Ranger50 said:In reply to Racebrick :
You missed the part where they will not renew the lease and pull out a laundry list of why they aren't renewing. That's a "no dollar" way of moving you out.
Even if there isn't a renewal contract agreement, if the renter decides not to move out on their own there still must be an eviction to remove them.
aircooled said:bentwrench said:More and more business wants to pass off the cost of doing business to the customer.....
Uhmmm... who exactly is supposed to pay for the cost of running a business then? The customer always pays (costs, overhead labor etc), that is a basic concept of a business.
That's not exactly true.
Regarding the 3.49% charge for using a credit card, businesses have historically eaten the charges for credit purchases, in order to enable more purchases by a customer using a credit card (since most people carry credit cards, and few people carry lots of cash).
(Yes, I am aware that the reality was that the fees were charged to all customers, including cash customers). The core idea was it was a convenience to the MERCHANT, and increased sales, therefore paying fees to process credit cards was a worthwhile investment.
Now, companies are changing and starting to charge customers for using their credit cards. That amounts to an upcharge, plain and simple.
Additionally however, 3.49% is a high fee. Processing fees vary from 1.5%- 3.5% based on the CREDIT WORTHINESS OF THE BUSINESS. A business that is paying 3.49% processing fees has bad credit, and is being charged a high fee because they are a risk. Passing this on to the customer as a fee is dishonest. It's simply an upcharge because the business has bad credit, and DOES NOT need to be charged to all customers.
In reply to SV reX :
Veering even further off topic... I had always heard that the merchant agreement stipulated that the merchant wasn't allowed to charge customers more for using a credit card or give them a discount for paying cash. Was that ever true? I've seen a lot of fuel stations - especially truck stops - advertising different prices for cash and credit in the last few years so I'm guessing that either I heard/remembered wrongly or they've changed something.
Oh please.................for $2.50 a month you're gonna go to all this hassle and sturm and drang?
Pay the fee, consider it part of your rent and go on with your life.
In reply to SV reX :
I dont think that always true. Ive ran multiple businesses and our fees were always pretty similar. Ive routinely had to cut checks well over 10K a month in transaction fees. Im torn on whether to charge the customer upfront or just consider it a cost of doing business, we always accounted for it and it wasnt a surprise, but most small businesses aren't ran very well, and I can see a small business owner who hasnt accounted for it and is running slim margins be surprised at the end of the month when he owes someone a couple grand, and its easier for him to just charge the customer whatever he's charged.
SV reX said:
.....Regarding the 3.49% charge for using a credit card, businesses have historically eaten the charges for credit purchases, in order to enable more purchases by a customer using a credit card (since most people carry credit cards, and few people carry lots of cash).
(Yes, I am aware that the reality was that the fees were charged to all customers, including cash customers). The core idea was it was a convenience to the MERCHANT, and increased sales, therefore paying fees to process credit cards was a worthwhile investment....
Either way, the business has costs. The business charges customers. Done.
They may vary what they charge customers based on different conditions (i.e. rob Peter to pay Paul), but they are still charging customers.
The above example could also be interpreted (as I normally do and you sort of noted) as: Credit card charges are built into the cost of business, we just don't discount cash customers... essentially screwing them a bit.
Also as noted, I have also heard businesses are not allowed to do cash discounts per their CC contracts (?) Obvious reason why CC companies would do this, but it's still screwing the cash customer and is essentially a "tax" on all transactions that most don't realize.
MiniDave said:Oh please.................for $2.50 a month you're gonna go to all this hassle and sturm and drang?
Pay the fee, consider it part of your rent and go on with your life.
That is what they are counting on. Multiply that by the 10K (or whatever) users and it adds up
Steve_Jones said:That is what they are counting on. Multiply that by the 10K (or whatever) users and it adds up
Exactly. They want people to be quiet and go along with it. If it were me, I'd find out what properties they own and have already dropped fliers inciting non-compliance off. More angry people is better position of leverage than one angry person.
MiniDave said:Oh please.................for $2.50 a month you're gonna go to all this hassle and sturm and drang?
Pay the fee, consider it part of your rent and go on with your life.
This type of attitude is why businesses continue to do this more all the time.
Standard contract verbiage I had to add to our Client agreements because they want to charge me for their payment to me.
Costs incurred by *********, Inc. due to the Client, or their designated representative, using a third-party payment service, will be billed to the Client at cost plus twenty percent (20%). This includes payments made by credit cards of any type or other payment services that deduct a fee from the payment received by ********, Inc.
The system is so broken. It is being sold to owners as a "free to them service". Nothing is free.
Sending them their first bill for these charges is always funny. Some just pay it while others call us wondering about it. One or two didn't even know that their payment service does this as they were also paying a fee for each payment.
On large jobs, this can be real money and if I include it in a proposal it can be the difference between me getting or not getting the job.
I look at it as if I am just one-upping them at their own game.
I can not believe that it is legal to do this for a rent payment. Especially if it is not spelled out in the rental agreement. I could see this being a class-action law suite waiting to happen.
I think all you keyboard lawyers need to lighten up - it's a fee. Yes we're being hit with fees for everything in life these days, but what are the alternatives? Rent somewhere else? if the fee isn't spelled out separately it's in the rent - one way or another.
Buy a place? Then you get to pay all sorts of new "fees", called taxes.
I mean, $2.50 a month is just not enough to get this upset about.....
I agree with the principle of the matter, and it's infuriating, but the reality is the amount they jack up your rent next term will far exceed the CC fees. Unfortunately housing demand has far outpaced supply for many years and this is the result.
In reply to MiniDave :
The alternative is to take a check or cash, or ACH transfer.
MiniDave said:I think all you keyboard lawyers need to lighten up - it's a fee. Yes we're being hit with fees for everything in life these days, but what are the alternatives? Rent somewhere else? if the fee isn't spelled out separately it's in the rent - one way or another.
Buy a place? Then you get to pay all sorts of new "fees", called taxes.
I mean, $2.50 a month is just not enough to get this upset about.....
I can just as easily say people that accept this type of treatment need to toughen up and stop bending over so readily.
Racebrick said:MiniDave said:I think all you keyboard lawyers need to lighten up - it's a fee. Yes we're being hit with fees for everything in life these days, but what are the alternatives? Rent somewhere else? if the fee isn't spelled out separately it's in the rent - one way or another.
Buy a place? Then you get to pay all sorts of new "fees", called taxes.
I mean, $2.50 a month is just not enough to get this upset about.....
I can just as easily say people that accept this type of treatment need to toughen up and stop bending over so readily.
How about we actually care about porch building instead of passing the buck while continuing to get fleeced to "help the children" or whatever mantra out there?
Sure it's "dirty" business, but if you have a promised 5% return and you produce 4.99%, you're bankrupt and out of business. Thank you private equity.
I found a way to make a living, so can you. I'll stop there because I hear the concrete mixer running.
Unfortunately this is the direction management software is going. I was shopping for a new program and found that most were going to a subscription platform. I had one try to sell me on the "no cost to you" but my tenants would end up paying as much as 3.5% to process a payment. I said that is worse than using a credit card machine and would add about $50 to the rent!
With all the methods to move cash for free, or pennies per transaction, these are just BS fees that go to the software company, not the management company. Bitch to the management for being too cheap to pay per unit flat rates for software.
Time to start pouring grease down the drain (except bacon grease, save that for cooking)
Ranger50 said:STM317 said:Too many middle men in this economy
That's where a large bulk of money hides in plain sight.
Case in point, I reached out to a small manufacturer of a few products that I need. I immediately got shuffled off to a "regional" supplier. I get that maybe they don't want to deal with someone who isn't buying 10000 widgets at a time when I want only 500. At the same time, I don't want to play a game of markup either. Look at the parts that line the shelves at the FLAPS.... Those are already 2 or 3 steps away from the manufacturer with either an end user or yet another "middle man", aka the garage, putting in said part. Each of them are going to tack on some sort of charge with each handoff.
Each of those "middlemen" is providing additional service that the previous layer isn't interested in doing. Warehousing stuff, taking and fulfilling consumer orders, managing retail shelf space, and installing parts all cost money, they aren't free. So yes, they're charging a markup, but with an honest accounting you'll probably find that most of what they're charging is to cover their costs for providing those services.
MiniDave said:I think all you keyboard lawyers need to lighten up - it's a fee. Yes we're being hit with fees for everything in life these days, but what are the alternatives? Rent somewhere else? if the fee isn't spelled out separately it's in the rent - one way or another.
Buy a place? Then you get to pay all sorts of new "fees", called taxes.
I mean, $2.50 a month is just not enough to get this upset about.....
I'm with you on this one. I don't disagree at all about what other people are saying. It's stupid, outrageous, and just a money grab. However, for $2.50 a month I have much bigger things in my life to worry about than that.
My wife and I just sold both of our houses and are now renting a house. To be honest, I couldn't be happier at the moment. We are about to relocate and so for now I'm okay paying rent. I don't want to pay 7% interest and when we're ready to make the final move, we will buy something.
MiniDave said:I think all you keyboard lawyers need to lighten up - it's a fee. Yes we're being hit with fees for everything in life these days, but what are the alternatives? Rent somewhere else? if the fee isn't spelled out separately it's in the rent - one way or another.
Buy a place? Then you get to pay all sorts of new "fees", called taxes.
I mean, $2.50 a month is just not enough to get this upset about.....
If it's not explicitly spelled out in the lease agreement, then the rental place is violating their contract. Contract violations are contract violations, and you know damn well if as a renter Mr. Asa violated the contract he'd be out on his ass, so expecting the people who made the contract to live up to their end is quite literally the bare minimum they can do.
Turning rents into ticket master fees because they know you don't have any other option starts with one little fee, and just let's it grow.
Still better than airbnb where an $80 night can turn into a $500 fiasco, but not really all that different.
There is certainly room to have a base price plus fees when you have an option to consume an additional product or service that wouldn't be included in the base price. Or when there's a reason to have a variable price because of how the product or service is consumed. I'm okay, for example, with a towing service charging $X plus a $y per-mile fee for a tow. Or for shipping to cost $200, but if you need a liftgate truck there's an extra $200 fee for that. Other than that sort of situation, I don't give a damn what your cost of doing business is on a line-item basis. Can you imagine walking in to the grocery store and pricing a can of beans where they show a price of $0.01 for the beans but break out a planting fee, a fertilizer fee, a harvesting fee, some transportation fees, logo-design fee, marketing fee, can fee, and so on? Figure out what it costs you to bring your product to market, determine what you think I'll pay for it while you're making a profit, and stick a price tag on it. That's it. If your cost of doing business and need to show a profit means that you need to tack on $10 to the price of a ticket, okay fine. But make the ticket $10 more expensive when you sell it to me. Don't call it a "convenience fee" unless there is an inconvenient way for me to get the ticket without paying the fee.
The landlord/property management company had a job to manage their risk when they created the rental contract. If they failed to anticipate a real increase in cost then they have the option to ask for a renegotiation or to decline to renew the contract when it expires. I can completely understand why they may want to outsource the payment operations and why they don't want to deal with people needing to come in to the office to drop off or send via mail checks. I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to deal with cash. But if that is going to cost then $2.50/month/account, then they should raise the cost of the monthly rent. If I can't get the main product without also paying the "fee", it's not a damned fee it's part of the product. The contract language should specify the way in which payment can be made and if they were managing their risk appropriately, there should be a clause that allows them to add a surcharge for payment processing in the event that their processor increases fees, etc etc and so forth.
I could see that being a little bit trickier, however, if the contract called out that a certain payment processor must be used or that they carved out a clause that allows them to choose and change how payments are accepted.
RevRico said:MiniDave said:I think all you keyboard lawyers need to lighten up - it's a fee. Yes we're being hit with fees for everything in life these days, but what are the alternatives? Rent somewhere else? if the fee isn't spelled out separately it's in the rent - one way or another.
Buy a place? Then you get to pay all sorts of new "fees", called taxes.
I mean, $2.50 a month is just not enough to get this upset about.....
If it's not explicitly spelled out in the lease agreement, then the rental place is violating their contract. Contract violations are contract violations, and you know damn well if as a renter Mr. Asa violated the contract he'd be out on his ass, so expecting the people who made the contract to live up to their end is quite literally the bare minimum they can do.
Turning rents into ticket master fees because they know you don't have any other option starts with one little fee, and just let's it grow.
Still better than airbnb where an $80 night can turn into a $500 fiasco, but not really all that different.
Agreed, it goes both ways. Short the rent $2.50 and watch how quickly it's a big deal.
So you guys are finally figuring out why banks love giving out credit cards for government funded programs like EBT? Congratulations and welcome to 1990! It's getting too late to stop it now. Just wait until we get CBDC and everything has built in transaction fees on every end of things.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Wait until you see the E36 M3storm that's about to come down on Bank of America for unemployment fraud stemming from 2020-2021. It's not fees related, but the amount of defrauding of funds that they were doing to states and the federal government is astronomical.
In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
I got a notification this morning about a fine for BAC, something about fake accounts and double-charged overdraft fees. Didnt look into it at all because I dont think the fine is big enough to move the share price, so cant comment on the veracity, just saying they may also be in trouble for something fee related also
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