oldtin
oldtin SuperDork
11/1/12 11:07 a.m.

Race Driver Vs. Autonomous Car

Human edges out robot car on race track

Thunderhill proved to be a good test of the car's control systems

A race between a robot car and a human has ended with a win for the humans - but only just.

The race was run on Thunderhill Raceway in California between an Audi TTS that can drive itself and a racing car driver familiar with the circuit.

The human driver completed a lap around the circuit a few seconds faster than the robotic car.

The race was part of research to develop control systems that will help to make domestic cars more autonomous.

Human race The robot car in the race has been developed by researchers at the Centre for Automotive Research at Stanford University (Cars).

Called Shelley, the autonomous vehicle is fitted with sensors that work out its position on the road, feed back information about the grip of its tyres and help it plot the best route around the circuit.

Prof Chris Gerdes, head of the Cars Lab at Stanford, said Thunderhill was chosen because its 15 turns present the car's control systems with a wide variety of challenges. Some corners can be taken at high speed, some are chicanes, others are sharp and come at the end of long straights down which the car hit a top speed of 115mph (185kph).

Once familiar with the three-mile circuit the car was raced against one of Thunderhill's staff who was very familiar with the track and logged a slightly faster time.

"What human drivers do consistently well is feel out the limits of the car and push it just a little bit further and that is where they have an advantage," said Prof Gerdes.

He added that follow-up work had been done to record what the best human drivers did with the car's brakes, steering and throttle as they drove so this could be incorporated into the control systems the Stanford team is developing.

"It's not so much the technology as the capability of the human that is our inspiration now.”

For instance, he said, in situations where the car is being driven at the limit of the grip of its tyres, the car cannot be turned via the steering wheel. Instead, said Prof Gerdes, race drivers use the brake and the throttle to force a car round a corner.

"We're learning what they are doing and it's those counter-intuitive behaviours that we are planning to put in the algorithm," he said.

"Our ultimate objective is not really to robotify [car racing] but to take these sorts of technologies, learning from the very best human drivers and turn those into safety systems that can work on cars," he told the Big Science Summit, a conference organised by The Atlantic magazine.

Currently, he said, driver assistance systems in vehicles actively prevent them performing manoeuvres that the best drivers use to avoid or get out of trouble.

Driving fast on a race track was one way to expose those high level abilities, he said. The maths of making a car steer safely at high speed around a tight bend was very similar to that needed to keep a car on the road if it hits a patch of ice. Both, he said, involved a calculation based on how much friction there was between the road and the tyres.

"As we set up these systems in the future, it's important not to build autonomous vehicles that are merely a collection of systems designed for human support but to think a little bit more holistically about making them as good as the very best human drivers," said Prof Gerdes. "It's not so much the technology as the capability of the human that is our inspiration now."

AtticusTurbo27
AtticusTurbo27 New Reader
11/1/12 11:16 a.m.

Where's the video or can I not see it on mobile?

Beer Baron
Beer Baron PowerDork
11/1/12 11:23 a.m.
oldtin wrote: A race between a robot car and a human has ended with a win for the humans - but only just. ... The human driver completed a lap around the circuit a few seconds faster than the robotic car.

Yeah... clearly written by people who don't realize that a few seconds a lap is a big difference.

ransom
ransom GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/1/12 11:27 a.m.

In reply to Beer Baron:

That was my first thought as well.

Not that it isn't impressive! But that sort of lets the story down.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron PowerDork
11/1/12 11:33 a.m.
ransom wrote: Not that it isn't impressive! But that sort of lets the story down.

No. That means we're still a long way out from all F1 racers being replaced with robots.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury UltimaDork
11/1/12 11:34 a.m.

regardless, a robot putting down a lap time 2.5 secs slower than a Track staffer who could run the thing in a blindfold with gangnam blaring in the speakers, is pretty damn respectable. Id bet that a human, who has not run the track couldnt come within 5 secs of a track vet in their first 20 laps.

I find the tech fascinating, Im just not excited about what implementing it into everyday life might do to commuting.

codrus
codrus GRM+ Memberand Reader
11/1/12 11:37 a.m.
Beer Baron wrote: Yeah... clearly written by people who don't realize that a few seconds a lap is a big difference.

A few seconds is a big difference, but it's probably smaller than the difference between the front of the grid and the back of the grid in your average Spec Miata race. Hell, it's smaller than the front-to-back grid difference in your average F1 race!

oldtin
oldtin SuperDork
11/1/12 11:39 a.m.

A few seconds is an eternity on track. So robots aren't setting FTDs.

I think what's interesting is the realization on the researcher/developer end that high level driving may require the opposite behavior/action of current driver aids.

the TED talk about it.

Knurled
Knurled GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
11/1/12 1:13 p.m.
Beer Baron wrote: No. That means we're still a long way out from all F1 racers being replaced with robots.

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
11/1/12 1:30 p.m.

So if I'm reding this correctly, when fully autonomous cars finally are mandated, every one of them should be capable of driving near 10/10ths most of the time?

That could be the world's most interesting/terrifying roller coaster yet....

Hal
Hal Dork
11/1/12 6:56 p.m.
oldtin wrote: I think what's interesting is the realization on the researcher/developer end that high level driving may require the opposite behavior/action of current driver aids.

Quite possibly the most important thing they got out of this test.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua PowerDork
11/1/12 7:07 p.m.
petegossett wrote: So if I'm reding this correctly, when fully autonomous cars finally are mandated, every one of them should be capable of driving near 10/10ths most of the time? That could be the world's most interesting/terrifying roller coaster yet....

Not here. Here they will drive politely and efficiently because its the right thing to do. But in Mexico.............

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/2/12 7:54 a.m.
Beer Baron wrote: Yeah... clearly written by people who don't realize that a few seconds a lap is a big difference.

Yeah what a let down, I was expecting maybe a half-second difference. But last time I saw this robot in action just earlier this year, it was jerking the wheel like a spaz.

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
11/2/12 8:12 a.m.
GameboyRMH wrote:
Beer Baron wrote: Yeah... clearly written by people who don't realize that a few seconds a lap is a big difference.
Yeah what a let down, I was expecting maybe a half-second difference. But last time I saw this robot in action just earlier this year, it was jerking the wheel like a spaz.

I've run on 25 Hour teams at Thunderhill where the spread among team members was more like 8-9 seconds, and the teams were perfectly competitive. A couple of seconds may be a big deal in Spec Miata qualifying at the Runoffs, but in the real world it's wicked impressive.

I would LOVE to see a robo-car in the 25 Hour at some point. Even if it flipped out and went full H-K during the race (a mode which we know all robots innately posses) it wouldn't be as bad as some of the driving I've seen there.

jg

Beer Baron
Beer Baron PowerDork
11/2/12 11:04 a.m.
JG Pasterjak wrote: I would LOVE to see a robo-car in the 25 Hour at some point. Even if it flipped out and went full H-K during the race (a mode which we know all robots innately posses) it wouldn't be as bad as some of the driving I've seen there.

So you're saying it should be a LeMons competitor then?

ultraclyde
ultraclyde Dork
11/2/12 11:43 a.m.

I HATE when people use the plural "maths".

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
11/2/12 12:04 p.m.
ultraclyde wrote: I HATE when people use the plural "maths".

Stay away from the UK then

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/2/12 12:44 p.m.

I'd call that quite impressive. 2.5 seconds is a much smaller difference than I expected. You know it'll be faster next time, and the engineers are learning quite a bit about applied vehicle dynamics. Will the human be faster? Maybe, but not dramatically so.

sporqster
sporqster Reader
11/2/12 1:07 p.m.

Lunch time at the next Chumpcar/LeMons race.... Load Drivatar... enjoy.

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