Lighten up, Francis (koran burning content.)

Yeah. So I wasn't paying much attention to this whack-job in flahrida trying to stir the pot, but the media won't leave it the berkeley alone (yes, I get the irony, as I'm talking about it now.)

What's interesting to me is a quick google search of "koran burning" brings up headlines that read "Interpol: Quran burning likely to trigger attacks, Top U.S. Commander: Burning koran will endanger U.S. troops, Obama says quran burning is recruitment bonanza for al qaeda," etc., etc.

So it's gone from "C'mon man, that's in really poor taste," to "Don't do it, cuz the muslims are berkeleying crazy and they'll blow our E36 M3 up."

This really bugs me. It seems like the one group (NO, I'm not saying ALL muslims,) who has zero tolerance for those who aren't like them is rapidly becoming the one group that everyone on the planet is going out of their way not to offend for fear that they might be MURDERED in retribution.

While I understand being tolerant and accepting of other cultures, I don't think the motivation behind that tolerance should be fear of violence, which almost (ALMOST) makes me want to say, "berkeley yeah man, burn that E36 M3 like it's going out of style." I mean really, at this point, if he doesn't do it, the Turrrists win, right?

A few weeks (months?) ago, after South Park did their Muhammed thing, Seth McFarlane went on Larry King, and basically said that muslims are the one group they WON'T make fun of anymore. I lost a LOT of respect for him. Couldn't find the whole interview but this will give you the gist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diW3OwMYdrk

So while I think this dude, especially as a religious leader, is a douche for burning a book that's sacred to a large group of people in the first place, what does the reaction from our country's / world leaders say about us? Have we become such pansies that we're basically begging for muslims to dominate the rest of the world? Should our leaders have just left it the hell alone, or at least not being saying E36 M3 like "Don't do it! They'll hurt us if you do!"

What do you folks think?

PS: For the record, I support the rights of douchebags everywhere to burn whatever the berkeley they want (flags, bibles, etc,) as long as it's their own stuff they're burning, and it's not being used as tinder to burn someone else's E36 M3.

A religious extremist is a bad thing in any religion.

The irony of this pastor doing this says everything about religion that needs to be said.

I feel bad for the people who don't see that.

The best thing that could happen would be for them to get to the point of burning then not do it and make a statement to the effect of:

"This is not the sort of thing we do in this country, we try to set the example, not follow the (poor) examples set by others.."

I also support his ability to do it, but I think there is WAY too much Muslim bashing these days. I am starting to think they will start building camps or doing hunts at some points. The media (we all know which ones) has a LOT to do with these sentiments... good entertainment eh?

zomby woof wrote: The irony of this pastor doing this says everything about religion that needs to be said. I feel bad for the people who don't see that.

The irony of a statement that says absolutely nothing while stating, "...this says everything about religion that needs to be said." is quite monumental.

So, I guess you are suggesting that because religious liberty permits the existence of one extremist douche bag, that all of religion is useless, all believers are similar, and anyone who can't see this profundity is an idiot.

Thanks (but no thanks) for your boundless wisdom. I sincerely hope that when you are in need someone comes to you who is the antithesis of your signature. Much to your dismay, the likelihood is that it will be a person of faith.

He's already trying to back out.

"if the prez gives me a ring-a-ling I won't do it"

worthless publicity seeking shiny happy person.

PS, how do we turn on sigs?

Religion is a lot like guns, it's not really the gun that is the problem it's the guy holding it, and no one wants one in their face.

z31maniac wrote: PS, how do we turn on sigs?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/members/edit-profile/YOURNAMEHERE/

or you can click on "my profile" from the menu on the left side of your screen, then select "edit profile" toward the bottom. Click the box for displaying signatures, and... TA DA!

While I 100% support that churches right to burn the Quran as a form of protest, I personally disagree with their reason for doing it. To much of this, "Well the Muslims are extreme, so we gotta be extreme right back!". Which doesn't solve anything. It just escalates. I don't know what the answer is to the larger "Muslims vs the World" debate. The only thing I can say for myself, is I try to be tolerate of everyone and everything as long as it doesn't endanger people who don't want to be involved in a very immediate sense (I don't care so much if you think God will burn the world for allowing gays).

But sometimes you just can't be afraid to stand and fight for what you believe, especially when someone is trying to force their beliefs on you.

That's my town! I am tempted to go with a copy of every religious book I can find and an example of every flag I can find and throw them on the fire. It's my right isn't it?

Where are the comic-con guys when you need them?

The interesting part is that the folks who most loudly defend the "rights" of the proposed Community Center builders have been absolutely silent on the "rights" of the Koran burners while virtually all of the the high profile folks that are against the Community Center are also against the Koran burners... not on their right to do so in either case, but the wisdom of doing it.

Makes one think that the first crowd really isn't concerned that much with "rights" at all if they don't show the same consideration to an act they disagree with. It's pretty easy (and not "heroic" at all) to defend the "rights" of something you actually support...

aircooled wrote: I also support his ability to do it, but I think there is WAY too much Muslim bashing these days. I am starting to think they will start building camps or doing hunts at some points. The media (we all know which ones) has a LOT to do with these sentiments... good entertainment eh?

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'll respectfully call BS on your "we all know which ones" contention.

The over-blown and over-hyped rhetoric comes from those who present either side of the issue - they are (IMO) morons. Those who subscribe to either side lower themselves to the same depths as their preferred talking heads - again IMHO.

remember, its not extremism, its an exercise in religious tolerance. or something

MrJoshua wrote: That's my town! I am tempted to go with a copy of every religious book I can find and an example of every flag I can find and throw them on the fire. It's my right isn't it? Where are the comic-con guys when you need them?

What would be even more awesome (IMO,) is if NO ONE showed up. No supporters, no protesters, no news crews, nobody. Just some sad old berkeleyer no one cares about, sittin' there with his book. Sadly, we all know that's not going to happen. What will happen is he'll berkeley up traffic for everybody during the day, and you'll have a bunch of out-of-towners berkeleying up downtown at night.

Tolerance and harmony make crappy television. If you want attention (could be translated into books, followers, donations, $$$, more attention...), you're better off going for the insult or outrage. Wanna make people ape E36 M3 crazy - go for a muslim sponsored bible burning party in manhattan

oldsaw wrote: ...The over-blown and over-hyped rhetoric comes from those who present either side of the issue - they are (IMO) morons...

Hard to argue that, but one side seems to be encouraging something far more dangerous and fundamentally un-American (in my opinion) than the other.

First, I hate you poopshovel for making me actually look this junk up. I try my darndest to ignore the mass media (hysteria?). But, I guess if it made the forums of GRM, it's worth looking at....

In all of this, I find this quote from Obama (not to bash him) on Good Morning America the most fascinating:

....is completely contrary to our values as Americans. This country has been built on the notion of freedom and religious tolerance.

Wait, we're built on the notion of freedom, but not allowed to burn a book in protest?

-Rob

aircooled wrote: Hard to argue that, but one side seems to be encouraging something far more dangerous and fundamentally un-American (in my opinion) than the other.

Did you switch sides at some point during the debate? ;-)

In some ways, it looks like we're seeing the logical sort of escalating from South Park / cartoonist death threats. Having groups like Comedy Central cave in to threats like that is going to get a lot of people mad. The way some Islamic nut jobs have made death threats towards anyone who criticizes Islam in some ways seems like it's a challenge to draw out a nut job on the other side who wants to provoke a confrontation. The pastor was on one talk show, and his response to having death threats was something along the lines of, "It's OK, we're bringing our guns if they try anything."

I agree that the pastor's being a douchebag here. On the other hand, I'm glad to see somebody finally stand up to the "Insult Islam and you die!" extremists. Just wish it was someone else who had stood up to them before we ended up with this guy.

aircooled wrote:

oldsaw wrote: ...The over-blown and over-hyped rhetoric comes from those who present either side of the issue - they are (IMO) morons...

Hard to argue that, but one side seems to be encouraging something far more dangerous and fundamentally un-American (in my opinion) than the other.

Agreed!

But, but I'm particularly disturbed by those who skewer people with opposing view-points (on the sensitivity issue) by falsely labeling them in order to advance their own view-point.

That (IMHO) is fundamentally un-American. YMMV.......

Whack jobs ruining everything for everyone. All this fuss because some idiot wants to do something stupid that will make some other idiot do something dangerous. Trouble is, the other idiot may not take it out on the first idiot.

I wish everyone would just chill out and stop trying to offend or kill everyone.

The anti-Islam thing is a no-win situation. In order to give a "berkeley you" to a few extremists you've got to give a "berkeley you" to 1.25 billion people, many of whom actually like us. If I had to insult a hundred people to make a self-righteous point with one person, I'd probably keep my damn mouth shut.

The part that drives me nuts is how the fear-mongering political machine has goals that align perfectly with extremists in the muslim world. It's in Osama bin Laden's interest for everyone to perceive America as hating 25% of the earth's population. It's in the interest of the loonies in this country to have a nice target for their hate so they can rally their supporters around a cause. All the shiny happy people win.

Sure would be nice if the media ignored this idiot and the 50 or so people that attend his church.

This is clearly a publicity stunt put on by a moron. Do we have to have this as front page news? Where is Britney Spears/ Lindsey Lohan/ Bradgelina when you need them?

Religious extremists of ANY kind from ANY religion are messed up people. They influence weak minded sheep-people to further their own crooked agendas. Someone should round them all up and put them in a giant Thunderdome. The rules would be different though: All extremists enter, NO ONE LEAVES.

I don't understand how people can be so stupid and so damn oblivious to the world and reality. These donkeys burning the Koran are just as messed up as the extremists of any other religion. They are not proving any point other than there are idiots everywhere in the world that do stupid things.

And if you look at it, (and it's been said a zillion times) the three major religions really aren't that much different. Seriously. If everyone just stayed out of other people's damn busines and kept their stupid religions and beliefs to themselves, then the world would be a better place.

Oh, and what's up with folks down in Gainesville wanting to burn everything this time of year? A few years ago, it was Challenge cars. Now, it's Korans. What's next?

Sure would be nice if the media ignored this idiot and the 50 or so people that attend his church.

I wholeheartedly agree, but I'd also argue the same could be said for the President. Obviously, he was briefed on all the questions he'd be asked in the interview. Wouldn't the proper response from the commander in chief go something like "Look honey, if I took the time to address every action of every religous whack-job in this country, I wouldn't have time to focus on the important things." ???

Or if he were to answer the question, wouldn't the appropriate response go something like "While I think that this guy's burning of the koran does nothing more than to further divide our collective culture, he's not breaking any laws." ???

Far as I can tell, he's just added a 55 gallon drum of gasoline to the koran fire.

Just sayin'. This is my problem with the whole thing. If it's a matter of 'poor taste,' which I believe it is, then so be it. Let this guy deal with the backlash. If burning a book becomes an issue of national security, maybe we should be less concerned with the guy burning the book, and more concerned with the people who are threatening to kill us.