Mileage tax?

Problem is, I guarantee this will end up as an additional, rather than replacement, tax..

Not to mention it COMPLETELY removes any efficiency advantages.

Dumb.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29298315/

I don't understand how the gas tax doesn't accomplish the exact same thing, only better?

Drive more = use more gas = pay more taxes? Pretty berkeleying simple. I hate politicians. berkeley.

So how hard is it to hack a GPS?

So, are they going to install a GPS in every licensed car? That sounds kind of expensive.

If not, seems like a real boon for the used and classic car industry.

Here's the problem: The governments want money. Your money, my money, the Chineese' money, all the money. This lets government employees try to spend other people's money. Now, one of the taxes is on gas. Various market conditions are pushing us towards more fuel efficient vehicles. That means less gas, which means less gas tax, which means that the government has less money to give to their friends in pork. Add to that the eventual move off of gasoline/Diesel as a fuel source, most likely to nuclear generated electricity, and the prospects for increasing "revenue" from gas taxes looks dim. So, if they tax us by the mile directly, they can go back to getting more money from us. One state was proposing a GPS chip embedded in the annual inspection sticker. When you figure how much of our money is involved, it's cheap.

On one hand I completely agree with Hess. On the other hand, I still kinda agree with Hess, but it kinda makes sense. Vehicles are being pushed towards alternate fuels and better efficiency. So as it stands, a guy with a Chevy diesel dually running veggie oil is putting the same wear and tear on the roads and the guy in a Chevy diesel dually running regular diesel, but the veggie oil guy isn't paying any taxes. Since the gas tax is supposed to go towards maintaining and building roads, it sort of makes sense that the more you use them the more you pay for them.

So keep raising the gas tax. Why is this difficult? Heck, they could as easily turn the gas tax into a percentage instead of a flat rate and no one would ever complain. Instead of 10 cents federal tax per gallon make it 6% or even 10% and it'll all work out in the end.

Can I go on record right now as suggesting all politicians should be replaced with engineers for at least a couple of terms to get the world back on an even keel where things actually make sense? Then the Berkleyers can go back in and do whatever it is they do to finesse the small stuff?

oldopelguy wrote: So keep raising the gas tax. Why is this difficult? Heck, they could as easily turn the gas tax into a percentage instead of a flat rate and no one would ever complain. Instead of 10 cents federal tax per gallon make it 6% or even 10% and it'll all work out in the end. Can I go on record right now as suggesting all politicians should be replaced with engineers for at least a couple of terms to get the world back on an even keel where things actually make sense? Then the Berkleyers can go back in and do whatever it is they do to finesse the small stuff?

Wasn't Herbert Hoover an engineer?

they can put a tracking device in my car after they shoot me... nough said..

How long would it take before they expand to issue speeding citations based on the GPS data? Mere minutes is my guess.... If you want to tax based upon mileage, then record odometer readings at registration time, or tax at registration time based upon vehicle size/mpg.

Either way I see plenty of room for fudging the results.

Oh and don't count on this REPLACING the gas tax, this would be in ADDITION to the existing tax.

16vCorey wrote: So as it stands, a guy with a Chevy diesel dually running veggie oil is putting the same wear and tear on the roads and the guy in a Chevy diesel dually running regular diesel, but the veggie oil guy isn't paying any taxes. Since the gas tax is supposed to go towards maintaining and building roads, it sort of makes sense that the more you use them the more you pay for them.

Well at least here is Wisconsin anybody using biofuels still gets taxed based on the volume of fuel that you use, even if you make it yourself. So i guess at least here you still pay the gas tax, but at least youd get a tax break for a "green" vehicle

jeffmx5 wrote: How long would it take before they expand to issue speeding citations based on the GPS data? Mere minutes is my guess.... If you want to tax based upon mileage, then record odometer readings at registration time, or tax at registration time based upon vehicle size/mpg. Either way I see plenty of room for fudging the results. Oh and don't count on this REPLACING the gas tax, this would be in ADDITION to the existing tax.

Precisely.

"We see that you exceeded the speed limit by 7 miler per hour on the 412 on ramp from Lincoln Street on your way to work this morning. We also noticed that on the 412 W to 244 S on-ramp you went higher than the 'recommended' speed for the corner......."

I do not like this idea in the slightest.

Buying another sport bike in a year or so would become pointless.

I don't think most people realize how close to a direct GPS link their current onboard ECU's are.

After allowing his tire pressure to get low on a recent trip, a friend got an email direct from Mercedes warning him that his car's warranty could be in jeopardy for not maintaining the correct tire pressure.

16vCorey wrote: On one hand I completely agree with Hess. On the other hand, I still kinda agree with Hess, but it kinda makes sense. Vehicles are being pushed towards alternate fuels and better efficiency. So as it stands, a guy with a Chevy diesel dually running veggie oil is putting the same wear and tear on the roads and the guy in a Chevy diesel dually running regular diesel, but the veggie oil guy isn't paying any taxes. Since the gas tax is supposed to go towards maintaining and building roads, it sort of makes sense that the more you use them the more you pay for them.

It is a federal offense to not pay tax on a motor fuel. If using veggie or biofuels you MUST pay the tax.

Dr. Hess wrote: Various market conditions are pushing us towards more fuel efficient vehicles. That means less gas, which means less gas tax, which means that the government has less money to give to their friends in pork. Add to that the eventual move off of gasoline/Diesel as a fuel source, most likely to nuclear generated electricity, and the prospects for increasing "revenue" from gas taxes looks dim.

So keep raising the gas tax. It has two benefits - it generates revenue AND it motivates people to buy more efficient vehicles (a policy platform fully embraced by Obama and the current Congress).

Yeah, at some point in the future, we'll all be in electric cars. When we get there, we can tax something else to change whatever other behavior we want to modify.

Adding a mileage tax doesn't do much other than cost us money. It doesn't change behavior in a positive way, other than a possible slight reduction in miles driven. It does increase crime (via attempts to roll-back odometers, or hack GPS trackers). And at the end of the day, probably doesn't raise much money.

That, and I'm at the point where I'm sick of being nickle and dimed to death. I'm a pretty average middle-class schlub. And I have to hire a berkeleying CPA to do my taxes. And can't make head nor tails of my cable and cell phone bills. It's ridiculous. Flat Tax, Fair Tax, or whatever - I don't object to paying my fair share, I just want to know what that fair share is, and know when/where/why I'm paying it.

SVreX wrote: I don't think most people realize how close to a direct GPS link their current onboard ECU's are. After allowing his tire pressure to get low on a recent trip, a friend got an email direct from Mercedes warning him that his car's warranty could be in jeopardy for not maintaining the correct tire pressure.

That is some scary stuff SVreX.

Crowd control scientists are already using cellphones to track crowd movement and density. My bet is they could track just about anyone, and already are, using cellphones. Most everyone has one and they're as personal as a wallet.

Snowdoggie wrote:

oldopelguy wrote: Can I go on record right now as suggesting all politicians should be replaced with engineers for at least a couple of terms to get the world back on an even keel where things actually make sense?

Wasn't Herbert Hoover an engineer?

Yes.

Putting engineers in charge would be an absolute disaster. And I say that from the perspective of actually being one.

Ya'll know that your new-fangled cell phones all report exactly where you are, right?

Oh, and certain governmental bodies currently do write you a speeding ticket based on your times between toll booths if you use the auto-pay thingies. Was it New York or Taxachussettes? I'm pretty sure the UK does.

Crackmonkey, call up the cell phone people and get them to explain it to you. I've bugged the hell out of them to get ten cents back. Probably cost them five dollars to do it. But they stopped screwing me out of that ten cents.

Who was it that forecasted a time when everyone has a number on their right hand or forehead (I suppose if they didn't have a right hand) and no one can buy anything without it?

ignorant wrote:

16vCorey wrote: On one hand I completely agree with Hess. On the other hand, I still kinda agree with Hess, but it kinda makes sense. Vehicles are being pushed towards alternate fuels and better efficiency. So as it stands, a guy with a Chevy diesel dually running veggie oil is putting the same wear and tear on the roads and the guy in a Chevy diesel dually running regular diesel, but the veggie oil guy isn't paying any taxes. Since the gas tax is supposed to go towards maintaining and building roads, it sort of makes sense that the more you use them the more you pay for them.

It is a federal offense to not pay tax on a motor fuel. If using veggie or biofuels you MUST pay the tax.

Sure, but how many people actually do it?

And on the subject of GPS, that's one of the MANY reasons that I don't drive new cars or own a cell phone.

16vCorey wrote:

ignorant wrote:

16vCorey wrote: On one hand I completely agree with Hess. On the other hand, I still kinda agree with Hess, but it kinda makes sense. Vehicles are being pushed towards alternate fuels and better efficiency. So as it stands, a guy with a Chevy diesel dually running veggie oil is putting the same wear and tear on the roads and the guy in a Chevy diesel dually running regular diesel, but the veggie oil guy isn't paying any taxes. Since the gas tax is supposed to go towards maintaining and building roads, it sort of makes sense that the more you use them the more you pay for them.

It is a federal offense to not pay tax on a motor fuel. If using veggie or biofuels you MUST pay the tax.

Sure, but how many people actually do it?

http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2007/03/01/news/local_news/1021491.txt

oldopelguy wrote: Can I go on record right now as suggesting all politicians should be replaced with engineers for at least a couple of terms to get the world back on an even keel where things actually make sense?

Why would you do that to engineers? What did we do to you?

SVreX wrote: I don't think most people realize how close to a direct GPS link their current onboard ECU's are. After allowing his tire pressure to get low on a recent trip, a friend got an email direct from Mercedes warning him that his car's warranty could be in jeopardy for not maintaining the correct tire pressure.

And very few people understand what info is available on them just when they search the web.

There's an ECU in my Rx-7? Really? Where? Is it in the manual-choke equipped carburetor?

I turn my cell phone (that's 5 years old and has no camera or any other BS) off when I travel. I don't like being tracked by anybody or anything.

We could always MegaSquirt everything and throw the factory ECU's away. I know people that do that NOW (especially on GM OnStar stuff...).

If they want to put a GPS in every car, they'll have to outlaw wire cutters first.

Tommy Suddard wrote: If they want to put a GPS in every car, they'll have to outlaw wire cutters first.

Not really. What Mass. wants to do is put an RFID chip in the inpection sticker. It's passive, so there's no battery or wires involved; it works on any car regardless of age or sophistication; and it can be read by roadside trackers or handheld devices. Should the state choose to do so, they could tag you for speeding long after you've done it or record where you are and where you've been. It's only a proposal at this point and the for/against ratio among MA polichickens is 50/50, but it scares me to no end. Plus the governor has gone full retard on other taxes too (proposed gas tax hike to $0.61, highest in the nation, and the state is suing a CT tire chain to collect the 5% MA use tax in its NH stores. NH does not have a sales/use tax, nor do they enforce MA's).

I like living here and I don't mind paying taxes IF they go towards programs that benefit me and my family - like education; MA has good schools - but at this point the state is using the citizens as a revenue stream to pay for its incompetance. If the mileage tax passes and the RFID chips are instituted, I'm leaving the state ASAP.