'T USE A KEY ON THE INSIDE (double cylinder deadbolt). I had a friend die in a fire in her own home because of one.

I think they should be outlawed, and have never installed one in the past 20 years since my friend died.

The "sidelight argument" doesn't really hold water. If a thief is prepared to break glass, he can get into ANY house, anywhere.

But here's the problem...

In the event of a fire, you will not be thinking clearly. You will be gasping for air, and trying to get out. You will NOT REMEMBER where the key is, regardless of how obvious.

That's what happened to my friend. They found her dead in a pile at the back door, unable to find the key, which was hanging on the same nail next to the door it had always been hanging on for 15 years.

Sorry, it's one of my pet peeves. I'd rather let the thieves have my stuff than have my kids unable to get out of the building in the event of an emergency.

Keith Tanner wrote: Can you elaborate on "suck"? Mine's been working just fine for years

Dont hit it with a hammer.... Working construction we go though a lot of lock boxes. The master ones are easy to get into. (at which point someone probably would have broken a window rather than find a lock box and break into it)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/VzZ2qtovFmk