Libya: Did It Change a Thing?

Article said: TRIPOLI — Several loyalists of slain Libyan dictator Moamer Kadhafi have been tortured and some have even died in detention centres run by armed militias, human rights groups said on Thursday. Amnesty International said that despite promises, Libya's new rulers have made "no progress to stop the use of torture", as Doctors Without Borders suspended its work in the third-largest city of Misrata over similar claims. Their accusations come after a top UN official raised concerns that armed militias comprising former rebels who helped topple Kadhafi were posing increasing security risk as they regularly clashed with each other. "Several detainees have died after being subjected to torture in Libya in recent weeks and months amid widespread torture and ill-treatment of suspected pro-Kadhafi fighters and loyalists," Amnesty said in a statement. It said its delegates met detainees held in Tripoli, in Misrata and in smaller towns such as Ghariyan who showed visible signs of torture inflicted in recent days and weeks. "The torture is being carried out by officially recognised military and security entities, as well by a multitude of armed militias operating outside any legal framework," it said. Donatella Rouvera, senior adviser at London-based Amnesty, said in the statement that it was "horrifying to find that there has been no progress to stop the use of torture". "We are not aware of any proper investigations into cases of torture," she said. Detainees told Amnesty they had been beaten for hours with whips, cables, plastic hoses, metal chains, bars, wooden sticks and given electric shocks with live wires. The rights watchdog said the detainees, both Libyans and foreigners from sub-Saharan Africa, were tortured soon after they were seized by armed militias in officially recognised detention centres in places like Misrata. Misrata withstood a devastating siege by Kadhafi's forces during last year's uprising. Its fighters later unleashed a fierce attack on the dictator's hometown of Sirte, where he was killed on October 20. "Several detainees have died in the custody of armed militias in and around Tripoli and Misrata in circumstances that suggest torture," Amnesty added. Rouvera said the issue was aggravated as the police and judiciary remained "dysfunctional" cross Libya. Doctors Without Borders, meanwhile, said it has suspended its work in Misrata . "Detainees in the Libyan city of Misrata are being tortured and denied urgent medical care, leading the international medical humanitarian organisation Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) to suspend its operations in detention centres in Misrata," the group said, referring to itself by its French name. It said its doctors were increasingly confronted with patients who suffered injuries caused by "torture" during questioning. "The interrogations were held outside the detention centres," it said. MSF general director Christopher Stokes said some officials have sought to exploit and obstruct its work in Misrata. "Patients were brought to us in the middle of interrogation for medical care, in order to make them fit for further interrogation. This is unacceptable," he said. "Our role is to provide medical care to war casualties and sick detainees, not to repeatedly treat the same patients between torture sessions." On Wednesday, the UN special representative in Libya, Ian Martin, expressed concern about the militias which he said were not under the control of the interim government. Speaking to the UN Security Council, Martin said fighting in the Libyan town of Bani Walid this week -- at one stage blamed on Kadhafi loyalists -- had been caused by a clash between local people and a revolutionary brigade unit. "Although authorities have successfully contained these and other more minor incidents that continue to take place across the country on a regular basis, there is the ever present possibility that similar outbreaks of violence could escalate," he said. Libya's new authorities are struggling to reintegrate tens of thousands of these militia fighters into the army and police.

So I guess overthrowing dictatorships isn't all sunshine and rainbows. Is anyone else worried that whatever rises out the ashes of this revolts is going to be worse than the admittedly awful regimes that have already or are still falling?

Hey, stop that political talk!

And yes. I share your fears. There's a reason that seemingly intelligent people can be found to voice support for crazy dictators in their countries... they know the alternative could be even worse.

What we need is for people to stop sucking. Duh.

Margie

Marjorie Suddard wrote: What we need is for people to stop sucking.

That happens right after they get married.

Zing!

Marjorie Suddard wrote: Hey, stop that political talk!

Sorry, it had to be done.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: What we need is for people to stop sucking.

That happens right after they get married.

You sir, are a sick, sick man.

Now I'm confused, who got married?

Can I mention that George Soros is planning on making OWS violent this year? Like riots and stuff? He said so. That's not political, is it? It should be "warning to the masses," not "political talk."

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

At least this is a US friendly torturous regime.

Toyman01 wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: What we need is for people to stop sucking.

That happens right after they get married.

You sir, are a sick, sick man.

It's a fact that wedding cake is the single most destructive force to the female libido.

Libya is a mess, like Iraq there's all kinds of different groups trying to claw their way to the top. It will shake itself out but I have a feeling we won't like what's left.

Dr. Hess wrote: Can I mention that George Soros is planning on making OWS violent this year? Like riots and stuff? He said so. That's not political, is it? It should be "warning to the masses," not "political talk."

I thought he said he thought it could become violent, not that he had an evil master plan to make it so.

In reply to Otto Maddox:

He was twirling a cartoonishly evil mustache when he said it, so make of that what you will.

Here's the article. Read it yourself and draw your own conclusions.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/soros-occupy-to-turn-violent/

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Marjorie Suddard wrote: What we need is for people to stop sucking.

That happens right after they get married.

Dan and Wendy were standing at the altar, and Dan was thinking to himself, "As soon as I say 'I do', I can get all the blow jobs I want."

At the same time, Wendy was thinking to herself, "As soon as I say 'I do', I'll never have to give another blow job in my life."

Dr. Hess wrote: Here's the article. Read it yourself and draw your own conclusions. http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/soros-occupy-to-turn-violent/

Good lord, that is a scary website. Still not seeing what you see in the article. But it turns out evolution is a hoax. So, that is good to know.

Does military intervention in countries ever change a thing?

Otto Maddox wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: Here's the article. Read it yourself and draw your own conclusions. http://www.wnd.com/2012/01/soros-occupy-to-turn-violent/

Good lord, that is a scary website. Still not seeing what you see in the article. But it turns out evolution is a hoax. So, that is good to know.

Hahahaha that's exactly what I was thinking!

Joshua wrote: Does military intervention in countries ever change a thing?

Yes it does just not when you replace a despot with religious fanatics who are more brutal.

ThePhranc wrote:

Joshua wrote: Does military intervention in countries ever change a thing?

Yes it does just not when you replace a despot with religious fanatics who are more brutal.

See most of Europe as an example.

ThePhranc wrote:

Joshua wrote: Does military intervention in countries ever change a thing?

Yes it does just not when you replace a despot with religious fanatics who are more brutal.

Touche! I was referring to more third world countries...

Remember when we supported Gaddafi? We always support these dictators as long as they do what we want, but the clock always runs out...

Joshua wrote:

ThePhranc wrote:

Joshua wrote: Does military intervention in countries ever change a thing?

Yes it does just not when you replace a despot with religious fanatics who are more brutal.

Touche! I was referring to more third world countries... Remember when we supported Gaddafi? We always support these dictators as long as they do what we want, but the clock always runs out...

It might work in places other than Africa and the Middle East. Tribal mind set is so ingrained in those places that revenge trumps reform.