Long range retirement ideas?

foxtrapper wrote: What a state doesn't charge in taxes it makes up for in fees. Caveat emptor!

And what a state doesn't collect in income taxes they'll collect in property taxes. Texas is that way, though, of course, you can limit the amount of property taxes you pay by buying a less expensive house. Rural areas generally have less property taxes than urban ones, but it varies a lot.

RX Reven pretty much nailed it-- It might be entertaining coming on a motorsports forum and asking retirement questions, but probably not very informative concerning your particular situation.

FWIW, in Texas there's a place called Motorsports Ranch that has homes next to the track with big garages. They haven't been very successful, though, as they only built a few and then stopped.

2018 thread bump!  With the various relocation threads happening lately, it prompted me to dig up this older chestnut.

Our situation has not changed radically from what I predicted before, but it has changed some:

• House paid off 100%.  Probably worth $275k-$290k as it stands.
• In the next year we will probably spend $25k-$30k on renovations, which will bump the value probably $15k-$20k but make it nicer for us to live in.
• Location is pretty good for reasonable sale prospects - near campus in a large university town, but away from the majority of student areas.
• We do not hate our location, but also do not love it.  It is getting more crowded and traffic is an issue, though of course how much we care about that will go down at retirement.  But it is not as charming as it was 20 years ago, or even 10.
• DD#2 didn't quite graduate college on time, but will in the next 3-6 months and another couple grand in tuition (currently living with us).
• DW still gainfully employed despite various mergers and layoffs; has heard enough from upper management that she feels her job is secure for the foreseeable future (barring massive corporate stupidity, which is always possible).
• DW will reach her corporate 'magic number' for full benefits in 3 years.  She does not have a full pension, but will have some, plus moderately large retirement savings. 
• I'm still gainfully employed and will be for the foreseeable future.  No pension for me, and my retirement savings is more moderate than hers, but not negligible.
• I hesitate to share our investment savings worth but it is (barely) in the 7 figures, not counting the house.  Annualized returns are in the 6% range.
• DW carries the family life insurance and my employer does not offer it.

I am 53 and DW is just turning 55.  It would be great if she could retire in 3 years, but realistically I think that is more like 5.  If I also retire at 60 that gives me 7 more years, and she will be 62 when I retire.

The biggest question remains whether we should move or just stay here in Delaware.  As I said, it's not bad, and I like the ability to drive to Philly or Baltimore in an hour, DC in 2 hours, and New York in under 3 hours.  Not that we do all that often, but it is nice to have those options.

But we're a little bored here, and as I mentioned, the local area is not as charming as it once was.  The next question is... where?

• I think we'd really like to stay in the US rather than commit to an entirely (or even largely) new culture / language / bureacracy at this point. 
• We're willing to relocate a fair distance within the US if there is a compelling reason and something to love about the new place, though pretty much both families are in the midatlantic region.
• Neither of us really likes it hot, but I can tolerate it much better than DW.
• Neither of us can stand heat AND humidity, so most of the South is out.  90+ degrees with 90% humidity is not going to work for us on an extended basis.
• I could probably make it in the Southwest, but I would have trouble convincing DW she could.
• Snow is not a requirement - in fact, I'd really prefer no snow / NO SALT - but DW is an avid knitter and it would kind of suck if it never got below 60.
• Ideal temperature range would be 40dF - 90dF, with moderate humidity in the summer, and a reasonable mix of sun and rain.

So those are the physical requirements.  The social / entertainment ones are listed in the first post, but to recap:

• We're suburbanites at heart, with a slight tendency towards more rural rather than more urban.
• An hour or two's drive outside an interesting, pleasant big city or two is ideal for day trips.
• We're not real campers / hikers / etc, but like cities, day trips to nature are good.
• We do not fly all that much, so immediate access to a major airport is not required as long as we can get to one.
• We're politically independent centerists - socially liberal but fiscally conservative - and both left and right extremes piss us off.
• We're smart, but not excessively intellectualized.  We like people who can appreciate both action movies and art films.  We do not need constant highbrow cultural stimulation, but we like a dynamic community that is open to new things.
• We're not excessively social.  We have friends but do not depend on a very active social circle.
• We're not even a little bit religious.  We can get along fine with those who are, but we don't want to live anywhere that the question of what church we attend will come up in the first 10 minutes of a new acquaintance.
• Ditto for sports.

Economic factors:

• We don't need a ton of property, but definitely want a detached house with garage / shop space and at least some yard.
• Delaware's price parity is just about dead on the national average of 100% ratio for income / cost of living.
• Delaware is # 33 / 50 for general cost of living.  We'd like to move up that chart rather than down.
• Delaware is # 28 / 50 for housing costs.  We'd definitely like to move up that chart rather than down.  I'd love to buy / build a reasonable house and garage / shop for about what I can sell out here for - say, less than $325k in today's dollars.

DW is thinking New England, but the affordability factor has me thinking farther afield, and I don't think she'd be against that.  So please make some recommendations!

Do either of you have any medical issues?  One interesting tid-bit I read recently is the Philly metro area has one of the lowest healthcare costs in the country - likely due to the sheer number of choices available.  

Where does your house fall on the scale as far as taxes go?  It seem more than income taxes, property taxes become one of a retiree's big expenses. Especially once a house is paid off and they aren't paying into an escrow account.  Now the discipline to save up for those fairly sizable bills falls on them.  I've heard of a few over the years who lacked that ability and ended up losing their house because of unpaid taxes. One reason I like my small house is the taxes are pretty cheap, so it's not terribly hard to save up for the property tax bill in April and the school tax bill in Sept. 

When I first started working in NH on assignment back in 2016 I browsed housing costs.  While NH may not have income tax, they more than make up for it in property taxes, which looked to be about double what I'm currently paying for a similar sized house/property.

In reply to Ian F :

We do not have any major medical issues.  We are both overweight but do not smoke and are not excessive drinkers.  Both families have history of cancer, diabetes, or heart issues, but all 4 of our parents were long-term smokers, and we have never been.

Our property taxes are about $3000-$3200 / year between school taxes and local taxes.  This is a 4-bedroom, 2-bath house of about 3000 sf total, maybe a little less.

Delaware has no sales tax, but does have personal inclome tax.  That runs about 6.5% of gross income.

Whew... IMHO, those taxes will be hard to beat while staying in "civilization" and not living in da 'hood.  Honestly, I'd consider that a vote for staying put.

I didn't know that about DE income tax.  In PA it's a flat-rate 2.8% although depending on spending habits, it wouldn't be hard to make up 3.6% buying stuff.

If I were to give up on living in SE Michigan I'd be moving back to Canada. Depending on post retirement income level taxes can be low to nonexistent, medical is covered, and it's cold, but I can find an old-timers hockey league no doubt.

Pacific Northwest seems to meet your climate requirements pretty well.  I’ve liked it when I visited, but the area I was in most recently (Anacortes, WA) seemed pretty pricey.  I’m sure cost of living varies significantly throughout different parts of WA and OR, though.

One of our friends is getting ready to move to Boise with her boyfriend, he raves about it. I think we are going to go try to visit them next year as we ponder what we are going to do in a few years.

With your savings and a paid off house, you could probably retire today. I can understand DW continuing to work until she's fully vested, but unless you're planning to live really extravagantly in retirement it's probably not necessary for either of you to work any longer than that 3 year timeframe.

From a tax perspective, it sounds tough to beat your current situation. Your property taxes are   around 1% of your home's value which is decently low and having no sales tax isn't very common in other parts of the US. Income taxes won't matter in retirement, so that shouldn't be a selling point or a drawback for any potential landing spots.

FWIW Zillow just sent me an email estimating my house's value at $356,000.  I'm assuming that means its actually worth about what I think it's worth - somewhere between $290k-$300k.

In reply to Duke :

I know a beautiful development in Panama that already has some of your design work in it!  

SVreX said:

In reply to Duke :

I know a beautiful development in Panama that already has some of your design work in it!  

We went over this, though - not enough large flat paved area.  And too hot.  And looking at their website's progress, I'm farily unconvinced about the actual, real-world progress as well.

In reply to Duke :

I think you are right about their real world progress (and I am very thankful I sold my interest). 

In reply to Duke :

if you have a deep attachment to Family and or Friends then you will be happiest staying where you are. If on the other hand you want something different then retirement is the perfect time to try out other places

The other thing you likely don’t want to do is  go where everything is cheap.   Poor is another word for cheap and poor tends to not be good. More desperate, service, health care is inferior.  It’s not nice or good.  

I’m sure you’ve heard of bi-coastal.   Split living between east coast and west coast . Except it’s not cheap or even really affordable for the middle class. 

Have you thought of North and South?  Southern states tend to have oppressive heat and humidity in the summer and Northern states  suffer from 4 letter words like snow and cold in the winter.   But winter in the south can be pleasant. Summer up North is really nice.  

To do that you need to find modest price living places that aren’t cheap. Places where families can work and be rewarded for their work. 

You mention you like college communities.   Smart ambitious people eager to learn raise the tone and standards at a modest cost because college kids know value.    Since they want to get ahead they don’t tend to be destructive or  shallow.  Even those with those tendency’s are discouraged from acting that way because of the values and upbringing of their peers. 

That’s your answer  find a nice college town in the North and live there during the summer. Then rent it out  through the fall and winter..  do the opposite down south.  

Here’s a start off suggestion.  Madison Wisconsin or the suburbs.   Austin Texas  

The nice thing about an approach like this is you get to find out for yourself where you’d feel most comfortable. Whichever feels the best for you is where you spend your final years  

Edit: read page one and didn't check the dates. Saw Curmudgeon's name in the convo, and had a brief sad.  Anyway... 

High five to you, Duke.

Your life description sounds like a dead ringer for mine. Especially regards religion and politics. Even the job... and a wife with a pension on the horizon. Same.  I am only 47 though .. and staring down the barrel of eight years of college costs between my two boys. 

My folks live in Amish country Ohio. They started the snow bird life when I lived in Tampa 12 years ago. They camped for a few winters then bought a double wide modular house in a 55+ park. It was remarkably cheap - $55k furnished in Wimauma, Fl.  Half hour from Bradenton and Tampa. Grocery 3 miles away.  Beach 45 minutes. They love it, and they love going back north for the hottest months. Same house can still be bought way below $100k. 1500sf, 3br, 2ba with a double carport and a small shop. 

TL;dr - 2nd home may not be as crazy as it seems if you find the right spot. 

Likewise your situation sounds similar to ours. There are a lot of people in our age group right now and I bet a lot of them have similar stories. Life has treated us well.

I was going to retire last year and couldn't wait for it

I'm 56, will have a small work pension, under $1k/mo but have decent savings. She was a stay at home mom who works part time now. She will stay there indefinitely, she loves it, though no work pension. My government pension will be about $1600/mo. Not sure about hers. The farm is worth the better part of seven figures now and it was paid off a dozen years ago. We were going to cash it in,  double our savings and split our time between the Caribbean in winter and a small place around here or some other rural location. But I just can't walk away from an easy good paying job. I was so looking forward to retiring and now I'm not sure what I'm going to do and when I'm going to do it. Part of it is my Scottish and Welsh heritage not allowing me to walk away from the money. I'm terrified of not having an income. The other part is that I'm not really sure what I want to do. We don't really have any close friends, and our kids are not keeping us here. Half the year on a beautiful island in the Caribbean sounds great, but what will I do, sit around and drink cheap rum? Probably. I need some sort of home infrastructure. A shop, a project.

So for now I keep working,  building bikes and cars and trying to figure out what to do and when to do it.

frenchyd said:

In reply to Duke :

if you have a deep attachment to Family and or Friends then you will be happiest staying where you are. If on the other hand you want something different then retirement is the perfect time to try out other places

The other thing you likely don’t want to do is  go where everything is cheap.   Poor is another word for cheap and poor tends to not be good. More desperate, service, health care is inferior.  It’s not nice or good.  

I’m sure you’ve heard of bi-coastal.   Split living between east coast and west coast . Except it’s not cheap or even really affordable for the middle class. 

Have you thought of North and South?  Southern states tend to have oppressive heat and humidity in the summer and Northern states  suffer from 4 letter words like snow and cold in the winter.   But winter in the south can be pleasant. Summer up North is really nice.  

To do that you need to find modest price living places that aren’t cheap. Places where families can work and be rewarded for their work. 

You mention you like college communities.   Smart ambitious people eager to learn raise the tone and standards at a modest cost because college kids know value.    Since they want to get ahead they don’t tend to be destructive or  shallow.  Even those with those tendency’s are discouraged from acting that way because of the values and upbringing of their peers. 

That’s your answer  find a nice college town in the North and live there during the summer. Then rent it out  through the fall and winter..  do the opposite down south.  

Here’s a start off suggestion.  Madison Wisconsin or the suburbs.   Austin Texas  

The nice thing about an approach like this is you get to find out for yourself where you’d feel most comfortable. Whichever feels the best for you is where you spend your final years  

 

I'm not sure I'd consider the 11th most populous city in the US (and still only 4th largest in Texas) a "college town."

In reply to z31maniac :

Could be ( regarding Austin Texas ) it’s just one I thought of off the top of my head. Never been there.

I’m certainly open for another southern college town that’s better

@Duke Tulsa, OK and from what I’ve read here Huntsville, Alabama could work well for you. Both are small to medium sized cities with good cost of living and enough going on to keep things interesting I think. 

Do you guys want to travel? Living somewhere with 9 months of nice weather and 3 months to avoid would give you a home base and a built in excuse to get on the road. 

My dad has been going back and forth between Hawaii and the Washington coast/Puget Sound for the last couple years plus visits up to Alaska to see his grandkids. He likes both but has been priced out of living in Seattle unfortunately because he liked it a lot. 

Is it an option to downsize your current house but staying in your area but in a neighborhood you like better?  Have you considered building a house/shop new instead of buying?  That way you get what you want more or less where you want it, and as long as it has 3 bedrooms shouldn’t be too hard to sell should the need arise or your kids have to take care of it. 

In reply to skierd :

Wow, your dad got priced out of Seattle, but Hawaii is still OK?  Yikes! 

As far as staying in this area, we couldn’t really replace this house for what we have invested in it.  We couldn’t downsize enough to save enough money to make it really worth moving.  We could probably reallocate the value of this house pretty well by moving downstate in Delaware, to pick up a ship and a little land at no extra cost.

That might work for building a new place.  I am an architect, so I would love to design our house from the ground up.  But around here that’s an easy way to mean a $300,000 house / property is actually a $450,000 house / property. Land values are pretty high because greenfield development is rampant. 

I would look into some of the college towns along I-81 in VA. Getting up into the mountains a bit helps with the heat/humidity situation here, and you would be under 2 hours from DC from the northern half of 81 in VA (between Harrisonburg and Winchester).  SWMBO and I have been to Winchester for weekend getaways quite a bit and really enjoy it.  Lots of great driving roads, a less anti-intellectual climate than most of the rest of rural VA, four real seasons, both nature and city are easily day-trippable.

But... but... it’s Virginia. I kind of have a chip on my shoulder about Virginia, Virginians, and especially Virginia cops. I guess if I wasn’t an out-of-stater, the cops might not be so bad. I would have to visit and see if I could overcome my prejudices.  It is pretty down there in some places.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, Virginians are just Southern Masshiny happy people. And Virginia cops are the worst. 

[edit] I didn’t know you were from Virginia, so there’s hope that not everybody there fits my stereotype. It’s mostly me I guess. I did almost go to UVA. 

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, and liked it down there. We lived there a few years when we were first married, and we would go back. But that location limits the cultural life a little too much, maybe. 

That’s kind of the same problem with “slower lower” Delaware. 

My plan is to live like those before me.  I will stay in my house until something drastic happens (gypsies robbed grandma, dad fell and laid in yard for a day) all along enduring the cold Chicago winters and high taxes. 

Seriously we might move where my son ends up - my plan is to live in his garage apartment and do his yard and maintenance work since he is not really handy in this area.  During my off times I will be working on my Datsun 510. 

Not looking for anything extravagant. 

Duke said:

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, and liked it down there. We lived there a few years when we were first married, and we would go back. But that location limits the cultural life a little too much, maybe. 

That’s kind of the same problem with “slower lower” Delaware. 

Here in flyover land we recognize the need for art and culture. There is a small town in southeastern Minnesota that is currently conducting a Shakespeare festival with not only original Shakespeare but also modern interpretations of it.  They’ve actually received recognition and it’s a growing festival. 

Minneapolis/St Paul is third or fourth in theaters depending on which ones are opening and which are closing.  We not only have every professional sport we also have art and classical music