I know that organized religion gives a lot of people solace, peace and happiness in their lives. I'm glad for them, and would never mock their beliefs. How would I know if they are right or wrong? I do believe in... something. Call it God, call it the FSM, whatever, I do think there has to be something greater than our perceived reality. I just don't subscribe to any of the specific sets of beliefs that come with the major faiths. I guess you could call me a Deist.
In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :
I don't particularly participate in religion either. I think many church denominations have their priorities skewed, including the one I am a member of. I don't go to church every Sunday. I dont read the Bible every day. I question as much as I believe. I don't think God minds the questions.
However, I am a guy with faith. I think you can have faith without religion.
I did and frequently do ask.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Buddha wasn't a Christian, but Jesus would have made a good Buddhist.
Except for the part where he said "No one comes to the Father (aka freedom from sin/salvation) except through me"
Well... and the prophetic descriptions of Him coming back as a warrior king to redeem the world through a bloody war against the forces of evil.
Edit: but I'm not here to start a theological debate, so here's a link to a cool music video. Just because I think it's cool.
In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
I often wonder if there aren't many faces of God and as many paths to him as there are faces.
I have a very good friend who died as an atheist. He was the definition of a good man. Loved life and his fellow man. Part of me thinks God will recognise his own when the time comes just as Satan will recognise his.
BlueInGreen - Jon said:Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Buddha wasn't a Christian, but Jesus would have made a good Buddhist.
Except for the part where he said "No one comes to the Father (aka freedom from sin/salvation) except through me"
Well... and the prophetic descriptions of Him coming back as a warrior king to redeem the world through a bloody war against the forces of evil.
Edit: but I'm not here to start a theological debate, so here's a link to a cool music video. Just because I think it's cool.
Christianity is a religion. Buddhism is a philosophy. Apples and oranges.
And...you can always cherry pick through different quotes from different translations of any religious text to argue for or against just about anything and play that game until you are blue in the face, but that's not what I'm am interested in. That is not what I am seeking.
Thank you mods for letting this thread live. It's healthy.
dculberson said:Steve_Jones said:Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Toyman! :
Some mistakes cannot be undone, no matter how much you wish them so. Asking for the world to be flat does not make it any less round.
But some magical person in the sky can say "it's ok" and apparenly it is.
I find it very crass to mock other people's religion.
I think preaching to others is crass. You live your beliefs, I'll live mine. Why do people think they have the right to "save" others? Is that not arrogance?
I have no issues with what some believes politically, or religiously. When people feel the need to judge others based on those beliefs, I have an issue. Ian said he's ok with his belief system, yet 4 people have told him it's wrong. Are they not crass?
Steve_Jones said:dculberson said:Steve_Jones said:Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Toyman! :
Some mistakes cannot be undone, no matter how much you wish them so. Asking for the world to be flat does not make it any less round.
But some magical person in the sky can say "it's ok" and apparenly it is.
I find it very crass to mock other people's religion.
I think preaching to others is crass. You live your beliefs, I'll live mine. Why do people think they have the right to "save" others? Is that not arrogance?
I have no issues with what some believes politically, or religiously. When people feel the need to judge others based on those beliefs, I have an issue. Ian said he's ok with his belief system, yet 4 people have told him it's wrong. Are they not crass?
Quoted for truth.
Like the folks that showed up at our front door telling us we were invited to visit their church. Every "no thanks" "we don't go to church" etc was met with a "Do you believe you'll go to heaven when you die?" and similar retorts to the point I just closed the front door on them.
In reply to z31maniac :
I haven't seen anything in here that is crass. This is a discussion. Everything posted is asking for a response.
I can promise you I will never beat on your door and preach to you. I will respond to statements with my thoughts on them. There is no requirement to agree.
I will say, while overly evangelical Christians can be a bit overbearing at times, the large majority of them honestly love their fellow humans.
Toyman! said:In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :
I often wonder if there aren't many faces of God and as many paths to him as there are faces.
I have a very good friend who died as an atheist. He was the definition of a good man. Loved life and his fellow man. Part of me thinks God will recognise his own when the time comes just as Satan will recognise his.
What you said reminds me of a scene from The Last Battle (basically an allegory of the Biblical end times)-last book in the Chronicles of Narnia series by CS Lewis.
Near the end of the story there is a doorway leading to Aslan (the character representing God/Jesus) and the new world. All the creatures come to the door and either: recognize him as the one they've been looking for all along even if they didn't know it; enter the doorway and embrace him, or reject him to go past the door into darkness and oblivion.
We all have a free will to believe or not believe. I'm a believer or AKA a born again believer. Either way you go I love all youse guys as each one of you is a precious soul to me.
I subscribe to no higher power besides that created by burning hydrocarbons, but think that all-in-all most religions have been a net positive for the cultures in which they exist. The age of religiosity was an important bridge to the age of science. Religions gave the society structure and a framework for education instead of anarchy and the dictatorship of the strong over the weak. To the extent that they encourage moral behavior and community, I feel that they still very much have their place. Unfortunately in some places, such as where they subjugate women, religion is depressing the entire cultures socio-economic progress.
I try to follow Jordan Peterson's riff on Christianity: "I don't know if there is a god, but believe in living as if there were".
I saw this this morning but decided to stay out. Then I see a little chirping going on. I'm what I call a nonbeliever. Some might call me Atheist. I was raised Christian and I'm a firm believer that everyone should study religion if only to see how it affects our society. That said I have a saying. Everyone's religion is right for them. There's no reason to put down anyone's religion or try to change anyone's religion if they don't want it. Here's to hoping this conversation will stay civil.
Since we're sharing. I'm a Christian and was baptized in 1994. I grew up in a Christian household and was taught these beliefs. As I grew up and moved away from home, I tested those beliefs in many different ways and found them to be true and trustworthy. I don't have all the answers but am sure in whom I'm following. That gives me hope that many don't have.
I could write an essay but thanks for reading this.
Toyman! said:I haven't seen anything in here that is crass.
Phrases like "you just need to ask for forgiveness" can demonstrate a similarly flippant disregard for somebody else's beliefs, as referring to a "magical person in the sky" does.
In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
I like that saying.
Earlier I was going to repeat the golden rule, the old, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." But realized that can mean many different things depending on someone's specific beliefs.
In reply to BlueInGreen - Jon :
Cool video
My makers are both dead; and yes, I was reconciled with them before they died.
Not that I was ever really estranged from them in the first place.
I think preaching to others is crass. You live your beliefs, I'll live mine. Why do people think they have the right to "save" others? Is that not arrogance?
I have no issues with what some believes politically, or religiously. When people feel the need to judge others based on those beliefs, I have an issue. Ian said he's ok with his belief system, yet 4 people have told him it's wrong. Are they not crass,
Don't know that anyone was judging or said he was wrong. If you find what you believe to be a better way of doing something, say setting up a race car, do you not share that information with your friends? You're not forcing them to do it your way, just telling them about it. If they want to try it they can, if not that's their decision. Same with this, sharing information on what we believe is a better way. Accept it or not, it's your decision. No hard feelings either way. One of my best friends doesn't believe the way I do, but we're always there for each other.
drock25too said:If you find what you believe to be a better way of doing something, say setting up a race car, do you not share that information with your friends?
It's one thing for a road racer to tell another road racer how to "better" set up their car, it's another thing entirely for that road racer to do the same to a drag racer.
In reply to drock25too :
if you tell me what you believe is a better way to set up a race car, that's fine when you tell me again, then tell others why I'm wrong, that's not ok, especially if I'm not even racing you.
look at your post with the book, gotta love the "nothing heavy, just the truth" line Whose truth? Yours? You decide what the truth is? Please.
Ancient Greece believed in many gods (sun god, water god, etc.) That was their truth, was it wrong?
drock25too said:If you find what you believe to be a better way of doing something, say setting up a race car, do you not share that information with your friends?
Of course not, I wanna win!
In reply to Driven5 :
Okay, I'll accept that. Maybe your race is different than mine. But we're all trying to win. My path may be different than yours, that's where the discussion come in. Some of what I'm doing may help you. Some of what your doing may help me. Nobody has it all figured out, that's why we need each other. I know what I believe, I know where I'm headed. Doesn't mean I don't ever need help.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
If I'm trash talking you to others, yes that's wrong.
I believe there is only one Truth. I believe in only One God, so yes I believe the Ancient Greeks were wrong. You don't have to believe it.
I study a lot of the Old Testament and Jewish history. It's interesting that 6,000 years later we, being humans struggle with all the same issues. Maybe we've not come a long way, baby?
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