I just wonder if some large fellow in a black suit pulled up in a black Suburban, with his little earpiece on, and told the good reverend" Do you have any idea how many Islamic terrorist crazoids are planning to kill you right now for this idiotic plan, and we won't be able to do a thing about it?" That could possibly carry some weight with the good reverend.
zomby woof wrote: Now there is some wisdom
Nah, it would be wisdom if I didn't do the same thing over and over again. Sad thing is I've spent a lot of time actually trying to figure out why people do stupid things and I honestly understand it. Yet, here I am again not 24 hours after the last episode.
What's ironic is we do this crap for the same reasons Preacher Man in FLA wants to burn books and My God I Better Than Your God boy straps a bomb to himself. It's all ego. We forget, or ignore, that we're all in this together. We have some need to prove we're somehow separate and superior. Smartest ant in the ant hill.
^You said you were done with this thread.
I will put it this way.. How many of the people who bash Muslims actually know one personally? How would you feel if the rest of the world viewed your religion by the example set forth by the westbourough baptist church?
Well, that is kind of what is happening across the world for them.
What would happen in the US bible belt of they learned that there was a group in the middle east that was going to deface something they found holy (jesus, bibles, crucifixes, etc)? I bet there would be a bit of an uproar.
Yes there is a very vocal extremist group within their faith. Much of this group is in parts of the world that seems to be behind the rest of us by at least a hundred years in development (other then trickle in outside resources). Now look at the crusades and the logic there. This is much of the reason they seem to strike out with violence to me, they dont know any other way. Which drives more people into the hands of the extremists wanting confrontation
I am not a religious person, but I respect others right to believe what they want to. All that this blind striking out does is descend us further into the problem we are in.
Debate is not about proving who is smarter... it's more usually about discussing various aspects of a given subject.
In a spirited debate by intelligent people who understand the subject they are debating, both sides should be able to come away better educated than they were before.
My goals in posting here aren't to "win", but to expose you to aspects of a subject you may not have heard before and/or to take issue with stuff "everybody knows" but which may have little basis in fact.
I am all for enraging groups of people who hold things sacred but don't respect your sacred stuff in return but this guy is just an attention whore. I am disappointed - he is not embracing chaos properly. He has no real teeth or he'd have made the announcement of his plans AT a huge roaring bonfire of Qurans, bibles, American flags, baby whales and 5th level vegans.
For the record... I laughed at the Fed guys saying it puts our troops in danger and is a recruiting bonanza for the enemy while completely missing the beautiful irony that they themselves sent them into harm's way to kill our enemies... which probably isn't endearing of itself to the motivated Arab youth.
"Properly embrace chaos"- I like that! ;-)
Apexcarver wrote: I will put it this way.. How many of the people who bash Muslims actually know one personally?
Two of my best friends, actually. One is pretty devout but not above the occasional admiration of the unclothed NJ hottie. The other is a bacon-eating, beer-swilling, pet dog having kinda guy. Both are likely to try to kill me one day - but not over anything as petty as me being a godless heathen who makes non-stop fun of thier sacred traditions (like wiping your ass with your bare hand).
Apexcarver wrote: I will put it this way.. How many of the people who bash Muslims actually know one personally? How would you feel if the rest of the world viewed your religion by the example set forth by the westbourough baptist church?
Another wacko group that should be rounded up and put in that Thunderdome I was talking about earlier. These bastards have done some stupid crap, including (but not limited to) protesting soldier's funerals,
protesting ComicCon (which was funny because it got counter protested
) and protesting the funeral of one of my favorite musicians and one of the nicest guys to walk this Earth: Ronnie James Dio. 
And yes, I know Muslims. A close friend of mine and former bandmate is a Muslim. He does not plot suicide attacks, build roadside bombs, and burn bibles. The only thing he shreds is the neck of his guitar. 
Remember folks, there are two very different sects of the Muslim faith: the Sunni and the Shiites. The Sunnis tend to be more secular, and are more tolerant and open to ideas other than a hard interpretation of the Koran. The Shiites are the more hard-core sect. They interpret the Koran in a more literal fashion than the Sunnis. And the funny thing is that neither sect is "bad". The extremists are the insane ones that act outside of these two sects, and that's no reason to hate the rest of them.
With Christianity and Judaism, there are also sub-sects, and you know what? They have extremists too. There are extremists in every subdivision of every aspect of society. Hell, there are even automotive extremists! We have all dealt with them. You know all the other message boards you guys are on? You know those die-hard annoying people that can't be told anything bad about the brand or model of car that they pray to every time they sit in the driver's seat? I'm on the NASIOC forums, and have been for years. One section I stay out of on there is the General Discussion forum, because it's 99% "Subarus are the best and only good cars EVAR!!!" or "FWD and RWD SUCK! AWD 4EVA!!!!" It's crazy. I guess it's just the way society is, and man, it is annoying.
Oh, sorry about the rant guys.
Vocal minorities are the problem in all of this. A few people say and do outrageous things trying to get their way and basically try to put everyone at each others throats. The problem is that those of us who make sense are forgotten and not heard in the loud screaming and outrageous actions of these people.
Unfortuantely, throughout history, the vast peace loving majority have routinely been rendered irrelevant by their silence.
Most Germans were peace-loving, but look at the horrors the Nazis were able to bring to the world.
Chinese Communists have killed, what, 50, 60 million people? While I'm certain most Chinese are peace-loving...
I'm sure that the vast majority of Russians were peace-loving, but look at the 10's of millions that Stalin slaughtered.
The list goes on and on.
In each of these situations, when the silent peaceful loving majority still had the power to do something about their extremists, they instead remained silent.
Later, when they no longer had the power to resist, it was too late and they became our sworn enemy, aligned against us and actively fighting us on behalf of their extremists...
It appears to me that there is little to fear from Christianity and Judaism extremists because when the occaisional fruitcake does arise, the peaceful loving majority is neither silent nor inactive, but immediately jumps to action to invalidate the extremists and their message.... little danger of a "movement" getting started.
Apexcarver wrote: What would happen in the US bible belt of they learned that there was a group in the middle east that was going to deface something they found holy (jesus, bibles, crucifixes, etc)? I bet there would be a bit of an uproar.
Short memory. We don't have to go to the middle east to find people quite happy to present gay Jesus plays, crosses in urine, nun pornography, etc. Sometimes the "artists" get US government funding. There's a reaction alright, but nothing like what fundamentalist Muslims do.
slantvaliant wrote: Short memory. We don't have to go to the middle east to find people quite happy to present gay Jesus plays, crosses in urine, nun pornography, etc. Sometimes the "artists" get US government funding. There's a reaction alright, but nothing like what fundamentalist Muslims do.
The thing is that you have to remember and keep in mind the regions of the world that some of these groups come out of. Consider that they are close to 150-200 years behind the our part of the world in a lot of ways in many of those regions.
Much of the reason that the "artists" get away with what they do is that they eased into it over the course of decades. Take the piss christ back to the 1850's and you would have a hell of a reaction. Modern US culture has become numbed to most of the crap. With much of the world you have cultures that are similar to those older cultures that in many ways are being thrust into dealing with other cultures that are quite differently.
There isnt a easy solution, but is poking a beehive the proper answer to dealing with the problem?
Apexcarver wrote: There isnt a easy solution, but is poking a beehive the proper answer to dealing with the problem?
I'm not convinced that tiptoeing around the giant hornet nest on your front porch is the appropriate long-term solution, either.
What needs to happen is that cultural extremists of all flavors need to get over themselves. It's just that at this point in time the vast majority of the angry hornets are from the 3 major Abrahamic religions.
Maybe religion will fade to the background a little more once we get through the next 50 years or so.
What would happen in the US bible belt of they learned that there was a group in the middle east that was going to deface something they found holy (jesus, bibles, crucifixes, etc)? I bet there would be a bit of an uproar.
I believe the correct answer here is "Not a Gat-damned thing." Speaking of which, it'll be interesting to see if the "mainstream" news covers the world-wide celebration tomorrow.
I digress.
As a Christian and sunday school teacher, I would like to input a few things. I had many things going through my head with all the Muslim stuff going on, including this pastor that wants to burn the Quran. I know what the Bible says and one thing I found is this: we as Christians are not to provoke anyone to anger. We should take a stand on what we believe in without fear, but doing the burning may be cause to make them want to kill. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:21. I cannot believe how Islam is making such a huge impact in the U.S. If people were burning Bibles, it would NOT be in the news that much at all. And those who did it wouldn't have to worry since we wouldn't want to kill them, why? Because Christ said "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you. Matthew 5:44. The Good Lord has blessed me in my life, and He wants to bless all people who will trust in Him. I'm NOT a religous person, I believe in Salvation.
Apexcarver wrote: There isnt a easy solution, but is poking a beehive the proper answer to dealing with the problem?
I think this is basically a successful publicity stunt by a small-time preacher, and not something I would do or care to witness. It's also not something I'm going to get worked up about.
I just drove by the site, pretty interesting seeing all of those sat trucks and the police presence.
I had an idea-this whole thing is about burning the book of another religion and everyone's anger about somebody defiling a symbol. How about a giant youtube movement where people burn a copy of their own religious book to show how unimportant the symbol is to the true meaning of the religion. Take the significance out of crazy pastor mans actions and he returns to being insignificant crazy pastor man. I would say Obama should do it, but no politician has the balls or desire for political suicide required to do it.
poopshovel wrote:MrJoshua wrote: That's my town! I am tempted to go with a copy of every religious book I can find and an example of every flag I can find and throw them on the fire. It's my right isn't it? Where are the comic-con guys when you need them?What would be even more awesome (IMO,) is if NO ONE showed up. No supporters, no protesters, no news crews, nobody. Just some sad old berkeleyer no one cares about, sittin' there with his book. Sadly, we all know that's not going to happen. What will happen is he'll berkeley up traffic for everybody during the day, and you'll have a bunch of out-of-towners berkeleying up downtown at night.
Dude!That's exactly what happened about 15 years ago when the Klan marched around here. No one showed but the Klan. It was awesome to see pics of a bigot shouting to nothing but asphalt.
Apexcarver wrote: I will put it this way.. How many of the people who bash Muslims actually know one personally? How would you feel if the rest of the world viewed your religion by the example set forth by the westbourough baptist church? Well, that is kind of what is happening across the world for them. What would happen in the US bible belt of they learned that there was a group in the middle east that was going to deface something they found holy (jesus, bibles, crucifixes, etc)? I bet there would be a bit of an uproar. Yes there is a very vocal extremist group within their faith. Much of this group is in parts of the world that seems to be behind the rest of us by at least a hundred years in development (other then trickle in outside resources). Now look at the crusades and the logic there. This is much of the reason they seem to strike out with violence to me, they dont know any other way. Which drives more people into the hands of the extremists wanting confrontation I am not a religious person, but I respect others right to believe what they want to. All that this blind striking out does is descend us further into the problem we are in.
We wouldn't care because it's there right to what they want in their country.
But I guess you say that because you are ignoring the literally THOUSANDS of people in Afghanistan that are doing exactly that right now.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6891AM20100910
I see a protest, I see no mention of bible burning. At least in that case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCpjgl2baLs
Apexcarver wrote: I see a protest, I see no mention of bible burning. At least in that case.
So, once again, (I'm just asking, seriously,) is your assertion that violent protests with threats and chants of "Death to Christians, Death to Obama," are less serious than burning a book?
The hilarity and irony continue. I've yet to hear anyone in the American media, including those evil brain-washin', 'mulim-bashing' evil-doers at "that news station" whose name everyone seems so scared to say (FOX I'm guessing?) who has referred to this pastor as anything other than a nut-job or whacko, but I haven't heard a single word about how there might be something wrong with these protesters...which kind of goes back to my original point.
What the berkeley is wrong with us as a people that we're bowing to the whims of people who want to violently murder us every time someone says or does something they don't agree with, and strictly BECAUSE we're scared that we might do something to piss them off?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11258739
In reply to poopshovel:
It makes no sense to me either. 9 years after 9/11 and they are moving in and trying to take over, with some Americans and the media helping. The media always have and always will take sides of a minority, whether right or wrong. And us Christians will always be hated by the world, that's biblical. So its no surprise to me. When I think of how America is currently, I cannot help but think of what King Solomon once said in the book of Proverbs "The complacency of fools shall destroy them." I study in the days of old how God dealt with Israel. They would worship idols made of gold and all that and He would allow them to suffer (out of love) to try and wake them up. They would turn to Him in times of trouble, He would save them (out of love), and then would turn right back to false idols. I don't know how many believe and can digest what I talk about, but its the truth. It's gonna get crazier, just make sure your ready.
I just find it hilariously ironic that the name of their church is "The Dove World Outreach Center".
Other than that, I'm of the mind that someone that the best thing everyone can do is ignore the stupid whack job.
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