Manufacturer survey about dealer

It's making me gag.

Can someone who works at a dealership help me get over my resistance to saying that every aspect of my experience was "Outstanding"?

There were a few items I wasn't thrilled about, and I'm not going to miss the guys I talked to in particular.

BUT... If the upshot of all this is as I understand it based on comments from misc dealership employees on the forum, they basically get unfairly hosed by the manufacturer if I so much as give them a 9/10 on one line item.

I don't feel like I owe them anything, but I also don't want to support such a stupid system. I assume my non-submission of the survey would be the same as subpar marks...

Non-submission does not count one way or another.

It is not unusual to get zapped over something you have no control over. Seen that too many times.

Anything less than perfect does reflect poorly on the person who handled the transaction.

And yes it is a chickenE36 M3 system, the mfg basically dumps the blame for their poor engineering and cost cutting etc on the service advisor.

What happens if you simply refuse to participate in their survey?

Nothing.

I love the survey's that are purposely skewed. Talk about having a loaded gun to your head.

Oh and I never give 10 out of 10's. To me it implies everything was perfect. Nothing is ever perfect.

I in fact used a post-recall survey recently to unload a diatribe against BMW's crappy engineering on the little stuff. The question specifically asked if there was anything I wanted to say to the BMW Engineering staff, so I went on a tear about how crappy it was that every E46 ever made suffers the same host of well-known but stupid problems, and yet BMW refuses to give amnesty on any of them, and probably carried the same issues over to the newer cars.

I always give 5/10 for average service.

To beat that, you have to do something I didn't expect. To get a 10/10 at a car dealership, it would probably involve catching a life threatening condition in the car and fixing it for free.

The survey system is flawed. You have people like this ^ who enjoy making things difficult.

9/10 is failure no questions asked. If somebody did something really awful by all means 0/10 is the way to go. I ask all my customers to give the 10/10 I think the wording needs to be changed, instead of completely satisfied just ask a pointed question "Did the dealer do everything reasonable to insure your visit was satisfying" I will never understand why people think their oil change or even their new car should come with a free 5 course meal and blowjob, my favorite is the people you bend over backwards for, 5/10

If you cant/dont want to give 10/10 just dont send it back. Or answer the questions they ask the survey is about the dealer not the product if you have an issue with the car call customer service.

My business has the same skewed surveys. 9 and 10 are the only scores that count; anything less than that is a 'deduction'. How many people do you know that give out 10's? So we're all screwed, which is wonderful because it's directly tied to our performance review.

So let's say I get 4 surveys back in a month. Two are perfect 10's. One has some 7's and 8's. The other one flames me because of something I didn't even have control over (the repairs took too long because the shop lost a guy to illness). It literally will take me 3 more months of perfect 10's to get back into the good graces of the slanted scoring system.

Brett_Murphy wrote: I always give 5/10 for average service. To beat that, you have to do something I didn't expect. To get a 10/10 at a car dealership, it would probably involve catching a life threatening condition in the car and fixing it for free.

Here is the #1 problem with surveys.

Many times a provider of competent service which incoveniences the customer in a minor way (which they really should expect) gets a shot in the balls from someone who says 'nothing is ever perfect, I will never give 10's'. That's even after we explain how important it is to us.

So to all of those: thanks for the kick in the nards. Really appreciate how your arrogance cut me off from my CSI bonus which I really need to pay my bills.

Curmudgeon wrote:

Brett_Murphy wrote: I always give 5/10 for average service. To beat that, you have to do something I didn't expect. To get a 10/10 at a car dealership, it would probably involve catching a life threatening condition in the car and fixing it for free.

Here is the #1 problem with surveys. Many times a provider of competent service which incoveniences the customer in a minor way (which they really should expect) gets a shot in the balls from someone who says 'nothing is ever perfect, I will never give 10's'. That's even after we explain how important it is to us. So to all of those: thanks for the kick in the nards. Really appreciate how your arrogance cut me off from my CSI bonus which I really need to pay my bills.

And here is that same situation from the customer's side:

I recently had a recall done on my BMW. It was not hard to get an appointment. They shuttled me to work and back, which I appreciated. The work was done when they said it would be. It seems to have been done OK.

Now, the post-service survey says a 10 is for - direct quote - "Exceptional Service". It was a recall. Was anything they did "Exceptional"? No! They did a good, competent job. But nothing about it, other than maybe the shuttle, could remotely qualify as "Exceptional". I'm not being an arrogant prick about that - it's plain truth. I wasn't an exceptional customer - I didn't demand the world, I dropped the car early in the morning and picked it up late in the day for an easy repair, hell, I didn't even drink the coffee. If the system is flawed be pissed off at your company's system, not the normal customer who receives normal service and doesn't see any reason to pretend it's "Exceptional".

Now, if they had actually washed the car instead of just splattering it with a hose, if they had noticed that the entire interior was ripped out of the back and given me a call to ask, "hey, is there a problem in the back seat area we can help with?", or if they had agreed to discount the infamous BMW-wide bad window regulator repair, or anything like that, I would have gladly given out 10s. But they didn't.

Curmudgeon wrote: So to all of those: thanks for the kick in the nards. Really appreciate how your arrogance cut me off from my CSI bonus which I really need to pay my bills.

I really don't want to deflect this off topic too far, but if you need to make "bills" with "bonus" money, you are living outside your means. You need to negotiate for better job pay or a new and hopefully better paying job. It is just like Joe Blow in the factory needing to work 10hrs of OT every week to make ends meet.

I generally won't participate in surveys, but I do think the whole thing is a joke. 10 of 10 implies perfection and I have never purchased a new car or had service work done at a dealership where I felt they did a "perfect" job. About the only category I would give a 10/10 is: Dealership personnel wasted hours of my time while they dragged their feet and tried to find ways to weasel more money into the deal and also tried to sell me "paint sealant" and "rustproofing." The typical dealership experience is a journey into a cesspool of sleaze.

Ranger50 wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: So to all of those: thanks for the kick in the nards. Really appreciate how your arrogance cut me off from my CSI bonus which I really need to pay my bills.

I really don't want to deflect this off topic too far, but if you need to make "bills" with "bonus" money, you are living outside your means. You need to negotiate for better job pay or a new and hopefully better paying job. It is just like Joe Blow in the factory needing to work 10hrs of OT every week to make ends meet.

HorseE36 M3. I have NEVER lived beyond my means. That is why, even after my divorce and becoming a single dad (full custody) I don't owe anybody anything. That's why I drive a paid for 14 year old Trooper. So save the lectures, OK?

That CSI bonus was considered part of my pay, as in I took a hit if the CSI was below a target figure. Even better, all 4 service advisors shared the pain/pleasure: the CSI scores were added together and divided by 4 to come up with an averaged score. If that score dropped below the target figure we ALL got hit. That meant we helped each other.

So I busted my ass to get good scores so that I had enough money to pay my bills etc. just like everyone out there with half a brain.

But then you get all the 'Princess and the Pea' types who are pissed at something that the service advisor had NOTHING to do with and they hit THEM for CSI because BMW or Chrysler or whoever built a E36 M3ty window regulator which the manufacturer refuses to stand behind, meaning if it's replaced out of warranty the DEALERSHIP, NOT THE MANUFACTURER, takes the hit. As in: 'I'm pissed and just like the Romans of old I am going to kill the messenger who brings back bad news from the battlefield'.

berkeley this. No more from me on this subject. Do your survey however the berkeley you want to.

Ford Dealership Employee speaking...

Here's how the surveys work. If you don't answer Completely Satisfied or Excellent on every question in that survey, I get a failing grade. If you were to put Extremely Satisfied and Extremely good, I still fail. It's a completely retarded and unfair way to go about scoring employees.

Pay close attention, if it asks questions about the vehicle in particular, then you can score it how you think. It doesn't count against the employee at all, you're grading the vehicle.

Ranger50 wrote: Oh and I never give 10 out of 10's. To me it implies everything was perfect. Nothing is ever perfect.

This is the attitude I have to overcome daily. This is the type of person who I HATE to see got a survey. No one's perfect, but you don't have to be like that.

The thing is, we're not "allowed" to explain the survey to customers, but we all do it anyway. Here's my schpeal...

Mr. Sir, you may receive a survey from Ford, it'll look like this (shows laminated copy of survey). Completely Satisfied and Excellent scores are the only ones that count. Any other scores will fail me and make it look like we shoved you in the corner and hit you with rocks.

Generally they laugh and understand the flawed and skewed system. If they make remarks such as, "I never give perfect scores, no one is perfect and no one deserves those scores!" Then I do something to make sure they don't receive a survey...

In reply to Conquest351:

That is why I DO NOT fill out surveys.

But right now, I am the guy trying to get my MIL's oil eating Impala "fixed". If I was to get a survey right now, it would be a whole bunch of 1 or 2's on EVERY question. My service advisor hasn't been the best, but he is from from the worst I have encountered. My problem is that I have been dicked with for OVER a YEAR and 10k+ miles to be told, "Well.... you are too close to the limit for the car to be fixed under warranty. So, we are suggesting you keep on with getting the oil changed again and come back in 2k miles." I am only getting more and more pissed sitting here thinking about it. Do you really think "they" are going to get a 10 after it is all said and done? Especially if it does come out to be a 10 min fix involving a PCV valve?

What's funny is that people with that attitude literally FEED the system that makes their dealership experience so E36 M3ty to begin with. Even I can see that.

Essentially, you need to think of the survey as actually being a true or false questionaire.

True - the service requested did what it was supposed to do in a mediocre way False - the service requested couldn't even be mediocre

There is one place I draw the line at, and it is screwing with somebodies pay. Yes, even if it rewards "some" bad apples, I can live with that if it helps someone like Curmudgeon once in a while. Either way, you paid for the service (or it was warrantied/recall), either way, you are going to pay ANOTHER dealership for the service again whether or not you give this one a great rating, so you might as well do it.

Lesser of two evils in my view. Hard to take a principled stand when there is nothing to be gained but wrecking the livelihood of others...and I'm the kind of guy who takes stands on principles ALL of the time.

BoneYard_Racing wrote: The survey system is flawed. You have people like this ^ who enjoy making things difficult. 9/10 is failure no questions asked. If somebody did something really awful by all means 0/10 is the way to go. I ask all my customers to give the 10/10 I think the wording needs to be changed, instead of completely satisfied just ask a pointed question "Did the dealer do everything reasonable to insure your visit was satisfying" I will never understand why people think their oil change or even their new car should come with a free 5 course meal and blowjob, my favorite is the people you bend over backwards for, 5/10 If you cant/dont want to give 10/10 just dont send it back. Or answer the questions they ask the survey is about the dealer not the product if you have an issue with the car call customer service.

That has nothing to do with a person making something difficult. It has to do with ridiculous goals and a stupid survey system.

You should not have to ASK your customers to give you a 10/10.

10/10 is something extremely special, it IS perfect.

There's a difference between a good job, and a 100% perfect job. I didn't get a 100% grade on every single one of my graded assignments or tests in high school. I didn't expect or ASK anyone to give me a 100% anyways.

I've never had a interaction with ANY dealership for ANY reason that went behind "Extremely Mediocre." Sorry. I'm not giving a 10/10 for that.

I'll write a letter to someone who matters explaining why the survey sucks if i'm ever put in that situation again, but unless i'm wowed, i'm no putting a 10/10 on that survey.

I can see how it sucks, but getting mad at your customers because they "Take your bonus away" is bogus. It's not the customers, it's the survey. Place your anger in the right place. It's obviously the survey if you have to lean on the customers to "game" a E36 M3ty system.

However, due to this thread and how pissed off it makes some of you, i'll just not fill the survey out anymore.

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

True, but you didn't fail in high school with 90% grades.

RealMiniDriver wrote: In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac: True, but you didn't fail in high school with 90% grades.

Correct! Because it's a grading system that makes sense.

If i had failed with 90% grades, i wouldn't have been mad at the teachers... i would have been mad and raised hell at the berkeleying idiot that made a 90% a failing grade.

Yes, 10/10 implies perfection if you're writing an exam, but this is not an exam - it's a survey with a (presumably) well described scoring system that says that 10/10 is for outstanding or exceptional service. Something can be outstanding or exceptional while not being perfect.

On the same token, if I bring my car in for a repair, they do the repair in the time they quoted, everything is done properly, I'm given a free loaner car or the shuttle drops me off and picks me up at the agreed upon time, how can it be any more perfect? Getting your car fixed is going to cause a certain amount of inconvenience, and you should keep that in mind when filling out these surveys. I think people just have completely unrealistic expectations about what the dealership is required to do and what the survey is asking. Looking at it from the analogy of an exam, since so many want to look at it that way, if they did the repair on time, it was done properly, and they picked me up/dropped me off on time, why not give a perfect score?

Bob

Some of you guys are real shiny happy people. You know that they need perfect scores to get their bonus or whatever. Why not just give it to them? The only time I don't give a 10 is if they've done a crappy job. You people probably tried to berkeley over classmates when grading each other's tests in school. You also probably hose any employees you have when it comes to promotions/raises during eval time.

"I don't believe in giving excellent scores, so you got a 5/10 for competence, which is average. I'm not really putting you at a disadvantage against other employees with different managers, even if they give 9 and 10/10 for most categories."

What should we put on the survey for normal, expected, "it got done" service?

I mean... i don't even know, apparently. I'm a smart guy, too. (at least i like to think so)

From what i'm gathering in this thread, normal service is a 10/10, and it's the CUSTOMER that has unrealistic expectations?