It was brought up/mentioned in the tax thread, I've looked around but have found mostly conflicting info......
......just curious what income levels divide the three classes? What do the advertisers in GRM consider?
etc.
I do NOT want this to turn into a political cry-fest, just curious what is considered middle class, upper-middle, etc.
I would argue that it's got less to do with income than it has with accumulated wealth.
Someone who pulls in a couple of million but spends most of it to maintain the social facade might be considered upper class on the way to lower class if life happens.
Good point, but I think that may over-complicate what I'm curious about.
BoxheadTim wrote: I would argue that it's got less to do with income than it has with accumulated wealth. Someone who pulls in a couple of million but spends most of it to maintain the social facade might be considered upper class on the way to lower class if life happens.
Good point, but I would also argue it's got a lot to do with how you view yourself. It comes down to the old division of white coller Vs blue coller. I know people who earn(ed) $80 (old UAM line workers) who considered themselves working calss, yet I also know people who earn $40k and consider themselves middle class.
A lot depends on where you choose to live and how you 'advertise' your 'status'
Hard to say... I know people with a net worth of over $1m who are definitely "middle class."
People who make more than me are upper class. People who make less than me are working class. I am middle class.
I think that is the prevailing thought and is the only way to explain how some folks making $400,00/yr consider themselves just average joes. They certainly are compared to the top 0.1%, but to the 99.1% below them, they sure seem pretty well off.
My post reminds me of a George Carlin bit about drivers.
Ian F wrote: Hard to say... I know people with a net worth of over $1m who are definitely "middle class."
Ditto, good point. I know people who admitidly earn somewhere in the $120-150k range, but have several years woth of debt, 4-5 cars, guns, multiple acres, several new computers, iPads, new iPhoneS every couple of years,are a couple of years behind on paying private school fees etc, etc, but 'project' and 'upper middle class' lifestyle. I have no idea how they survive.
I also know people who have multiple millions in the bank, live of the interest, have a paid for house, don't go on vacation, have a pair of 150k mile cars etc etc, but don't project an afluant lifestyle.
I really think a lot of it is how people want (make that feel they need) to be seen by others.
BTW I heard something on the radio a year or so ago about happiness, they said that once your family income reach $80K, happiness didnt' increas with wealth beyond that point.
T.J. wrote: People who make more than me are upper class. People who make less than me are working class. I am middle class. I think that is the prevailing thought and is the only way to explain how some folks making $400,00/yr consider themselves just average joes. They certainly are compared to the top 0.1%, but to the 99.1% below them, they sure seem pretty well off. My post reminds me of a George Carlin bit about drivers.
What about the 0.8% between your 99.1% and the other 0.1% you mention?
Asking people isn't going to get you an accurate answer. I've read where studies have done just this, and something like 95% of people will answer "middle," when clearly the whole country is not middle class.
I, however, will most certainly admit that I am poor as crap. A GRM subscription and the occasional case of beer are the only things I buy that aren't rent and electricity.
I was really more interested in annual income as an easy measure.
Just curious what people have read, etc. I think I've read the middle class, on average, to be considered anywhere from $35k/yr to $125k/yr for a household. Read others that put it at $45k-$90k/yr.
It varies widely by region, with cost of living. For example, $30K might be middle class in a small town in the midwest, but it's much less likely to qualify as such in Manhattan. IIRC, there are also qualifiers based on how many people that money needs to support -- one working parent supporting a spouse and 4 kids is different from a single guy by himself.
The Federal govt defines 'poverty' here:
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/11poverty.shtml
Money can't buy class.
I've met folks that are loaded and whine about every penny, and dirt poor folks that will give the shirt off their back to help out.
low/mid/upper is largely an opinion. Can it vary by needs? A single person could be comfortable on 30K a year, add a non-working spouse and 3 kids the going gets rough....
I read an article last year that stated $250k annually and above was Upper.
I'd also say that to truly be an accurate measurement, income needs to be weighed against cost of living. For example, around here you can live a comfortable life and raise a family for $60k/yr, but I know there are other areas where you'd go broke trying to do that.
I'm going to say it is less about gross income and more about what you are able to do with your money. There is also a difference between a lower/upper/middle class income and a lower/upper/middle class lifestyle.
I would define middle class as being able to reasonably and comfortably provide for yourself all the sort of standard things in our society: nice home (whether you rent or buy), no concerns about food (and probably the ability to eat out), own and maintain vehicles in good condition, ability to buy new clothes with some frequency, free money to engage in a few hobbies/vacations/etc., ability to put money aside for savings.
Lower class would be not making enough money that doing those things is a serious struggle.
Upper class is when you have enough wealth that the middle class basics are so easy for you to attain that you don't even need to worry about them. You can do things like taking an expensive vacation, eating a fancy meal out, or buying a vehicle without really any budget concerns. You give that as much consideration as a middle class person gives taking a weekend trip by car, eating a basic meal out, or something like that.
Take something GRM like Spec Racing as a good example. You can do racing on a middle-class income. It's not too hard, but you'll need to make some sacrifices, and you need to keep an eye on your finances to be sure you balance everything. Lower class, you would not have the money to do it. Upper class, you've got enough disposable wealth that you would not need to be concerned at all about spec racing.
What the actual dollar figures for all that are, I couldn't say exactly. It depends a lot on number of people, region, etc.
If your name is on your shirt you're lower class.
If your name is on your desk you're middle class.
if your name is on your building you're upper class.
This exudes class. Ample in both upper and lower.
just find a girl who isnt all silicone..... like scarlett johanson and we are good,
^^^ Don't pick on Coco. She payed a lot of money to have that much....class. 
Salanis wrote: Take something GRM like Spec Racing as a good example. You can do racing on a middle-class income. It's not too hard, but you'll need to make some sacrifices, and you need to keep an eye on your finances to be sure you balance everything. Lower class, you would not have the money to do it. Upper class, you've got enough disposable wealth that you would not need to be concerned at all about spec racing.
For some of us, even autocross feels painful, and entering a local (i.e. no travel/lodging expenses) crapcan race is an aspirational dream.
petegossett wrote: I read an article last year that stated $250k annually and above was Upper. I'd also say that to truly be an accurate measurement, income needs to be weighed against cost of living. For example, around here you can live a comfortable life and raise a family for $60k/yr, but I know there are other areas where you'd go broke trying to do that.
Your right it s all about where you live and your expectations. For me 250K is not even upper middle class. Its drop dead middle class.
US Census 2005
Lowest fifth $0 - $18,500
Second fifth $18-500 - $34,738
Middle fifth $34,738 - $55,331
Fourth fifth $55,331 - $88,030
Highest fifth $88,030 -
In reply to Otto Maddox:
And then plug those into a cost of living tool. San Diego is 139% of average, so middle class would be $48,286 - $76,910.
(The tool I looked at says San Diego housing is 224% the national average. Ouch!)
wearymicrobe wrote:petegossett wrote: I read an article last year that stated $250k annually and above was Upper. I'd also say that to truly be an accurate measurement, income needs to be weighed against cost of living. For example, around here you can live a comfortable life and raise a family for $60k/yr, but I know there are other areas where you'd go broke trying to do that.Your right it s all about where you live and your expectations. For me 250K is not even upper middle class. Its drop dead middle class.
wearymicrobe wrote: Your right it s all about where you live and your expectations. For me 250K is not even upper middle class. Its drop dead middle class.
You are telling me that there are places in the US where $100k per year doesn't buy you a nice life? BullE36 M3.
Yes, you might not be able to have the McMansion on that budget, but certainly a nice condo and a nice car. I mean, $100k might not go far for a husband supporting a stay at home mom and a kid in downtown New York, but how about you provide some examples of how hard done by you are earning $250k per year? Middle class is not defined as "in comparison to the people around you", what a ridiculous notion.
Sorry, but once again, it reminds me of that cracked article (rich people bitching about how they aren't rich and are just as hard done by as anyone else). Anyone earning over $80k per year has it easy, simple as that. They can afford to live comfortably, which is more than 75% of people in your country can say.
HiTempguy wrote: Sorry, but once again, it reminds me of that cracked article (rich people bitching about how they aren't rich and are just as hard done by as anyone else). Anyone earning over $80k per year has it easy, simple as that. They can afford to live comfortably, which is more than 75% of people in your country can say.
If you are just supporting yourself, it is easy to live comfortable on $54k.
HiTempguy wrote: Sorry, but once again, it reminds me of that cracked article (rich people bitching about how they aren't rich and are just as hard done by as anyone else). Anyone earning over $80k per year has it easy, simple as that. They can afford to live comfortably, which is more than 75% of people in your country can say.
If you are just supporting yourself, you can live easily on $54k.
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