Let's talk small fishing boats

mtn said:

How old are your kids?

5, 12, and 16. I dont plan on taking all of them out at the same time.

I'd prioritize the engine that is included. Personally, I rank them Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Tohatsu > Mercury > Evinrude/Johnson, but would consider all of them. And there are a lot of crossovers in that list (Johnson's made by Suzuki, Mercs made by Tohatsu, Tohatsu made by Honda). Just be aware that the older an engine is, the harder it gets to find parts. It's never impossible, but it is often expensive or needs to be shipped across the country. Not an issue for Curtis with 6 backups in his garage and probably more parts motors, but it can be a PITA when your 3 day fishing trip turns into a 2.5 day fishing trip because the impeller blew and nobody has it in stock so you have to burn 2 hours round trip to get it and then install it.

I'd go with a 14-16 foot deep v in your situation. Safer for the 5 year old, and the older kids too if they want to take the boat out on their own. Is it significantly safer? No, probably not. But if you're on horsepower restricted lakes, there is a good chance that you'll be underpowered in almost anything. If you get caught in chop 2 miles from the launch and a storm is on the radar, I'd personally appreciate the deep v. 
 

That said, the Jon boat is fine too. I only really boat on Green Bay, and Lake Michigan, so have been beat up in underpowered dinghy's and stranded 3 miles from home...Not a concern for you.

I highly recommend reading Dculbersons thread: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/help-me-buy-a-hole-in-the-water-or-not/186470/page1/

Also, some time spent at https://www.tinboats.net/forums/jon-and-v-boat-conversions-modifications.21/ would be beneficial. Or very harmful. 

gearheadmb said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

A 9.9 would do it as well, but the 15 is the same motor.  The way they make it a 9.9 is to put a restrictive carb on it, so no reason not to get more go for the same weight.  (this also means that converting a 9.9 to a 15 is pretty easy.) 

This is handy info, because in ohio boat motors 10hp and over require a title. Most for sale ads say they dont have a title, so it's nice to know how easily a used 9.9 can be souped up.

How is parts availability on older motors?

Around here, parts are plentiful and cheap back to the mid 60s it seems.  I did have trouble finding OEM coils for my 68 Evinrude 6, but there are aftermarket universal ones that seem to work great.  If you dig, there is also a pretty good network of marine junkyards near coasts and larger waterways, and shipping parts isn't crazy expensive.  I really miss Cap'n T's near Annapolis.  They had something like 120 acres of everything from little fishing dorys up to 60' trawlers.  They had it all, but they went belly-up in the 80s or 90s.

PA has a 10hp limit  on many lakes, and the hot ticket is to buy a 15 and then hit up a marina's junk pile to find a 9.9 cowl.  To the best of my knowledge on the OMC 9.9/15 (it's been 30 years since I did a conversion) the only difference is the carb and maybe the reed valves.  I know I bought reed valves when I converted, but I may have just done that because "while I was in there" kinda thing.

If you dig, you'll find that nearly all outboards do the same trick across the entire lineup.  My Merc 70 is identical to the 80, 90, and 95hp versions, just different carbs.  The old blue straight-6 Mercs could be had in anything from 115 to 150hp with a carb change.  If you think about OMCs in the 20-35hp range, they're all the same powerhead as well.  There may have been other differences, but the primary thing is carbs.  I do recall something about the straight-6 mercs that if you put 150 carbs on it you only got about 135-140hp unless you did something else from the 150.  Head maybe?

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :

That looks like a mid 90s Merc 20 or 25.  That was one of the finest motors Merc ever made.  You couldn't kill them and they just WORKED.

mtn said:

That Sylvan/StarCraft is a great deal. I may be mistaken, but I think that Johnson is actually a Suzuki. Some OMC specific controls, but internals are all Suzuki. 
 

They did hook up with Suzuki (I think) in the 2000s.  They were then bought by Bombardier and got scuttled pretty much.  Truth be told, once you get to 4-strokes, the reliable names get all flipped around.

Up through the 90s, you could pretty much count on any OMC or Mercury, and Force was the joke.  In the newer 4-stroke world, I wouldn't have a Mercury, and the hot tickets are Tohatsu, in the 30-70 hp range,  Suzuki, and Yamaha.  (although I do have a 3hp Merc 4 stroke that isn't awful).  Dad has a 2013 Yamaha 50 that has been flawless.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Most (all?) low powered 4 stroke Mercs are actually Tohatsu, and have been for probably 35 years. I think the last low powered 4 strokes Evinrudes were Tohatsu too. 
 

We are in a different conversation now, but I'm super impressed with the 2017 115 Merc hanging off the back of Dad's new used Lund. Although for an engine with few enough hours that we had to google the break-in period, I'd be disappointed with anything other than perfection. 

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I always forget about Force. It is astounding that they were making what was essentially a 1960s era Chrysler outboard into the 90s. 

In reply to mtn :

The early Force outboards were Chrysler, but at some point they became Mercury two strokes minus oil injection. My understanding is that those are very simple and reliable.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) :

That looks like a mid 90s Merc 20 or 25.  That was one of the finest motors Merc ever made.  You couldn't kill them and they just WORKED.

Correct. It was a 25, and it was wonderful. I wish I still had that boat. 

https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/969082941292766/?ref=marketplace_profile

This looks like a good deal for a project. I'd replace/service the wheel bearings, get the engine running, replace the batteries, replace the trolling motor (45ft/lb minimum), possibly add some oarlocks and oars, and get on the water. 
 

Then over the winter, plan on replacing the stringers and floor. And maybe the transom too.

In reply to mtn :

That looks like a darn near perfect setup.

My only advise is; a used boat including a used motor is cheapest. Used boats without a motor are a dime a dozen and dirt cheap but it's impossible to find used motors by themselves and you wind up buying a brand new motor.

You might be able to find a good older motor and parts for them but finding a mechanic willing to work on something too old could be darn near impossible.

That Lund would be perfect.

In reply to mtn :

That is perfect. I cant buy this particular one right now because of unforeseen circumstances that popped up, but this ad has convinced me to not buy the first jon boat that lands in front of me but to hold out for the right deal. Thank you.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/mud-motor-quick-build/130692/page1/

These are dirt cheap 

I am directly associated with this. this engine is still working great I use it on a small 14' long 42" wide small Jon boat and a 12' long 48" wide flat bottom with a pointy bow. It will plane out  both boats. The 14' is great for two people and the 12 is merely acceptable for 2 people 

Cdowd recently bought another kit for  11- 20 HP. I have sourced a generac 14 HP  engine for his kit. It should be a really good performer. I think we'll be assembling it on memorial Day weekend. Details will be posted 

https://www.instagram.com/mudskippermudmotors/p/CrlikzfOnZd/

This is what I anticipate that cdowd's 12' x 55" Jon boat will do with his new engine kit 

pilotbraden said:

https://www.instagram.com/mudskippermudmotors/p/CrlikzfOnZd/

 

This is what I anticipate that cdowd's 12' x 55" Jon boat will do with his new engine kit 

I fixed your link.

Istagram.com: 1448 jon boat powered by 459cc Twister long tail mud motor from @shawn_moose2

mtn said:

https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/969082941292766/?ref=marketplace_profile

 

This looks like a good deal for a project. I'd replace/service the wheel bearings, get the engine running, replace the batteries, replace the trolling motor (45ft/lb minimum), possibly add some oarlocks and oars, and get on the water. 
 

Then over the winter, plan on replacing the stringers and floor. And maybe the transom too.

 

 

I actually contacted this guy today, but what I didn't realize was that the map on the ad is incorrect. He isn't near Chicago, he is clear over on the west side of Illinois. So too far away for me unfortunately. I was ready to pull the trigger. 

Yikes, he's almost to Iowa.