Meanwhile, at the Capital...

Curmudgeon wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: yeS! Let's grow the gov't even MORE! That will fix it. I've never seen a gov't agency completely overstep it's bounds, come in at 4 times the cost and fix absolutely nothing before. Look, you want complete gov't oversight, move to Europe. LEave us the berkeley alone.

So you are ok with a healthcare company denying you some basic service so that they shareholders profit more? We are not talkign about an OEM radiator, but giving you the most up to date heart opreartion.

I'm the one who bitched about BCBS of SC (one of those so-called non profits) holding a HUGE surplus while denying claims for my daughter's asthma meds claiming her eligibility had ended. Which was complete bullE36 M3 because they had been accepting my money for a year and a half. When it comes down to a tug of war between my kid's health and the shareholders, the shareholders can go berkeley themselves. EDIT: These are the same shiny happy people who finally paid for her meds after I raised hell and wrote a blistering letter to the local newspaper. I then change employers, get another policy with the same company and coverage of her asthma is denied for six months as a 'preexisting condition'. Yeah, I've heard all the arguments for that. They are bullE36 M3 designed to maximize profit at the expense of the policy holder and all I have to say is: if the ACA was good for one thing it was getting rid of that goddamn preexisting condition thing.

I am shocked, SHOCKED that BCBS treated you like that. Oh, wait, no I'm not because that is how they treated ME. I paid my premiums for six years and when I finally needed to get patched back up they fought me on every single charge. I had to resubmit doctors bills multiple times, or have them re-coded so they wouldn't be rejected. I went to their approved doctors every single time but I guess it didn't matter.

I swear I was going to reach through the phone and punch the next person who said the words "usual and customary" to me. For those who don't know that is the amount that an insurance companies feels it should pay for a procedure, which may be WAY different from what you are charged. The difference between the two is now your problem. So now you have to call the doctor and get them to re-code the bill to something that the insurance company will pay or lower the price. Sometimes the doctor just re-submits the same bill which is now magically accepted, where the original bill was not. It was a good thing I was on medical leave for two months relearning to walk or else I'd never been able to deal with the stupidity of the whole billing situation.

Then when it was all over is when the threatening phone calls came in asking when I was going to pay them back. This was not some debt collection agency, the phone was answered by BCBS staff. The "bills" were mailed from BCBS but nowhere on them was there a due date, just a long statement of services and a huge number at the bottom in bold. Screw BCBS.

slefain wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: yeS! Let's grow the gov't even MORE! That will fix it. I've never seen a gov't agency completely overstep it's bounds, come in at 4 times the cost and fix absolutely nothing before. Look, you want complete gov't oversight, move to Europe. LEave us the berkeley alone.

So you are ok with a healthcare company denying you some basic service so that they shareholders profit more? We are not talkign about an OEM radiator, but giving you the most up to date heart opreartion.

I'm the one who bitched about BCBS of SC (one of those so-called non profits) holding a HUGE surplus while denying claims for my daughter's asthma meds claiming her eligibility had ended. Which was complete bullE36 M3 because they had been accepting my money for a year and a half. When it comes down to a tug of war between my kid's health and the shareholders, the shareholders can go berkeley themselves. EDIT: These are the same shiny happy people who finally paid for her meds after I raised hell and wrote a blistering letter to the local newspaper. I then change employers, get another policy with the same company and coverage of her asthma is denied for six months as a 'preexisting condition'. Yeah, I've heard all the arguments for that. They are bullE36 M3 designed to maximize profit at the expense of the policy holder and all I have to say is: if the ACA was good for one thing it was getting rid of that goddamn preexisting condition thing.

I am shocked, SHOCKED that BCBS treated you like that. Oh, wait, no I'm not because that is how they treated ME. I paid my premiums for six years and when I finally needed to get patched back up they fought me on every single charge. I had to resubmit doctors bills multiple times, or have them re-coded so they wouldn't be rejected. I went to their approved doctors every single time but I guess it didn't matter. I swear I was going to reach through the phone and punch the next person who said the words "usual and customary" to me. For those who don't know that is the amount that an insurance companies feels it should pay for a procedure, which may be WAY different from what you are charged. The difference between the two is now your problem. So now you have to call the doctor and get them to re-code the bill to something that the insurance company will pay or lower the price. Sometimes the doctor just re-submits the same bill which is now magically accepted, where the original bill was not. It was a good thing I was on medical leave for two months relearning to walk or else I'd never been able to deal with the stupidity of the whole billing situation. Then when it was all over is when the threatening phone calls came in asking when I was going to pay them back. This was not some debt collection agency, the phone was answered by BCBS staff. The "bills" were mailed from BCBS but nowhere on them was there a due date, just a long statement of services and a huge number at the bottom in bold. Screw BCBS.

Stop right there.

If you were having problems related to "usual and customary," which is also known as "Contracted Rates," then you weren't going to an "In Network" or to use your term, "Approved" provider.

It's one or the other. The end. Which was it?

In Network providers CANNOT charge you the difference between billed charge and contracted rates. If that was happening, you had an issue with your provider, not the insurance company.

In network providers AGREE to the "usual and customary/contracted" rates when they sign their contract with the insurance company. This is not special to BCBS, this is how health insurance works, period.

And again... BCBS will not bill you for anything but premiums. They don't administer health care, they cannot and will not bill you for services that someone else rendered. It's not their problem, nor do they even truly care if you pay your providers or not. The only possible exception here would be if Subrogation was involved, which could be the case if your car insurance paid out any medical costs. BCBS is typically a "Pay and Pursue" company. They get medical claims for accidents, they pay them. Subrogation department will handle what happens if BCBS AND your car insurance both pay the same bill. I'm assuming Subrogation wasn't involved because you didn't mention if your car insurance paid any bills, and that'd be a pretty important key to the story that you probably wouldn't have left out.

I'm truly sorry that you had to go through your accident and apparently everything afterwards was a total pain in the ass, but inaccuracies serve no purpose but to perpetuate the shell game.

As for Curmudgeon, i remember the other thread quite clearly. Yes, he had some E36 M3ty things happen concerning multiple waiting periods. Mostly because he didn't purchase COBRA between policies. This happened multiple times. The information is given to you when an employer-funded health insurance plan ends, and explains that one of the biggest benefits of COBRA is ensuring that there's no break in coverage, therefor preventing another waiting period from happening.

NOTE: Like i've said many many times before, i don't agree with waiting periods or pre-existing in general.

However, the hoops were put in place. They're E36 M3ty hoops. Expensive hoops. The hoops aren't secret. Not jumping through them can screw you. I can understand being mad about it the first time if you didn't read your COBRA packet. I can't understand being mad about it the 2nd or 3rd time.

Either way, it's going away, so that's progress! Now nobody will have to deal with it anymore, and the rest of us won't have to hear about it.

Swank Force One wrote:

slefain wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: yeS! Let's grow the gov't even MORE! That will fix it. I've never seen a gov't agency completely overstep it's bounds, come in at 4 times the cost and fix absolutely nothing before. Look, you want complete gov't oversight, move to Europe. LEave us the berkeley alone.

So you are ok with a healthcare company denying you some basic service so that they shareholders profit more? We are not talkign about an OEM radiator, but giving you the most up to date heart opreartion.

I'm the one who bitched about BCBS of SC (one of those so-called non profits) holding a HUGE surplus while denying claims for my daughter's asthma meds claiming her eligibility had ended. Which was complete bullE36 M3 because they had been accepting my money for a year and a half. When it comes down to a tug of war between my kid's health and the shareholders, the shareholders can go berkeley themselves. EDIT: These are the same shiny happy people who finally paid for her meds after I raised hell and wrote a blistering letter to the local newspaper. I then change employers, get another policy with the same company and coverage of her asthma is denied for six months as a 'preexisting condition'. Yeah, I've heard all the arguments for that. They are bullE36 M3 designed to maximize profit at the expense of the policy holder and all I have to say is: if the ACA was good for one thing it was getting rid of that goddamn preexisting condition thing.

I am shocked, SHOCKED that BCBS treated you like that. Oh, wait, no I'm not because that is how they treated ME. I paid my premiums for six years and when I finally needed to get patched back up they fought me on every single charge. I had to resubmit doctors bills multiple times, or have them re-coded so they wouldn't be rejected. I went to their approved doctors every single time but I guess it didn't matter. I swear I was going to reach through the phone and punch the next person who said the words "usual and customary" to me. For those who don't know that is the amount that an insurance companies feels it should pay for a procedure, which may be WAY different from what you are charged. The difference between the two is now your problem. So now you have to call the doctor and get them to re-code the bill to something that the insurance company will pay or lower the price. Sometimes the doctor just re-submits the same bill which is now magically accepted, where the original bill was not. It was a good thing I was on medical leave for two months relearning to walk or else I'd never been able to deal with the stupidity of the whole billing situation. Then when it was all over is when the threatening phone calls came in asking when I was going to pay them back. This was not some debt collection agency, the phone was answered by BCBS staff. The "bills" were mailed from BCBS but nowhere on them was there a due date, just a long statement of services and a huge number at the bottom in bold. Screw BCBS.

Stop right there. If you were having problems related to "usual and customary," which is also known as "Contracted Rates," then you weren't going to an "In Network" or to use your term, "Approved" provider. It's one or the other. The end. Which was it? In Network providers CANNOT charge you the difference between billed charge and contracted rates. If that was happening, you had an issue with your provider, not the insurance company. In network providers AGREE to the "usual and customary/contracted" rates when they sign their contract with the insurance company. This is not special to BCBS, this is how health insurance works, period. And again... BCBS will not bill you for anything but premiums. They don't administer health care, they cannot and will not bill you for services that someone else rendered. It's not their problem, nor do they even truly care if you pay your providers or not. The only possible exception here would be if Subrogation was involved, which could be the case if your car insurance paid out any medical costs. BCBS is typically a "Pay and Pursue" company. They get medical claims for accidents, they pay them. Subrogation department will handle what happens if BCBS AND your car insurance both pay the same bill. I'm assuming Subrogation wasn't involved because you didn't mention if your car insurance paid any bills, and that'd be a pretty important key to the story that you probably wouldn't have left out. I'm truly sorry that you had to go through your accident and apparently everything afterwards was a total pain in the ass, but inaccuracies serve no purpose but to perpetuate the shell game.

As far as I knew every doctor I saw past the initial "patch him up" doctor in the emergency room was in network. That doctor was out of network and I did have to pay my 20% or so for his services. I switched to a BCBS listed leg doctor as soon as I could. I used their listed surgical centers, their specialists from their own doctor lists. But still the bills came in from all the various people involved with statements listing what BCBS paid, and what the specialist billed, and then the difference due.

BCBS was insanely insistent that my car insurance company pay for the bills, which I had to tell them over and over that I did not carry medical coverage on my car insurance. I even got on a three way call with my car insurance company and BCBS so they would finally believe me and stop denying my bills. Then they pestered me saying that the guy that hit me needed to pay for the bills, which I then answered "fine, you find him because the police can't". Subrogation was a word I heard a lot and I understand why, but in my case it was up to BCBS to pay for it all and they would not let that go.

slefain wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

slefain wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: yeS! Let's grow the gov't even MORE! That will fix it. I've never seen a gov't agency completely overstep it's bounds, come in at 4 times the cost and fix absolutely nothing before. Look, you want complete gov't oversight, move to Europe. LEave us the berkeley alone.

So you are ok with a healthcare company denying you some basic service so that they shareholders profit more? We are not talkign about an OEM radiator, but giving you the most up to date heart opreartion.

I'm the one who bitched about BCBS of SC (one of those so-called non profits) holding a HUGE surplus while denying claims for my daughter's asthma meds claiming her eligibility had ended. Which was complete bullE36 M3 because they had been accepting my money for a year and a half. When it comes down to a tug of war between my kid's health and the shareholders, the shareholders can go berkeley themselves. EDIT: These are the same shiny happy people who finally paid for her meds after I raised hell and wrote a blistering letter to the local newspaper. I then change employers, get another policy with the same company and coverage of her asthma is denied for six months as a 'preexisting condition'. Yeah, I've heard all the arguments for that. They are bullE36 M3 designed to maximize profit at the expense of the policy holder and all I have to say is: if the ACA was good for one thing it was getting rid of that goddamn preexisting condition thing.

I am shocked, SHOCKED that BCBS treated you like that. Oh, wait, no I'm not because that is how they treated ME. I paid my premiums for six years and when I finally needed to get patched back up they fought me on every single charge. I had to resubmit doctors bills multiple times, or have them re-coded so they wouldn't be rejected. I went to their approved doctors every single time but I guess it didn't matter. I swear I was going to reach through the phone and punch the next person who said the words "usual and customary" to me. For those who don't know that is the amount that an insurance companies feels it should pay for a procedure, which may be WAY different from what you are charged. The difference between the two is now your problem. So now you have to call the doctor and get them to re-code the bill to something that the insurance company will pay or lower the price. Sometimes the doctor just re-submits the same bill which is now magically accepted, where the original bill was not. It was a good thing I was on medical leave for two months relearning to walk or else I'd never been able to deal with the stupidity of the whole billing situation. Then when it was all over is when the threatening phone calls came in asking when I was going to pay them back. This was not some debt collection agency, the phone was answered by BCBS staff. The "bills" were mailed from BCBS but nowhere on them was there a due date, just a long statement of services and a huge number at the bottom in bold. Screw BCBS.

Stop right there. If you were having problems related to "usual and customary," which is also known as "Contracted Rates," then you weren't going to an "In Network" or to use your term, "Approved" provider. It's one or the other. The end. Which was it? In Network providers CANNOT charge you the difference between billed charge and contracted rates. If that was happening, you had an issue with your provider, not the insurance company. In network providers AGREE to the "usual and customary/contracted" rates when they sign their contract with the insurance company. This is not special to BCBS, this is how health insurance works, period. And again... BCBS will not bill you for anything but premiums. They don't administer health care, they cannot and will not bill you for services that someone else rendered. It's not their problem, nor do they even truly care if you pay your providers or not. The only possible exception here would be if Subrogation was involved, which could be the case if your car insurance paid out any medical costs. BCBS is typically a "Pay and Pursue" company. They get medical claims for accidents, they pay them. Subrogation department will handle what happens if BCBS AND your car insurance both pay the same bill. I'm assuming Subrogation wasn't involved because you didn't mention if your car insurance paid any bills, and that'd be a pretty important key to the story that you probably wouldn't have left out. I'm truly sorry that you had to go through your accident and apparently everything afterwards was a total pain in the ass, but inaccuracies serve no purpose but to perpetuate the shell game.

As far as I knew every doctor I saw past the initial "patch him up" doctor in the emergency room was in network. That doctor was out of network and I did have to pay my 20% or so for his services. I switched to a BCBS listed leg doctor as soon as I could. I used their listed surgical centers, their specialists from their own doctor lists. But still the bills came in from all the various people involved with statements listing what BCBS paid, and what the specialist billed, and then the difference due. BCBS was insanely insistent that my car insurance company pay for the bills, which I had to tell them over and over that I did not carry medical coverage on my car insurance. I even got on a three way call with my car insurance company and BCBS so they would finally believe me and stop denying my bills. Then they pestered me saying that the guy that hit me needed to pay for the bills, which I then answered "fine, you find him because the police can't". Subrogation was a word I heard a lot and I understand why, but in my case it was up to BCBS to pay for it all and they would not let that go.

Well... you WOULD be billed the difference of the Contracted Rate and what BCBS paid. Maybe that's the disconnect. Actual Billed Charge (Billed to insurance) has no bearing on you personally when talking In Network Providers.

Subrogation is a strange world, but the only way you would personally receive a bill for services from BCBS would be if you saw an Out of Network Provider and BCBS cut you a check as claim payment. (Does happen.) And THEN another entity also paid that same bill. Without record of a double payment, BCBS can not and will not bill you for services.

Got any of the "bills" from BCBS still hanging around?

Swank Force One wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

rotard wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: If I am born with a birth defect I should expect someone else to pick up the cost of that issue? Why? Serious question, why is it up to someone else to have that burden? It sucks, but sometimes life sucks. I think you should be able to to get insurance that will cover everything except the pre existing condition, but expecting someone else to cover the cost of the pre existing condition seems unreasonable. Where will that money come from? I understand some people are born with issues that are not any fault of theirs, but those issues are not the fault of the insurance companies either, why should they pay for them?

Your heart-warming attitude inspires me.

Sometimes life sucks. Some people accept that, and move on. Some people feel the need to blame something else. If you feel the need to make everything perfect, do it with your money, not mine. People without insurance still get the treatment they need. I have never walked into a hospital that had a line of dying people outside because they were "too poor" to get help.

Bingo. Insurance does not determine whether or not people are allowed to get treatment.

berkeley yeah. Let's bankrupt a family because a kid has cancer.

Swank Force One wrote: blah blah blah long story from Slefain and Swank getting too long to quote.

Well... you WOULD be billed the difference of the Contracted Rate and what BCBS paid. Maybe that's the disconnect. Actual Billed Charge (Billed to insurance) has no bearing on you personally when talking In Network Providers. Subrogation is a strange world, but the only way you would personally receive a bill for services from BCBS would be if you saw an Out of Network Provider and BCBS cut you a check as claim payment. (Does happen.) And THEN another entity also paid that same bill. Without record of a double payment, BCBS can not and will not bill you for services. Got any of the "bills" from BCBS still hanging around?

I never got a dime from BCBS. I did get paid from my car insurance company, which was for my car and some chump change for pain & suffering (I carried the barest minimum of liability and uninsured motorist coverage). But at no point did my car insurance company pay a single medical bill. In the end I still paid probably a grand in co-pays, prescriptions and other stuff for rehab. Plus I was out of work so that didn't help.

I have every single scrap of paper (including mailing envelopes) chronicling the entire nightmare filed away. The paperwork stack is about 3" thick. I might be able to finally look at it since it has been about 8 years now. I'll see if I can dig up one of these "bills" that looked all big and scary.

rotard wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

rotard wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: If I am born with a birth defect I should expect someone else to pick up the cost of that issue? Why? Serious question, why is it up to someone else to have that burden? It sucks, but sometimes life sucks. I think you should be able to to get insurance that will cover everything except the pre existing condition, but expecting someone else to cover the cost of the pre existing condition seems unreasonable. Where will that money come from? I understand some people are born with issues that are not any fault of theirs, but those issues are not the fault of the insurance companies either, why should they pay for them?

Your heart-warming attitude inspires me.

Sometimes life sucks. Some people accept that, and move on. Some people feel the need to blame something else. If you feel the need to make everything perfect, do it with your money, not mine. People without insurance still get the treatment they need. I have never walked into a hospital that had a line of dying people outside because they were "too poor" to get help.

Bingo. Insurance does not determine whether or not people are allowed to get treatment.

berkeley yeah. Let's bankrupt a family because a kid has cancer.

As much as I dont want to get on the side of the ins. co. , the "bankrupt cuz Im sick" stuff is equally as much to blame on the medical providers charging astronomical quantities of paper for treatment as it is on the Ins co. covering/not covering claims for whatever flavor of the week reason they see fit on that particular Tuesday.

4cylndrfury wrote:

rotard wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

rotard wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: If I am born with a birth defect I should expect someone else to pick up the cost of that issue? Why? Serious question, why is it up to someone else to have that burden? It sucks, but sometimes life sucks. I think you should be able to to get insurance that will cover everything except the pre existing condition, but expecting someone else to cover the cost of the pre existing condition seems unreasonable. Where will that money come from? I understand some people are born with issues that are not any fault of theirs, but those issues are not the fault of the insurance companies either, why should they pay for them?

Your heart-warming attitude inspires me.

Sometimes life sucks. Some people accept that, and move on. Some people feel the need to blame something else. If you feel the need to make everything perfect, do it with your money, not mine. People without insurance still get the treatment they need. I have never walked into a hospital that had a line of dying people outside because they were "too poor" to get help.

Bingo. Insurance does not determine whether or not people are allowed to get treatment.

berkeley yeah. Let's bankrupt a family because a kid has cancer.

As much as I dont want to get on the side of the ins. co. , the "bankrupt cuz Im sick" stuff is equally as much to blame on the medical providers charging astronomical quantities of paper for treatment as it is on the Ins co. covering/not covering claims for whatever flavor of the week reason they see fit on that particular Tuesday.

A big part of the reason they charge so much is due to insurance companies in the first place. Factor in the various types of insurance the hospital has to carry and the fact that insurance companies don't want to part with their money. Let's not forget about all the people the hospital has to hire to deal with all of the BS paperwork.

Medical providers are also to blame, but not nearly as much as the insurance companies.

slefain wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: blah blah blah long story from Slefain and Swank getting too long to quote.

Well... you WOULD be billed the difference of the Contracted Rate and what BCBS paid. Maybe that's the disconnect. Actual Billed Charge (Billed to insurance) has no bearing on you personally when talking In Network Providers. Subrogation is a strange world, but the only way you would personally receive a bill for services from BCBS would be if you saw an Out of Network Provider and BCBS cut you a check as claim payment. (Does happen.) And THEN another entity also paid that same bill. Without record of a double payment, BCBS can not and will not bill you for services. Got any of the "bills" from BCBS still hanging around?

I never got a dime from BCBS. I did get paid from my car insurance company, which was for my car and some chump change for pain & suffering (I carried the barest minimum of liability and uninsured motorist coverage). But at no point did my car insurance company pay a single medical bill. In the end I still paid probably a grand in co-pays, prescriptions and other stuff for rehab. Plus I was out of work so that didn't help. I have every single scrap of paper (including mailing envelopes) chronicling the entire nightmare filed away. The paperwork stack is about 3" thick. I might be able to finally look at it since it has been about 8 years now. I'll see if I can dig up one of these "bills" that looked all big and scary.

If you don't want to share, it's really no big deal. I offer to look at things for people that are having a hard time understanding what they're looking at constantly on various forums. Have been for 3-4 years. Not once has anyone taken me up on it. Not saying this towards you particularly, but i suspect that it's way more fun to just complain about it than actually receive any help. (Doesn't apply here because it was so long ago, i'm just mainly curious at this point what those bill things were)

I will say that if you were truly getting billed for the contracted provider write off amounts, your responsibility would have been far more than $1000 through the whole ordeal. Sounds like a somewhat serious accident if it involved rehab, so i'd guess that the write-off amounts were $50k minimum. Seriously. (He says, finishing a claim in which the provider is going to write off $136k due to contracts.)

rotard wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote:

rotard wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote:

rotard wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: If I am born with a birth defect I should expect someone else to pick up the cost of that issue? Why? Serious question, why is it up to someone else to have that burden? It sucks, but sometimes life sucks. I think you should be able to to get insurance that will cover everything except the pre existing condition, but expecting someone else to cover the cost of the pre existing condition seems unreasonable. Where will that money come from? I understand some people are born with issues that are not any fault of theirs, but those issues are not the fault of the insurance companies either, why should they pay for them?

Your heart-warming attitude inspires me.

Sometimes life sucks. Some people accept that, and move on. Some people feel the need to blame something else. If you feel the need to make everything perfect, do it with your money, not mine. People without insurance still get the treatment they need. I have never walked into a hospital that had a line of dying people outside because they were "too poor" to get help.

Bingo. Insurance does not determine whether or not people are allowed to get treatment.

berkeley yeah. Let's bankrupt a family because a kid has cancer.

As much as I dont want to get on the side of the ins. co. , the "bankrupt cuz Im sick" stuff is equally as much to blame on the medical providers charging astronomical quantities of paper for treatment as it is on the Ins co. covering/not covering claims for whatever flavor of the week reason they see fit on that particular Tuesday.

A big part of the reason they charge so much is due to insurance companies in the first place. Factor in the various types of insurance the hospital has to carry and the fact that insurance companies don't want to part with their money. Let's not forget about all the people the hospital has to hire to deal with all of the BS paperwork. Medical providers are also to blame, but not nearly as much as the insurance companies.

Repeat after me: There are many kinds of insurance. You can't rant about health insurance companies and then say that they're the problem because a hospital has to carry malpractice insurance. That's... absurd.

I'm not going to speak to the other fields of insurance, but i will say for CERTAIN that health insurance prices are reactionary to provider costs.

You COULD say that providers are raising their prices in reaction to insurance, but what they're REALLY doing is the same thing as selling a piece of E36 M3 car. If you want $500 for it, you ask $1000. THAT is what's going on here. The health insurance company's job is to negotiate as far down as they can with providers, while not alienating them to the point that they leave, which negatively affects the insured, as their network coverage is decreased. This is contracted. The negotiations do not happen after the fact with contracted providers. We will negotiate with out of network providers to reduce costs as well. (NCN.)

As for paperwork to file to Health Insurance: Oh, you mean the single claim form, with it attached medical records if necessary? The medical records that have to legally be kept anyways? You mean i have to make a copy of these bad boys and transmit them with the claim form? Oh man. That sounds awful.

OK, since we are not supposed to be taxed without proper representation, and the gov't is still shut down....Why am I still being taxed?

legislators consider themselves "essential"...regardless of what we think

I gotta say, is this the longest a political thread has gone un-locked? Proud of you guys!

4cylndrfury wrote: legislators consider themselves "essential"...regardless of what we think

Mighty magnanimous aren't they. I'd struggle to not call them a waste of space.

DukeOfUndersteer wrote: I gotta say, is this the longest a political thread has gone un-locked? Proud of you guys!

Its not gone without trolls from both sides attempting to get it locked(as usual).

DukeOfUndersteer wrote: I gotta say, is this the longest a political thread has gone un-locked? Proud of you guys!

I enjoyed the original concept of posting political memes better.

Bobzilla wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: legislators consider themselves "essential"...regardless of what we think

Mighty magnanimous aren't they. I'd struggle to not call them a waste of space.

You're not alone; 60% would kick the bums out. We get a chance to act next year. http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903531-nbcwsj-poll-60-percent-say-fire-every-member-of-congress?lite

A little more on the subject: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20131011/DA9BQJ1G0.html

oldsaw wrote:

Bobzilla wrote:

4cylndrfury wrote: legislators consider themselves "essential"...regardless of what we think

Mighty magnanimous aren't they. I'd struggle to not call them a waste of space.

You're not alone; 60% would kick the bums out. We get a chance to act next year. http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903531-nbcwsj-poll-60-percent-say-fire-every-member-of-congress?lite A little more on the subject: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20131011/DA9BQJ1G0.html

They won't be replaced. At a guess, 75% of voters walk in the booth and punch the Democratic or Republican button. They don't have a clue who they are voting for or what they stand for.

Toyman01 wrote: They won't be replaced. At a guess, 75% of voters walk in the booth and punch the Democratic or Republican button. They don't have a clue who they are voting for or what they stand for.

So true it's sad

I never thought we'd reach this point:

slefain wrote: I never thought we'd reach this point:

LOL!

slefain wrote: I never thought we'd reach this point:

Ouch

That only adds up to 71%... Where is the other 29%?

Trying to sign up on the aca website ?