Military Guys

What do you all expect from us civilians? I'm specifically asking about the "thank you for your service" stuff. I don't ever say this because I think it's generic and cheap (and other reasons as well). Instead I tend to treat vets I meet as just normal people who have chosen a dangerous career, like crab fishermen or lion tamers.

I'd like to know what the veterans think of this, because I never know what you guys would like me to say.

DaewooOfDeath wrote: What do you all expect from us civilians? I'm specifically asking about the "thank you for your service" stuff. I don't ever say this because I think it's generic and cheap (and other reasons as well). Instead I tend to treat vets I meet as just normal people who have chosen a dangerous career, like crab fishermen or lion tamers. I'd like to know what the veterans think of this, because I never know what you guys would like me to say.

Good question. I was out with a Marine buddy once for dinner, and he was in his dress blues (I think that's what they are called) and a guy came up, thanked him for keeping us safe, and bought him dinner. My buddy thanked him, but it made him really uncomfortable. He said he doesn't like it when people do it.

Who knows.

Joey

I think what is expected and what is preferred are two completely different animals.

My full time job, I have many coming through that I train. I enjoy hearing their stories, so I just listen. My other job is in a surplus store. After their done shopping, a thank you for your service, and their off.

Wifey is a flight attendant and has been seeing many coming home. Similar situation. "Thank you for your service." What more can be expected. I have nothing else to give.

I don't mind it on Veteran's Day, 9/11, or Pearl Harbor Day. Or if I'm hanging out in the VFW. Most of the guys I talk to say that if they're just wearing the unit hat that they're only really interested in swapping stories with others from the same/similar units. If they're in full uniform though, they expect that it will happen and most try not to be uncomfortable about it.

Honestly, treat me how you want to be treated. No more . . . no less.

But then again, I'm not one of those hardened infantry guys either. I just taught soldiers how to drive trucks, finish the mission and come back in one piece.

DaewooOfDeath wrote: Instead I tend to treat vets I meet as just normal people who have chosen a dangerous career, like crab fishermen or lion tamers.

Unlike crab fishermen or lion tamers, service members have chosen a potentially dangerous career in the service of the nation, with significant legal restrictions on their rights and freedoms, and under elected civilian control. They have done so in part because they felt the job must be done.

Fishermen see their families pretty often. A lot of servicemembers don't.

Lion tamers can quit on the spot. Soldiers can't.

It's a bit strange to have someone say "Thank you for your service", but I don't mind it. I don't expect it. I do kind of like the occasional recognition in groups, when the MC asks the veterans to stand.

One thing: Parades. I hated marching, especially in large units, and even more so in parades. If you're involved in planning one, how about letting the servicemen ride for once?

Keep it low key. I've had a few people gush at me and it's very uncomfortable.

Just treat us like anyone else. If you say thanks, just say 'thank you for service'.

slantvaliant wrote:

DaewooOfDeath wrote: Instead I tend to treat vets I meet as just normal people who have chosen a dangerous career, like crab fishermen or lion tamers.

Unlike crab fishermen or lion tamers, service members have chosen a potentially dangerous career in the service of the nation, with significant legal restrictions on their rights and freedoms, and under elected civilian control. They have done so in part because they felt the job must be done. Fishermen see their families pretty often. A lot of servicemembers don't. Lion tamers can quit on the spot. Soldiers can't. It's a bit strange to have someone say "Thank you for your service", but I don't mind it. I don't expect it. I do kind of like the occasional recognition in groups, when the MC asks the veterans to stand. One thing: Parades. I hated marching, especially in large units, and even more so in parades. If you're involved in planning one, how about letting the servicemen ride for once?

I emphasized chosen because we have an entirely volunteer military. I would be much more comfortable lauding a draftee for sacrifice.

There's also some deeper issues I have with this, but I don't want to piss people off. I say this as someone who would have been military if not for a string of knee injuries, btw.

There are the vets that wear hats, and those that don't.

I don't. I don't advertise that I'm a veteran, don't brag about it, don't want you to buy me a cup of coffee or to feel that you have to thank me for what I did. Not even on Veterans Day. I did what I did, and I'm done now.

The hat wearers do want to be thanked, or at least acknowledged. Especially when they are marching around on Veterans Day and such. Fine. Throw them a salute and congratulate them.

Drewsifer wrote: Keep it low key. I've had a few people gush at me and it's very uncomfortable. Just treat us like anyone else. If you say thanks, just say 'thank you for service'.

There's wisdom there. It's nice to be appreciated, but if someone goes too hard, I start thinking of people who really deserve thanks and aren't around to receive them, or folks that suffered through much more harrowing periods of service than I did.

Whatever you do, don't assume you know their political or social leanings. The military draws all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds; we don't all think the same.

I feel kind of young to be called a veteran, so it is strange to have people thanking me like that. I don't expect it, and it usually makes me feel uncomfortable. I also tend to dislike the people that imply, "You volunteered and are probably stupid, why should I thank you? It's not like you were drafted." I don't really care for being thanked, but I'll take that over someone being a dickhead any day.

I travel a lot, and that is where I run into active military the most. I don't verbally thank anyone or shake their hand, I figure that they wanted to do that job and they know that they are doing it to protect the rest of us and didn't do it for any praise. I do however pick up a lunch tab, give up my seat and take the next flight, take my bags out of the overhead so their backpack has a spot...stuff like that. I am on an expense account, these men and women are not. I figure that after getting shot at and dodging IEDs for 6 months, eating MREs, then sitting on a long flight home from the middle east, the last thing a soldier needs it to get bumped from their last flight home. And if you are about to go off and defend my way of life, at least you can have one decent meal before you go on the house, and keep your stuff close by on the flight.

rotard wrote: I feel kind of young to be called a veteran, so it is strange to have people thanking me like that. I don't expect it, and it usually makes me feel uncomfortable. I also tend to dislike the people that imply, "You volunteered and are probably stupid, why should I thank you? It's not like you were drafted." I don't really care for being thanked, but I'll take that over someone being a dickhead any day.

Not what I was implying. I was implying that you were smart enough to know the risks/rewards and, after making the calculation as to what is and isn't important to you, enlisted as a career choice.

The entire thing just feels icky. Does it offend anybody if I just treat veterans like everybody else?

Best civilian encounter: Me and three guys were TDY (business trip for you civilian types), decided to eat at a well recommended local steakhouse. Ended up chatting with the couple next to us, gave them some of our asparagas. Went to pay, found out they had picked up the tab. Easily over $300 bucks.

Worst: Generic babykiller/part of the problem protesters.

I'd appreciate more of the former and less of the latter, please (but all that's expected is basic human kindness).

DaewooOfDeath wrote:

rotard wrote: I feel kind of young to be called a veteran, so it is strange to have people thanking me like that. I don't expect it, and it usually makes me feel uncomfortable. I also tend to dislike the people that imply, "You volunteered and are probably stupid, why should I thank you? It's not like you were drafted." I don't really care for being thanked, but I'll take that over someone being a dickhead any day.

Not what I was implying. I was implying that you were smart enough to know the risks/rewards and, after making the calculation as to what is and isn't important to you, enlisted as a career choice. The entire thing just feels icky. Does it offend anybody if I just treat veterans like everybody else?

Why would it offend anybody? I'm not sure why it would feel icky? It's basically thanking someone for volunteering to serve, so that the draft isn't reinstated. If it feels icky to you, don't do it. As said, most of us really don't care and feel kind of uncomfortable with the fake gushy stuff. I actually prefer being treated like anyone else. Unless you're an shiny happy person and treat everyone like crap.

For what it's worth, I'm also one of those weekend warrior types that only goes to war for one year every five years or so.

Some veterans expect hero worship, or at least one of them I know does. I treat him like a normal person and I've gotten some static for that.

As for why it feels icky ...

A) If I meet a veteran I have no idea if he rushed into burning buildings to save children or if he worked at Abu Ghraib. I don't know if he repaired toilets or disarmed IEDs. Just assuming that veteran = heroic (in the case of the gushers) or evil (in the case of the part of the problem protesters) strikes me as unforgivably stupid.

Many veterans did do heroic things. I would love to shake General Petraeus' hand, for example. The guys who secured neighborhood by neighborhood and made the Sunni Awakening possible, mad props. The ladies and gentlemen who helped the Libyans get rid of Col. Qaddafi, excellent work.

But on the other hand, if I saw this bitch walking down the street I would be seriously tempted to spit in her face. http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/abu-ghraib-leashtweaked.jpg

B) The notion of treating soldiers like martyrs seems to be both silly and insulting. If I assume veterans were mature and smart enough to choose their professions (and I do make this assumption), it seems insulting to treat them as unwitting victims when they get hurt or killed. They were brave, they were often heroic but they also knew what they were getting into.

C) It is impossible for me to know, at least not without asking, why any individual soldier decided to join the service. Is it for a higher cause? Is it patriotic feeling? Is it money? Is it a career move? Is it for college? Is it family pressure? Is it a lifelong dream? I have no idea.

This puts me in a tough spot when it comes time to answer the question "what am I thanking this person for?"

D) One of the things about joining the forces is that you put yourself at the disposal of your fellow citizens. If I were a serviceman, I would feel that my fellow citizens had wasted my efforts and sacrifices in a great many areas over the last 15 years. This is solely my opinion, but it makes the question of what exactly the thank you should mean even more complicated, especially since I don't know what the actual veteran in front of me feels.

Every time I see a "thanks for your service", or a completely sincere apology for not "capitalizing the M in Marines" in an otherwise normal thread, it makes me think that you guys over there are just a little bit insane.

Not saying you shouldn't respect someone for signing on to do a nasty job that nobody else wants because s/he thinks it has to get done, but nobody else in the world acts all cultist & Huxleyan about it like that. It looks really odd to an outsider.

I think it's a bit over done... especially when I think back to how we were received when I came home from overseas

I was sorta shocked/pleased when I heard it the first time (from my best friend.... totally unexpected ), but now after hundreds and hundreds of times ...

wbjones wrote: I think it's a bit over done...

better that than the response to troops returning from vietnam

As a Retired Servicemember and veteran, all this is new to me. Nothing like what is happening now occurred back in the 70's when I enlisted. Circumstances led to it being a career. And can be said still serving as I am civil service supporting the troops. Makes me a bit uncomfortable to hear "thanks for your service". I don't count myself as a current vet although I did visit troops in Kuwait & Afghanistan a few months ago. Short trip, only 10 days. I travel a lot visiting troops and issuing new equipment to them for their deployments and visiting manufacturers making the new equipment making sure it fits the needs of the troops. Don't mind small recognition on veterans day.

I always feel a little guilty when someone thanks me. (7 years US Navy)

I spent 2 and a half years in San Diego, and then 4 years in Hawaii.

I did do a Western Pacific Deployment, but really, it was peace time (1988), we were over near Soul South Korea during the Olympics, just to make sure nothing happened. Nothing happened and we just drove the ship around for the most part (there was the Lombok Straights crisis, but that was only like 20 minutes of trouble)

So I always feel a little awkward when people thank me. I usually just say "Sure" and try to change the subject.

DaewooOfDeath wrote: Some veterans expect hero worship, or at least one of them I know does. I treat him like a normal person and I've gotten some static for that. As for why it feels icky ... A) If I meet a veteran I have no idea if he rushed into burning buildings to save children or if he worked at Abu Ghraib. I don't know if he repaired toilets or disarmed IEDs. Just assuming that veteran = heroic (in the case of the gushers) or evil (in the case of the part of the problem protesters) strikes me as unforgivably stupid. Many veterans did do heroic things. I would love to shake General Petraeus' hand, for example. The guys who secured neighborhood by neighborhood and made the Sunni Awakening possible, mad props. The ladies and gentlemen who helped the Libyans get rid of Col. Qaddafi, excellent work. But on the other hand, if I saw this bitch walking down the street I would be seriously tempted to spit in her face. http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/abu-ghraib-leashtweaked.jpg B) The notion of treating soldiers like martyrs seems to be both silly and insulting. If I assume veterans were mature and smart enough to choose their professions (and I do make this assumption), it seems insulting to treat them as unwitting victims when they get hurt or killed. They were brave, they were often heroic but they also knew what they were getting into. C) It is impossible for me to know, at least not without asking, why any individual soldier decided to join the service. Is it for a higher cause? Is it patriotic feeling? Is it money? Is it a career move? Is it for college? Is it family pressure? Is it a lifelong dream? I have no idea. This puts me in a tough spot when it comes time to answer the question "what am I thanking this person for?" D) One of the things about joining the forces is that you put yourself at the disposal of your fellow citizens. If I were a serviceman, I would feel that my fellow citizens had wasted my efforts and sacrifices in a great many areas over the last 15 years. This is solely my opinion, but it makes the question of what exactly the thank you should mean even more complicated, especially since I don't know what the actual veteran in front of me feels.

There is a simple solution for a person such as yourself. Just don't worry about it and proceed with your day. You are putting way to much thought into something you are "icky" about. As to judging someone as to why they went in, that's a totally different subject.

I'm going in because I tried a career in the automotive industry, couldn't see myself doing that in the future. So I decided to look around for a job relating to my Bachelor's degree. Found one and it's not my cup of tea. ZOMG someone with and education is going in as an enlisted man!!! Anyways, going into the military is something that I've always wanted to do and the opportunity presented itself at the right time. My AFSC is great and will give me the opportunity to land an awesome civilian job once my service is up, unless I want to have a military career.

I see it as a great opportunity to make myself better, give myself more opportunities in the future, an opportunity to serve this country, and do something I've always wanted to do. Judging someone for volunteering is ridiculous.

On that note, I'm excited and can't wait to start this new adventure in my life. Less than a month until I leave for BMT. You don't have to thank me, just offer me a beer by the pool the next time I'm at the GRM Challenge :)

Jay wrote: Every time I see a "thanks for your service", or a completely sincere apology for not "capitalizing the M in Marines" in an otherwise normal thread, it makes me think that you guys over there are just a little bit insane. Not saying you shouldn't respect someone for signing on to do a nasty job that nobody else wants because s/he thinks it has to get done, but nobody else in the world acts all cultist & Huxleyan about it like that. It looks really odd to an outsider.

It's guilt about how my parents' generation treated Vietnam veterans combined with the fact there are so few soldiers that actual servicemen are rare, amazing things now.

But yah, the Huxleyan angle has become apparent too, the longer I live overseas. There's also this http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/06/17/sure_you_re_a_vet_but_that_doesn_t_mean_you_have_license_to_act_like_a_jerk

Dirtybird. Good luck. It seems like you picked a good time to join and the military is a good career move. I hope it works out for you.

JoeyM wrote:

wbjones wrote: I think it's a bit over done...

better that than the response to troops returning from vietnam

wbjones wrote: especially when I think back to how we were received when I came home from overseas

that was my reference

My son is a Marine. He has been to Iraq twice. We sent cookies to two young men this year, one in the Air Force, one an MP in the Army. I try to say thanks when I see someone in uniform.